Bell 206: JetRanger and LongRanger
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sweden
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Stiff pedals!
Hello!
Need a little advice, I'm getting type rated on the 206 (BII and BIII). The problem is that in the BIII for some reason the pedals get unbelievably stiff when the rotor is turning. It feels pretty much like someone is pushing against me all the time (nope, it's not the instructor
).
Directional control is poor to say the least. Is this normal for the BIII model or is it some kind of rigging issue?
EDITED for cr***y spelling!
Need a little advice, I'm getting type rated on the 206 (BII and BIII). The problem is that in the BIII for some reason the pedals get unbelievably stiff when the rotor is turning. It feels pretty much like someone is pushing against me all the time (nope, it's not the instructor
).Directional control is poor to say the least. Is this normal for the BIII model or is it some kind of rigging issue?
EDITED for cr***y spelling!
Stiff pedals
Depends more on how old your BII is. The early ones had hydraulic pedal assistance as well as cyclic and collective. But in the mid 70's they did away with the pedal assist as it is frankly a bit of unnecessary luxury. It just needs firm but positive control.
So if you've done a lot of your training in the BII, then switched to the BIII, you would find the later model much less easy to control on the pedals.
Depends more on how old your BII is. The early ones had hydraulic pedal assistance as well as cyclic and collective. But in the mid 70's they did away with the pedal assist as it is frankly a bit of unnecessary luxury. It just needs firm but positive control.
So if you've done a lot of your training in the BII, then switched to the BIII, you would find the later model much less easy to control on the pedals.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Have the engineers check the self aligning feathering bearing in the tail rotor blades. I have seen them cracked and also corroded, although the corrosion was only evident once the blades were removed and the bearings could be viewed in full by rotating them. New bearings fixed the problem.
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I do believe that the bearings were changed but I'll check that with the engineers! The BII is from '75 and the BIII from '80. When the rotors are not turning the pedals feel completely normal so the theory about hydraulic assistance might be valid! Thanx everyone! 
Last edited by SierraEcho; 6th Feb 2008 at 10:11.
There are no limits
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shrewsbury, England.
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Bell 206 Revision B-49
Hi fellow Jet Rangers
Can I ask what configuration that you think you need to be in to exceed the latest limitation
i.e. less than 60 seconds at 77 to 88% N2 with torque greater than 33%
I understood what the previous limitation meant but this one must be really difficult to exceed.
Your constructive criticism will be most welcome !!
Can I ask what configuration that you think you need to be in to exceed the latest limitation
i.e. less than 60 seconds at 77 to 88% N2 with torque greater than 33%
I understood what the previous limitation meant but this one must be really difficult to exceed.
Your constructive criticism will be most welcome !!
Are you sure?
N2 77-88%
TQ >33%
Is this the latest revision for 206B C-20J or some other model maybe?
This one will be hard to get into indeed.
less than 60 seconds at 77 to 88% N2 with torque greater than 33%
TQ >33%
Is this the latest revision for 206B C-20J or some other model maybe?
This one will be hard to get into indeed.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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The parameters listed are what is stated for the C20 powered B206 as listed in the latest revision to the flight manual, B49 for B206B and I think it's revision 11 for the B206B3, the ASB associated with the parameters has been revised and the decal has also been changed as well. If you operate a Jetranger then you should have received and actioned this already.
Join Date: May 2006
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I may be talking complete 
but I was told it was something to do with a problem the military had discovered due to the way they perform their pre-flight run up procedures.......
However, I can't remember what the issue was or why it would bother us civi types!
SF
but I was told it was something to do with a problem the military had discovered due to the way they perform their pre-flight run up procedures.......However, I can't remember what the issue was or why it would bother us civi types!
SF
Join Date: Jan 2006
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i could see it happening in training if you were practicing left pedal failures...maybe if you drooped the rpm a little too early and didn't get it on the ground within 60 sec?
Join Date: Mar 2008
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We have just been through this with an L4 and been in touch with Bell and Rolls Royce to clarify the new procedure and limitation. As I understand it, there was an issue with the 407 that brought this about, and we now have the limitation to avoid continuous operations with this new range with the L4. Bell and Rolls Royce define continuous as longer than one minute.
You end up in this range while bringing gas generator to 70 per cent to bring the generator on-line. Previously, we stayed there while doing the preliminary hydraulics check and setting up avionics. Now, we come to 70 per cent, bring the generator on-line, and then roll back to idle. That gets us back below that range in less than a minute. When we have avionics squared away, we come up to 100 per cent for the hydraulics and anti-ice check, which causes us to move promptly thru the avoid continuous operation range. Bell is now teaching this procedure at their training academy.
We were initially concerned about having been in the avoid range for more than a minute prior to the new limitation and received the following clarification below.
George
The requirement to avoid continuous operation in the speed avoid range stems from some #3 wheel cracking issues we experienced on C47B engines operated in the Bell 407 several years ago. We have never experienced the the same #3 wheel cracks on C30P engines in Bell Longrangers BUT the #3 turbine wheel is the same part number and therefore is used in both engine/helicopter models. For this reason, the speed avoid range was applied to all C30 & C47 type engines.
