MD Explorer
I agree if it had not been a NOTAR then the circumstances may have been different
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P A News,
Just for the record I am not employed by PAS, granted I have been, but am no longer.
4 days for an annual?
Would you care to supply the name of this Maintenance organisation, as that's pretty good going.
Didn't think it would take you long to bite, you still didn't say how much they pay you.
Just for the record I am not employed by PAS, granted I have been, but am no longer.
4 days for an annual?
Would you care to supply the name of this Maintenance organisation, as that's pretty good going.
Didn't think it would take you long to bite, you still didn't say how much they pay you.
Another bite. In fairness I could not just ignore it before or now.
***********
..... why do you keep stating the Annual on EHMS took 7 weeks?
***********
The aircraft went into Staverton in early August [the 8th if I recall correctly] and remained there until very late September. It went in with a stated intention of being there 7 week 'for an annual.'
Armed with that allegation and the surrounding furore I sat back and counted off my diary, personally checked the roof of the Royal London and news reports. I only went 'public' when the 7 weeks had expired - as the aircraft returned to service.
In the meantime I paid attention. I rang around. I acertained that NO ONE claimed to be able to undertake an Explorer annual in less than two weeks.
I asked a range of maintenance organisations what their times were and got a range of replies. Four days for an EC135 under favourable circumstances [they claim to have done it and I guess someone on this forum will be aware of the truth of that claim] but realistically a week for that and at least that for the 355/117 era machines. Yes, including the 145, its not new you know ....
All this I said.
The question I raised [and it is all still on line] was why 7 weeks? Especially as it appeared that another Explorer was in for a similar length of time. No one sent me a reply. I asked.
If you were 'personally involved with that check' you may well not be exactly independent.
No one has to read the rag. Most of it is no more than a compendium of emergency services news stories from around the World it is only the English audience from way west that has a twitch about the odd paragraphs that mention EXPLORER. One page in 28, if that. More than the aircraft truly deserves [for its market penetration] but still of interest.
Money? That is true I did not say how much. But then you have not posted your identity or your wage slip. You would find the answer destroyed your insinuation - but I am not going there anyway.
And why Macs? Why not one of the real, current, advertisers? Smoke screen?
At least they answered the maintenance questions and as a result got the positive Eurocopter viewpoint in print.
***********
..... why do you keep stating the Annual on EHMS took 7 weeks?
***********
The aircraft went into Staverton in early August [the 8th if I recall correctly] and remained there until very late September. It went in with a stated intention of being there 7 week 'for an annual.'
Armed with that allegation and the surrounding furore I sat back and counted off my diary, personally checked the roof of the Royal London and news reports. I only went 'public' when the 7 weeks had expired - as the aircraft returned to service.
In the meantime I paid attention. I rang around. I acertained that NO ONE claimed to be able to undertake an Explorer annual in less than two weeks.
I asked a range of maintenance organisations what their times were and got a range of replies. Four days for an EC135 under favourable circumstances [they claim to have done it and I guess someone on this forum will be aware of the truth of that claim] but realistically a week for that and at least that for the 355/117 era machines. Yes, including the 145, its not new you know ....
All this I said.
The question I raised [and it is all still on line] was why 7 weeks? Especially as it appeared that another Explorer was in for a similar length of time. No one sent me a reply. I asked.
If you were 'personally involved with that check' you may well not be exactly independent.
No one has to read the rag. Most of it is no more than a compendium of emergency services news stories from around the World it is only the English audience from way west that has a twitch about the odd paragraphs that mention EXPLORER. One page in 28, if that. More than the aircraft truly deserves [for its market penetration] but still of interest.
Money? That is true I did not say how much. But then you have not posted your identity or your wage slip. You would find the answer destroyed your insinuation - but I am not going there anyway.
And why Macs? Why not one of the real, current, advertisers? Smoke screen?
At least they answered the maintenance questions and as a result got the positive Eurocopter viewpoint in print.
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I must be really stupid but I can\'t actuallywork out what the problem is! London Hems lands in an uncontrolled environment ( as it has thousands of times befoore) and for the 3rd time in 18 years of operation picks up a bit of FOD. Is this news? I think not.
