Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind (Merged)
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
Sorry, it's them that are going insolvent and they have commenced liquidation proceedings through the Corporate Recovery and Insolvency Practisioners Andrew Michaels & Co. Ltd dated 23rd December 2005.
Loads of other paper work regarding creditors etc and insolvency acts.
Sorry to keep you waiting for the info
Pugs
Loads of other paper work regarding creditors etc and insolvency acts.
Sorry to keep you waiting for the info
Pugs
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
If the business is up for sale then I expect somebody will ride in as a "white knight" to buy it as a going concern for the :-
1. FTO approvals for CPL Modular flying
2. JAR approvals for CPL Modular GS
3. RF approvals for PPL
4. Cash Flow from existing commercial and pleasure flying work that must have been sold as gift vouchers
5. The Waddington Airshow FY06 Contract
At this rate I'll be the last helicopter in the hangar in Sheffield ...
h-r
NB What is Rep Power and is being a "2" good ???
1. FTO approvals for CPL Modular flying
2. JAR approvals for CPL Modular GS
3. RF approvals for PPL
4. Cash Flow from existing commercial and pleasure flying work that must have been sold as gift vouchers
5. The Waddington Airshow FY06 Contract
At this rate I'll be the last helicopter in the hangar in Sheffield ...
h-r
NB What is Rep Power and is being a "2" good ???
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
Classic case - file insolvency on Dec 23rd just as legal system shuts down for at least 2 weeks. Complete b****rds. Go for the Directors of the company - find their home addresses with a simple Companies House search for about £4 - get them for trading whilst knowingly insolvent. Give 'em grief.
And watch our for the phoenix rising from the ashes as one of the directors tries to buy the residue from the Administrator : "Dragon (2006) Ltd" no doubt.
And watch our for the phoenix rising from the ashes as one of the directors tries to buy the residue from the Administrator : "Dragon (2006) Ltd" no doubt.
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
I have worked freelance for a very long time, both in helicopters and elsewhere. Not getting paid within the agreed terms when there is no doubt that services have been provided OK has always made me mad. I guess that I have developed some rules for myself:
1. Don't just have 1 customer & do keep looking for additional sources of work. Be choosy about who you work for, if you can.
2. If a customer starts to pay late, chase the money early, don't let the debt build up to one that you cannot afford to lose. The suggestion about small claims is a good idea: it gets easier once you have done it once. A winding-up order (see 1 of Whirlygig's posts) is a powerful weapon.
3. Keep your ear close to the ground, and keep an eye on the way that the business is going. I have given up on several outfits (having got paid all they owe me) and they have gone bust a short while after.
4. If a customer operates routinely as a late payer, find a new customer. As a sole trader you only need to find enough work for one person. I naturally gravitate to my customers who are better payers - it keeps my blood-pressure controlled and might even be noticed!
5. Never forget you are NOT an employee.
6. In a moment of anger, don't cut off your nose to spite your face...........
I have not yet tried the charging interest option, which I now believe is available, but the idea makes me feel good
[I know nothing about Dragon]
1. Don't just have 1 customer & do keep looking for additional sources of work. Be choosy about who you work for, if you can.
2. If a customer starts to pay late, chase the money early, don't let the debt build up to one that you cannot afford to lose. The suggestion about small claims is a good idea: it gets easier once you have done it once. A winding-up order (see 1 of Whirlygig's posts) is a powerful weapon.
3. Keep your ear close to the ground, and keep an eye on the way that the business is going. I have given up on several outfits (having got paid all they owe me) and they have gone bust a short while after.
4. If a customer operates routinely as a late payer, find a new customer. As a sole trader you only need to find enough work for one person. I naturally gravitate to my customers who are better payers - it keeps my blood-pressure controlled and might even be noticed!
5. Never forget you are NOT an employee.
6. In a moment of anger, don't cut off your nose to spite your face...........
I have not yet tried the charging interest option, which I now believe is available, but the idea makes me feel good
[I know nothing about Dragon]
Last edited by Helinut; 4th Jan 2006 at 17:38.
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
It would be illegal for anyone connected with Dragon to open up a new businesss witha similar name. PUGZI: did you register with moneyclaim.gov as I said ages ago?
If you have a lodged claim you may be able to get preferential treatment as a creditor. Unless the banks have got to the road pizza first.
If you have a lodged claim you may be able to get preferential treatment as a creditor. Unless the banks have got to the road pizza first.
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
Well, that all depends on the type of insolvency. From the extra Pugzi has added, it sounds like creditors liquidation (which suggests someone did go for the compulsory winding-up order that I mentioned).