In the case of the C47B, all turbines had their #3 wheels inspected in a campaign a couple years ago. Because the C30P has been around since 1976 and never had a cracking issue and we have reviewed many removed C30P #3 wheels, we have a very high degree of confidence in our decision not to make the one minute rule retroactive to wheels operated prior to the Speed Avoid Range release. This is a extra safety precaution that shall be followed from now on but we will not require it to be retroactive to past operations.
Best Regards,
Kevin P. GriggsRegional Mgr.NW USA,WCanada &JapanRolls-Royce Helicopter & Small Gas Turbine Engines
Office: 360-678-1154Fax: 360-678-0232 Cell: 360-239-9081E-Mail: [email protected]
You end up in this range while bringing gas generator to 70 per cent to bring the generator on-line. Previously, we stayed there while doing the preliminary hydraulics check and setting up avionics. Now, we come to 70 per cent, bring the generator on-line, and then roll back to idle. That gets us back below that range in less than a minute. When we have avionics squared away, we come up to 100 per cent for the hydraulics and anti-ice check, which causes us to move promptly thru the avoid continuous operation range. Bell is now teaching this procedure at their training academy.
We were initially concerned about having been in the avoid range for more than a minute prior to the new limitation and received the following clarification below.
George
The requirement to avoid continuous operation in the speed avoid range stems from some #3 wheel cracking issues we experienced on C47B engines operated in the Bell 407 several years ago. We have never experienced the the same #3 wheel cracks on C30P engines in Bell Longrangers BUT the #3 turbine wheel is the same part number and therefore is used in both engine/helicopter models. For this reason, the speed avoid range was applied to all C30 & C47 type engines.
In the case of the C47B, all turbines had their #3 wheels inspected in a campaign a couple years ago. Because the C30P has been around since 1976 and never had a cracking issue and we have reviewed many removed C30P #3 wheels, we have a very high degree of confidence in our decision not to make the one minute rule retroactive to wheels operated prior to the Speed Avoid Range release. This is a extra safety precaution that shall be followed from now on but we will not require it to be retroactive to past operations.
Best Regards,
Kevin P. GriggsRegional Mgr.NW USA,WCanada &JapanRolls-Royce Helicopter & Small Gas Turbine Engines
Office: 360-678-1154Fax: 360-678-0232 Cell: 360-239-9081E-Mail: [email protected]
Any 206 engineers around?
I've done about 5 hours in my 206, since it came out of restoration which included all major components zero timed - I guess you expect running in problems! It's got a slight oil leak from the seal from the gearbox to the T/r driveshaft. I've wiped most of the oil off, but you can still see some residue in the pic below.
But while spotting the weeping, I noticed that there are three threads on the housing that don't have nuts on. Should they have? See the pic (a third one is round the back). There are no shoulders to take nuts, but what are the threads for, if they aren't supposed to have nuts on?
Thnx
But while spotting the weeping, I noticed that there are three threads on the housing that don't have nuts on. Should they have? See the pic (a third one is round the back). There are no shoulders to take nuts, but what are the threads for, if they aren't supposed to have nuts on?
Thnx
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206Jock
All are like that, if you look closely you will see that the bearing support housing doesn't have a flat area where the washer and nut seat flush against it. Don't know why it has those protruding bolts there but I can tell you that it has always been like that, my question is how many of us fly these machines for years and don't notice those missing nuts?
But while spotting the weeping, I noticed that there are three threads on the housing that don't have nuts on. Should they have? See the pic (a third one is round the back). There are no shoulders to take nuts, but what are the threads for, if they aren't supposed to have nuts on?
Weeping oil.
Are you sure it is oil, as it looks like excessive grease spreading out from the splined coupling. If the seal was leaking oil would show there. Engineers are in the habit of moving the shaft to and fro to check freedom of movement this makes the grease migrate out of the splines.
Are you sure it is oil, as it looks like excessive grease spreading out from the splined coupling. If the seal was leaking oil would show there. Engineers are in the habit of moving the shaft to and fro to check freedom of movement this makes the grease migrate out of the splines.
It's definitely oil: you can't see in the pic, but it's welling up in the bottom of the bearing, then dribbling down and dropping off the bottom of the lower chip detector. PITA, but if that's the worst that happens in the break in, I'll consider myself lucky.
The Paravion heater wasn't working, but with a bit of judicious encouragement I managed to open the heater valve. Hot air then entered the cabin....along with 6 months of dust and s**t that were obviously in the pipes under the seat. Blew all over the chin bubbles. How I laughed!
Blender...thanks. I've flown one for 5 years and never noticed
The Paravion heater wasn't working, but with a bit of judicious encouragement I managed to open the heater valve. Hot air then entered the cabin....along with 6 months of dust and s**t that were obviously in the pipes under the seat. Blew all over the chin bubbles. How I laughed!
Blender...thanks. I've flown one for 5 years and never noticed
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Believe it or not Allison(now RR) have made the gearbox to fit multiple aircraft not just the Jetranger. There are some that use all the studs and some that don't, depending on the accessory or output fitted. Bell considered that they only needed to use three of the studs for their free wheel rear housing.(Not a heavy load bearing component)
The oil leak will probably not fix itself (wear in) there seems to be a bad batch of seals about at the moment, I went through 3 in my machine before there was no leak.
trackdirect
The oil leak will probably not fix itself (wear in) there seems to be a bad batch of seals about at the moment, I went through 3 in my machine before there was no leak.
trackdirect