Vis a vis the argument between the MD camp and the Eurocopter camp, we are all losers. Eurocopter support is c**p, MD non-existent. For gods sake stop bickering amongst yourselves and pray that this p**s poor industry wakes up and realises that to fly requires 3 things:
1. Serviceable Airframe (thanks engineering)
2. Serviceable Pilot
3. Ongoing tech support ( no thanks to eurocopter/MD/Agusta etc etc
Vis a vis the argument between the MD camp and the Eurocopter camp, we are all losers. Eurocopter support is c**p, MD non-existent. For gods sake stop bickering amongst yourselves and pray that this p**s poor industry wakes up and realises that to fly requires 3 things:
1. Serviceable Airframe (thanks engineering)
2. Serviceable Pilot
3. Ongoing tech support ( no thanks to eurocopter/MD/Agusta etc etc
I'm not interested in the EC-MD slagging, but for the record quiche, our 135's last 3 annuals:-
2003............4 days inc. 100-hr SMI
2004............5 days inc. 400-hr
2005............4 days inc. C of A
Oh, and I don't work for them...or their sister company.
2003............4 days inc. 100-hr SMI
2004............5 days inc. 400-hr
2005............4 days inc. C of A
Oh, and I don't work for them...or their sister company.
Quiche: 8 days for a: 400/800/annual/CofA. On average 4 days for just an annual! Get real will you?
Old Git: speak for yourself, look at the EC135 availability stats year on year on year: on average its around 97%.
ECD do a superb support job on the whole.
Trouble is, they're stealing the market...where's the competition for replacement light twins now? They could take advantage of the monopoly and that would be worrying.....................
Old Git: speak for yourself, look at the EC135 availability stats year on year on year: on average its around 97%.
ECD do a superb support job on the whole.
Trouble is, they're stealing the market...where's the competition for replacement light twins now? They could take advantage of the monopoly and that would be worrying.....................
The competition is right here...
... and you will get their great customer support with it.
We are getting 4 of them.
... and you will get their great customer support with it.
We are getting 4 of them.
Last edited by BigMike; 6th Nov 2005 at 10:31.
Big Mike, 429
ppheli:
you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? or do you work for Eurocopter? Who said they were going to Europe...
Why dosn't the JAA take part in the US certification so it's approved by both at the same time? Wouldn't that make sense for everyone?
stas-fan:
Standby, will be talking to the person who pays the bills tonight.
I hope MD do make a comeback. The guys here were quite impressed with the Explorer, just lack of support at the time was the problem I think. Medical crew loved it for the large cabin.
NOTAR is a big plus for safety when landing on primary missions.
you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? or do you work for Eurocopter? Who said they were going to Europe...
Why dosn't the JAA take part in the US certification so it's approved by both at the same time? Wouldn't that make sense for everyone?
stas-fan:
Standby, will be talking to the person who pays the bills tonight.
I hope MD do make a comeback. The guys here were quite impressed with the Explorer, just lack of support at the time was the problem I think. Medical crew loved it for the large cabin.
NOTAR is a big plus for safety when landing on primary missions.
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BigMike. Thank you for your inaccurate analysis. Your signature states you are in the Czech republic, and your recent postings on page 76 of that amazing thread 'ROTORHEADS AROUND THE WORLD' : Photo Gallery (2nd November) show that you are in the Czech Republic and operating a Bell 427. It is thus quite reasonable to assume the company that employs you would quite likely want 429s to replace 427s so your "we are getting 4 of them" ties up nicely.
So, I then recall a conversation I had with a Bell employee at Helitech, who told me that deliveries were targetting FAA cert in 2007, EASA cert in 2008/9 being in mind the extra work for the IFR aspects, and thus likely European deliveries from 2009. It might well make sense for EASA/JAA (or whatever they are called this month) to team up with the FAA, but that sounds very radical for them, and even more for Bell.
Given that I have no links with Eurocopter or any other manufacturer at all, perhaps you will tell me which facts in my analysis are wrong. Is Bell wrong?? Why would they have quoted me bad dates if they have told you better ones? Maybe I'm not as high up the pecking order as your operation, given that you are a well established Bell customer
My conclusion from your analysis is that I must have got out of bed the wrong side.. funny that, my wife didn't tell me I crawled out over the top of her this morning
PS. Are they taking your 427s and 206LT in part exchange?
Edited for spelling misteak
Edited.
Please don't mention companies you suspect people work for. It's up to members to decide for themselves how much they wish to reveal about their employment.
Heliport
So, I then recall a conversation I had with a Bell employee at Helitech, who told me that deliveries were targetting FAA cert in 2007, EASA cert in 2008/9 being in mind the extra work for the IFR aspects, and thus likely European deliveries from 2009. It might well make sense for EASA/JAA (or whatever they are called this month) to team up with the FAA, but that sounds very radical for them, and even more for Bell.