Therefore, the order of preferential treatment in these cases is:
1. The liquidator!
2. The Government - outstanding PAYE, VAT etc.
3. Employees but only up to a prescribed limit (used to be £800 but I hope that's gone up since I last did this!). After that the balance gets lumped with trade creditors.
4. Those with a charge against the company i.e. any mortgages where a fixed assets has been charged as security e.g. a helicopter leasing company, banks.
5. Debenture holder (unlikely to be any)
6. Trade creditors
7. Ordinary share holders
All the other ordinary and trade creditors are pooled together and whatever funds are left after 1. to 5. above have been paid is "divvied" up, pro-rata, amongst the remainding creditors. No-one, at this stage, will get preferential treatment, whether they've already lodge a claim or not.
The only time this MIGHT make a difference is if the company goes into Administration. This is where an Insolvency Practitioner is brought in to try and save the company with a view to it trading again. Doesn't sound like Administration although perhaps this business should have called in the Administrators before the Creditors applied for Liquidation!
Liquidation is the winding-up of the company, the company (not necessarily the business - they are separate) will be killed. There cannot be any White Knights here - that would only happen if the company had gone for Administration.
The directors may or may not be disqualified from being company directors again; it depends on whether the courts find they were culpably negligent.
For those who care, Receivership is where a debenture holder or Mortgage holder wants to redeem their loan and so they go in an repossess the asset on which the debt was secured.
Cheers
Whirls
7. Ordinary share holders
Therefore, the order of preferential treatment in these cases is:
1. The liquidator!
2. The Government - outstanding PAYE, VAT etc.
3. Employees but only up to a prescribed limit (used to be £800 but I hope that's gone up since I last did this!). After that the balance gets lumped with trade creditors.
4. Those with a charge against the company i.e. any mortgages where a fixed assets has been charged as security e.g. a helicopter leasing company, banks.
5. Debenture holder (unlikely to be any)
6. Trade creditors
7. Ordinary share holders
All the other ordinary and trade creditors are pooled together and whatever funds are left after 1. to 5. above have been paid is "divvied" up, pro-rata, amongst the remainding creditors. No-one, at this stage, will get preferential treatment, whether they've already lodge a claim or not.
The only time this MIGHT make a difference is if the company goes into Administration. This is where an Insolvency Practitioner is brought in to try and save the company with a view to it trading again. Doesn't sound like Administration although perhaps this business should have called in the Administrators before the Creditors applied for Liquidation!
Liquidation is the winding-up of the company, the company (not necessarily the business - they are separate) will be killed. There cannot be any White Knights here - that would only happen if the company had gone for Administration.
The directors may or may not be disqualified from being company directors again; it depends on whether the courts find they were culpably negligent.
For those who care, Receivership is where a debenture holder or Mortgage holder wants to redeem their loan and so they go in an repossess the asset on which the debt was secured.
Cheers
Whirls
7. Ordinary share holders
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
Headsethair
I did go through moneyclaim and had the official reply from the said company through moneyclaim agreeing to the debt and agreeing when they would settle. Alas, they filed for liquidation before the payemnt due date.
Pugs
I did go through moneyclaim and had the official reply from the said company through moneyclaim agreeing to the debt and agreeing when they would settle. Alas, they filed for liquidation before the payemnt due date.
Pugs
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
I just checked and it has not even got on to the Companies House database as of this evening. Both Directors have local addresses and they each have several Directorships registered. I would not be at all surprised to see a Phoenix arise from the ashes. It has happened to me all too often, usually when we are owed many thousands.
Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
Good Luck Puqzi and a happy New Year!!
Hope you get atleast some money back.
PM me with your cv as we may have a future need for freelance pilots - as long as you don't mind flying charters out of Leeds!!
Hope you get atleast some money back.
PM me with your cv as we may have a future need for freelance pilots - as long as you don't mind flying charters out of Leeds!!
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thank you EESDL
EESDL
It's been a long while since someone made me smile and giggle. Sorry if you presumed I was a helicopter pilot, I am a pilot, or rather I was 6 years ago anyway. Now I just teach, I'm a ground instructor these days and try to help guys get their ATPL's or CPL's in Dragon's case. I teach fixed wing mainly, but Dragon were desperate for help on Met, Ops and Helicopter Perf (which i'm no expert on). I'm flattered and I thank you for making my evening.
Kind Regards
Pugs
It's been a long while since someone made me smile and giggle. Sorry if you presumed I was a helicopter pilot, I am a pilot, or rather I was 6 years ago anyway. Now I just teach, I'm a ground instructor these days and try to help guys get their ATPL's or CPL's in Dragon's case. I teach fixed wing mainly, but Dragon were desperate for help on Met, Ops and Helicopter Perf (which i'm no expert on). I'm flattered and I thank you for making my evening.