Given that I have no links with Eurocopter or any other manufacturer at all, perhaps you will tell me which facts in my analysis are wrong. Is Bell wrong?? Why would they have quoted me bad dates if they have told you better ones? Maybe I'm not as high up the pecking order as your operation, given that you are a well established Bell customer
My conclusion from your analysis is that I must have got out of bed the wrong side.. funny that, my wife didn't tell me I crawled out over the top of her this morning
PS. Are they taking your 427s and 206LT in part exchange?
Edited for spelling misteak
Edited.
Please don't mention companies you suspect people work for. It's up to members to decide for themselves how much they wish to reveal about their employment.
Heliport
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
PA News;
Someone looking in from the outside, could get the impression that your actions are the sort that may be used for subversive means.
Making diary notes, watching helipads, phoning units on serviceabilities / downtimes and then making that information available to whoever calls!
Making such close notes on when Air Ambulances and Police Helicopters are offline is, IMHO, pretty suspicious and that sort of information in the wrong hands could lead to some very well timed incidents!!!
Who, if not Macs, does pay you?
SS
Armed with that allegation and the surrounding furore I sat back and counted off my diary, personally checked the roof of the Royal London and news reports. I only went 'public' when the 7 weeks had expired - as the aircraft returned to service.
In the meantime I paid attention. I rang around. I acertained that NO ONE claimed to be able to undertake an Explorer annual in less than two weeks.
I asked a range of maintenance organisations what their times were and got a range of replies. Four days for an EC135 under favourable circumstances [they claim to have done it and I guess someone on this forum will be aware of the truth of that claim] but realistically a week for that and at least that for the 355/117 era machines. Yes, including the 145, its not new you know ....
In the meantime I paid attention. I rang around. I acertained that NO ONE claimed to be able to undertake an Explorer annual in less than two weeks.
I asked a range of maintenance organisations what their times were and got a range of replies. Four days for an EC135 under favourable circumstances [they claim to have done it and I guess someone on this forum will be aware of the truth of that claim] but realistically a week for that and at least that for the 355/117 era machines. Yes, including the 145, its not new you know ....
Making diary notes, watching helipads, phoning units on serviceabilities / downtimes and then making that information available to whoever calls!
Making such close notes on when Air Ambulances and Police Helicopters are offline is, IMHO, pretty suspicious and that sort of information in the wrong hands could lead to some very well timed incidents!!!
Who, if not Macs, does pay you?
SS
ppheli:
Why the sarcastic tone in the first place? All I did was point out that the 429 will be an alternative to the 135 and the company I work for is purchasing 4. Why do you care when we get them? Our owner is on the advisory board for the 429, so maybe he knows a little more than others?
Some aircraft may, or may not, be based in Europe, but the future commercial operations of this company have nothing to do with anyone on this forum. I don't make a big secret about who I work for, but it's really up to me if I want to state that here thanks.
"inaccurate analysis" err, of what?
The Explorer hasn't got a large cabin? Having a NOTAR is not safer than a conventional tail-rotor when landing at crowded accident sites? or that the Explorer is not a good helicopter?
I have no bias to any make, just the best machine for the role. They are all fun to fly.
Why the sarcastic tone in the first place? All I did was point out that the 429 will be an alternative to the 135 and the company I work for is purchasing 4. Why do you care when we get them? Our owner is on the advisory board for the 429, so maybe he knows a little more than others?
Some aircraft may, or may not, be based in Europe, but the future commercial operations of this company have nothing to do with anyone on this forum. I don't make a big secret about who I work for, but it's really up to me if I want to state that here thanks.
"inaccurate analysis" err, of what?
The Explorer hasn't got a large cabin? Having a NOTAR is not safer than a conventional tail-rotor when landing at crowded accident sites? or that the Explorer is not a good helicopter?
I have no bias to any make, just the best machine for the role. They are all fun to fly.
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I wouldn't worry too much BM. Some people out there just like to knock what they don't know about simply because they see new types or superior types as a threat to there current ride. Others such as PANews have an obvious commercial interest in one particular manufacturer and will use any rumour or half truth to try and steer the unknowing into their mode of thinking.
For example, PAN has persistently stated that the London Hems machine was on an Annual for 7 weeks and the aircraft was delivered back to HEMS end of September. Well I checked today and the paperwork for the annual(a legal document) wasn't raised until the 5th of September. Given that this is normally done a week before the work commences and even with my rubbish maths I still can't see how he manages to make 7 weeks!!! This is prity typical of his way of spreading rumours. His next question will predictably be where was it for the other 4 weeks it was absent from the hospital roof. Well this is an answer only the HEMS team can answer.
I had a look at the 429 mock up at Helitech 05 and it sure does look a real competitor to the current EMS types available. 2008 is a long way off for certification but I'm sure we'll be hearing lots more about them in the mean time. BM, you could always stick them on an N reg if you couldn't wait.
Dr A
Just for the record I'm actually a big Eurocopter fan having worked on AS 355's and BO 105's for 10 years now and more recently a few EC135's. It's just MD knocking Eurocopter stooges I don't like!!!
For example, PAN has persistently stated that the London Hems machine was on an Annual for 7 weeks and the aircraft was delivered back to HEMS end of September. Well I checked today and the paperwork for the annual(a legal document) wasn't raised until the 5th of September. Given that this is normally done a week before the work commences and even with my rubbish maths I still can't see how he manages to make 7 weeks!!! This is prity typical of his way of spreading rumours. His next question will predictably be where was it for the other 4 weeks it was absent from the hospital roof. Well this is an answer only the HEMS team can answer.
I had a look at the 429 mock up at Helitech 05 and it sure does look a real competitor to the current EMS types available. 2008 is a long way off for certification but I'm sure we'll be hearing lots more about them in the mean time. BM, you could always stick them on an N reg if you couldn't wait.
Dr A
Just for the record I'm actually a big Eurocopter fan having worked on AS 355's and BO 105's for 10 years now and more recently a few EC135's. It's just MD knocking Eurocopter stooges I don't like!!!
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PAN
Thanks for the bite.
Gentlemen
Just for information, an Annual on a 135 is not really comparable to an annual/Periodic inspection on a 902. The way the maintenance programme from the manufacturer is written means that to compare like for like inspections would be: 135 800 Hr(yes I am aware that on calender time that is a Bi-annual).
Like Dr A, I too am a big Eurocopter fan, 4 of my 5 type ratings are on EC products.
Like wise, I also bite myself to PAN as it always seems to be a rather vindictive bashing that is put about with regard to the 902, which does, without doubt have faults as do various other types.
A little bit less of the constant knife might mean that a certain company in the mid-west would perhaps be a little more responsive to enquiries.
Thanks for the bite.
Gentlemen
Just for information, an Annual on a 135 is not really comparable to an annual/Periodic inspection on a 902. The way the maintenance programme from the manufacturer is written means that to compare like for like inspections would be: 135 800 Hr(yes I am aware that on calender time that is a Bi-annual).
Like Dr A, I too am a big Eurocopter fan, 4 of my 5 type ratings are on EC products.
Like wise, I also bite myself to PAN as it always seems to be a rather vindictive bashing that is put about with regard to the 902, which does, without doubt have faults as do various other types.
A little bit less of the constant knife might mean that a certain company in the mid-west would perhaps be a little more responsive to enquiries.
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Can anybody clarify the role of the Bell 427? It seems kind of odd to introduce the 429 when the 427 is capable of the same things (at least it seems very similar)? Will Bell stop production of the 427 after the launch of the 429, or?
It's certainly my impression that the 427 lives its life outside the limelight... How come? It seems like a pretty solid design...
Thanks
- M
It's certainly my impression that the 427 lives its life outside the limelight... How come? It seems like a pretty solid design...
Thanks
- M
I think the 429 is in response to the short comings of the 427, ie:
Not enough power (is there ever)
Rear cabin needs to be larger
Not certified IFR or true Cat A
Quite a bit of thought has gone in to the 429 and I think it will be successful, especially in the EMS role.
One of the good things about the 427 is it's relatively small size which enables us to land in tight spots close to the incident. The 429 is about the same size just a little taller.
For the pilot the 427 is really nice to fly with a normal cruise of about 125 kts at 85% Tq (100%Tq is Max Cont.) Believe it or not, the pilot seats are very comfortable. Thats right, Bell seats that don't screw up your back! It is very reliable helicopter too, with only the occasional glitch with avionics, and you have the great support from Bell. I enjoy flying it, but I've enjoyed every helicopter type I have flown, which has been a mixture of Robinson, MD, Bell, and Eurocopter.
Not enough power (is there ever)
Rear cabin needs to be larger
Not certified IFR or true Cat A
Quite a bit of thought has gone in to the 429 and I think it will be successful, especially in the EMS role.
One of the good things about the 427 is it's relatively small size which enables us to land in tight spots close to the incident. The 429 is about the same size just a little taller.
For the pilot the 427 is really nice to fly with a normal cruise of about 125 kts at 85% Tq (100%Tq is Max Cont.) Believe it or not, the pilot seats are very comfortable. Thats right, Bell seats that don't screw up your back! It is very reliable helicopter too, with only the occasional glitch with avionics, and you have the great support from Bell. I enjoy flying it, but I've enjoyed every helicopter type I have flown, which has been a mixture of Robinson, MD, Bell, and Eurocopter.