Kind Regards
Pugs
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Re: Dragon helicopters...make up your own mind
Pugs,
You may be interested to know that Dragon are "still trading" and looking for CPL students. From what I hear they are reshuffling the company and are looking to keep the same directors but getting rid of all the debts through liquidation which was on the old Dragon Helis company.
Who knows what is correct I am sure it will all come out in the end what really is happening - but I wish you luck in getting you money which was earnt fair and square
You may be interested to know that Dragon are "still trading" and looking for CPL students. From what I hear they are reshuffling the company and are looking to keep the same directors but getting rid of all the debts through liquidation which was on the old Dragon Helis company.
Who knows what is correct I am sure it will all come out in the end what really is happening - but I wish you luck in getting you money which was earnt fair and square
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Dragon Helicopters' CPL(H) Theory Course - Opinions please
Hi All
Does any one have experience of Dragon Helicopters' JAA CPL(H)Theoretical Knowledge Distance Learning Course?
From Dragon Helicopters' site:
'The course has been specially produced by Dragon Helicopters to fulfil the requirements of a Commercial Pilot’s Licence (Helicopters) course without need to take the thirteen ATPL(A) aeroplane examinations, which contain a lot of content irrelevant to the helicopter industry. The course leads to nine exams pertinent to helicopter VFR operations – no IFR elements are covered'.
I'm not so much interested in the pros and cons of CPL vs ATPL - this has been covered in another thread - more the quality of the course; standard of teaching, extent of help with any problems the student may have etc.
Any comments greatly appreciated
Thanks
Does any one have experience of Dragon Helicopters' JAA CPL(H)Theoretical Knowledge Distance Learning Course?
From Dragon Helicopters' site:
'The course has been specially produced by Dragon Helicopters to fulfil the requirements of a Commercial Pilot’s Licence (Helicopters) course without need to take the thirteen ATPL(A) aeroplane examinations, which contain a lot of content irrelevant to the helicopter industry. The course leads to nine exams pertinent to helicopter VFR operations – no IFR elements are covered'.
I'm not so much interested in the pros and cons of CPL vs ATPL - this has been covered in another thread - more the quality of the course; standard of teaching, extent of help with any problems the student may have etc.
Any comments greatly appreciated
Thanks
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Flapping Doctor
Check your PMs
zxcvbn
Although I've not had it specifically confirmed, Dragon have gone into Administration.
This is where Qualified Insolvency Practitioners go into a business with the aim of getting it back onto its feet. Receivership is where mortgage/bond holders (i.e. those who have loaned the company funds secured on their assets) want to realise the bond and therefore those assets which are secured need to be liquidated. Liquidation is the death of the company. Receivership can result in Liquidation (but not necessarily) but Administration is usually succesful in bringing about a turnaround in the company's affairs and usually involves restructuring the debt.
Cheers
Whirls
Check your PMs
zxcvbn
Although I've not had it specifically confirmed, Dragon have gone into Administration.
This is where Qualified Insolvency Practitioners go into a business with the aim of getting it back onto its feet. Receivership is where mortgage/bond holders (i.e. those who have loaned the company funds secured on their assets) want to realise the bond and therefore those assets which are secured need to be liquidated. Liquidation is the death of the company. Receivership can result in Liquidation (but not necessarily) but Administration is usually succesful in bringing about a turnaround in the company's affairs and usually involves restructuring the debt.
Cheers
Whirls
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The Sheffield Telegraph last week reported that the company is in liquidation but that they had only a few debts, and almost no assets.
One of the co-owners of the flying asset told me that the company is now trading as 'Dash Aviation' which was the name under which the AOC is operated and that it is business as usual.
So I guess you would have to check with them the status of the company and then establish details about the course.
NB welcome to Prune and your first post, Flapping Doctor (from Bristol...)
NNB I@m glad I've got past 666 posts without noticing, just like Kissmysquirrel did last week ...
One of the co-owners of the flying asset told me that the company is now trading as 'Dash Aviation' which was the name under which the AOC is operated and that it is business as usual.
So I guess you would have to check with them the status of the company and then establish details about the course.
NB welcome to Prune and your first post, Flapping Doctor (from Bristol...)
NNB I@m glad I've got past 666 posts without noticing, just like Kissmysquirrel did last week ...
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Yes, that sounds like Administration. The Limited Company is separate to the business; the company can be liquidated whilst the business can continue after restructuring.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls