Bell 206: JetRanger and LongRanger

[TukTuk BoomBoom]

Ive had turbines come back from overhauls smoking really badly and had the shop say "oh we only replace the lab seal not the abradable surface it runs on"...dumb-ass!
It is common practice to replace both as they run against each other.

As for Mobil 254 vs Jet 2.
Every 206 operator should turn the blades backwards even with 254. Although jet 2 cokes more than 254 the new generation oil hasnt eliminated this problem. Since you have to spin the blades to tie them down anyway why not go backwards and turn the power turbine lab seals as they cool.
Mobil 254 practically eliminated rear bearing coking in Arriels.
At the end of the day its up to whatever is most convienient, if you have a bell medium fleet as well youre probably going to run Jet 2 in everything else

Turbine cool-down times are set by the manufacturer because the rear bearings actually get hotter with longer rundowns due to reduced scavenging, especially on 60'c ramps.

Im not sure 555 oils should be used in the 206 gearbox, you can have oil transfer into the engine and no one recommends 555 oils in engines anymore. Ask Pratt and Whitney.
Just use whatevers in your engine in your gearbox in a 206, they arent delicate like 500 gearboxes

Anyone operating 250s 2 or 4 series, just get used to pulling the turbines out, they should come with camlocks.

[TukTuk BoomBoom]

I went up to one of our northern bases to work on a 206 straight L and was told by the departing engineer, "oh yeah the fuel low lights coming on early but at least its working"
So when the machine came back from its long flight over the tundra i looked at the gauge, 120lbs and low light on, i drained the fuel and found 11 litres remaining. Good for a few minutes at least.
I had never worked on an L before but its all first principals with fuel systems

In the long ranger the low light indicates actual fuel remaining at all times!
The fact that early s/n Jetrangers dont have low fuel lights is almost criminal.

[paco]

"In the long ranger the low light indicates actual fuel remaining at all times!"

Wrong!

IF THE LOW FUEL LIGHT COMES ON IN THE L IT MAY BE BECAUSE THE FUEL IS NOT BEING TRANSFERRED FROM THE FRONT TANKS.

DO NOT P*SS AROUND WITH IT!!!

Sorry for shouting, but the low fuel light can come on even if you have stacks of fuel, but it won't be in the rear tanks where the pumps are. The Flight Manual says "Plan Your Landing" when it comes on. It is not kidding.

Phil

[TukTuk BoomBoom]

Yeah Phil i think thats what i said.
Like i said you can have 120lbs indicated but if it isnt transfering you can still run out of gas.
Low fuel lite means actual low fuel condition at all times.
We're saying the same thing.

[paco]

Well, OK, nearly. I'm just concerned that nobody should start off with full tanks, then get a fuel low light in a very short time and ignore it. In the L, it is not a spurious warning!

Phil

[Aesir]

The fact that early s/n Jetrangers dont have low fuel lights is almost criminal.

Just to set the record straight if someone´s reading this who does not know the JetRanger.

There is no fwd fuel tank in JetRanger so a "low fuel light" warning is not AS important as in the L model.

However I agree that it would be nice to have low fuel warning light but one can not count on those anyway but still nice to have as additional warning just not as critical as in the LongRanger.

I fly a AB206BII 1971 model.

[KikoLobo]

Originally Posted by Aesir

Just to set the record straight if someone´s reading this who does not know the JetRanger.
There is no fwd fuel tank in JetRanger so a "low fuel light" warning is not AS important as in the L model.
I fly a AB206BII 1971 model.

Well... The "Low Fuel Light" in a Jet ranger is AS serious as in any other aircraft that you get a 'Low Fuel Light".

Since there are separate sensors.. one is float that goes to the fuel indicator and the other is a float switch that will trigger the low fuel light, having a low fuel light is a land as soon as possible light, unless you are getting consistent readings from the indicator and the low fuel light, in which case you can device a plan with your fuel remaining (axample: 17 gallons, or 20 gallons depending on the model of your helicopter).

BUT if you have a full tank indication and get a light, you have to believe the worst case scenario.... in which case is the light... Which is a backup indicator from the other.....

If you are getting consistent burn times of fuels and then you get a light, how do you know that your float is propperly calibrated?

If you are getting a very low fuel indication and you don't get a light, which one would you believe??? I thought so... You will believe your indicator, or the worst case scenario... how serious do you treat the problem depends on the circumstances.... You get a low fuel indication minutes after you got full tank indication and you are not getting a warning light, then its probably the indicator, but you have to land soon to make sure... At least it would be a smart decision..... i would not land in a jungle with crocodriles, etc.. but i would land soon.

But you have to take action allways...

Do you have a leak?

What about calibration problems?

The point is its allways dependant on how you get this light, but IT allways means BAD NEWS, and it allways demand a plan of action. SO ITS SERIOUS ENOUGH in my opinion......

Again this is only my opinion...

[Patrick_Waugh]

Question for a B206 BIII driver

Hi,

I have the manual and checklists, but just want to confirm something as I'm modeling it.

First, starting cold & dark, when you get to the point of throwing on the Battery switch (assuming a Battery start), and both the Low RRPM and Engine out annunciators light up (along with with others per manual), and the audio warnings go off. Correct?

So, you press the warning horn mute, and continue with the caution light test button and verify working lights, and test the TOT light if equiped.

Then you check the Low RRPM by pulling collective, but it says that this does not apply if the warning horn mute is installed. Is this because if you have pushed the mute, pulling the collective will not currently activate the warning horn?

I am wondering, if you are doing a battery cart start, are they going to come on as soon as you plug in the cart?

Is once you push the starter, and begin the start are any of the warning horns going to come back on during the start (assuming no abnormal conditions like going above 55% N1, and then losing the engine).

And my last pesky question is when you initiate shutdown, and close the throtle, which of the warning horns come on and when if any.

Thanks =)

Patrick

[Gomer Pylot]

From (perhaps faulty, from the distant past) memory:

First, starting cold & dark, when you get to the point of throwing on the Battery switch (assuming a Battery start), and both the Low RRPM and Engine out annunciators light up (along with with others per manual), and the audio warnings go off. Correct?

Correct.

So, you press the warning horn mute, and continue with the caution light test button and verify working lights, and test the TOT light if equiped.

Then you check the Low RRPM by pulling collective, but it says that this does not apply if the warning horn mute is installed. Is this because if you have pushed the mute, pulling the collective will not currently activate the warning horn?

Yes. Once you mute the horn, it stays muted, until you activate it by increasing RPM.

I am wondering, if you are doing a battery cart start, are they going to come on as soon as you plug in the cart?

Yes, the cart and the battery are the same, as far as a BIII knows.

Is once you push the starter, and begin the start are any of the warning horns going to come back on during the start (assuming no abnormal conditions like going above 55% N1, and then losing the engine).

Not that I recall.

And my last pesky question is when you initiate shutdown, and close the throtle, which of the warning horns come on and when if any.

None. The low rotor horn shouldn't come on here.

If my memory is faulty, someone will surely correct me. It has been many years since I flew a 206, and I don't claim total recall. The ones I flew didn't have the mute button in any case, and the low rpm horn didn't come on on the ground.

[IHL]

I fly an old 206 BII.
On shutdown when the throttle is rolled back to idle the low rotor horn comes on.

It has been +15 years since I have flown a BIII, and I think they had an engine out horn which came on during shut down.

[Dis-Mystery of Lift]

Pesky Warning Horns!!!We pop the Caution Circuit breaker on Start up and shut down.Makes punters jump when they come on.Push circuit breaker in after start up Check Test Button and low rotor RPM horn and away you go.

[John Eacott]

Bell have a mod which allows the engine out horn to be disconnected (placarded on the panel): my 206's are modified, which allows the caution CB to remain in during start/shut down. Quite handy, and a better option (IMO) than the more common practice of pulling the Caution CB, thus having no warning panel lights until after start.

The mod means that you won't have an aural warning of an engine failure, but I suspect that wouldn't be a major issue with a few other clues along the way

[Patrick_Waugh]

Warning Horn Question - B206 BIII

First, while I appreciate all the help I can get, it's important I get this right, so don't answer unless you are sure.

You are tooling along in your B206 BIII, which is equiped with a warning horn mute button.

Suddenly, your engine goes out (thankfully at plenty of altitude and airspeed for a safe auto), and of course the annoying horns go off.

After having lowered collective the Low RRPM goes off, and after taking care of more immediate concerns, you push the warning horn mute button to turn off the remaining engine out annunciator.

Now, as you approach a lovely little emergency landing zone and begin to pull collective is the Low RRPM warning horn going to go off again as it reset?

----

The above is to help me answer the question of once muted, under what conditons will they become active again.

Thanks for your help.

Patrick

[tomstheword]

you are looking for a very select group of people

In the 206 I fly, after landing and winding down the throttle the horn will go off, so I mute it. Then as I roll the throttle off the throttle the horn will sometimes go off again but not always, dont know why. It is a modern B3 and doesnt have a seperate audible low rotor horn. Some I have come across have two separate tones that you can test by raising the collective at ground idle. This one is on if the rpm is below 90, hence the mute. Most older (early 80's) B3s dont have mutes so you use the circuit breaker until started/once stopped. This probably wont help!

[Patrick_Waugh]

Originally Posted by tomstheword

In the 206 I fly, after landing and winding down the throttle the horn will go off, so I mute it. Then as I roll the throttle off the throttle the horn will sometimes go off again but not always, dont know why. It is a modern B3 and doesnt have a seperate audible low rotor horn. Some I have come across have two separate tones that you can test by raising the collective at ground idle. This one is on if the rpm is below 90, hence the mute. Most older (early 80's) B3s dont have mutes so you use the circuit breaker until started/once stopped. This probably wont help!

When you said "the horn" above, I'm assuming an engine out warning horn as you later said you don' t have a low RRPM horn.

While this helps a little, you are right, I'm looking for details. Every little bit helps though.

I think I get now that if you have both horns installed, when you turn the battery on, if the collective is full down, only the engine out horn will sound (if installed & circuit breaker is in). You have to pull collective to get the low RRPM to go off I'm thinking. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

At this point, if a mute is equiped, you can silence it, and proceed with start. I believe that the manual indicates if so silenced that you skip the pull on the collective as the low RRPM will not sound at this point.

As N1 comes above 55%, the engine out horn will be reset and enabled, and as RRPM passes 90%, the low RRPM horn resets and will sound if you droop.

This is my best guess so far, and I'm hoping someone knows.

[Arm out the window]

That sounds right.
In our Jet Rangers, the engine out horn (intermittent beeping) sounds with the battery on and circuit breaker in, and when you pull the collective, the low rotor horn (continuous tone) joins it. Having proven they work, we pull the circuit breaker for start and reset it when the engine's running so it's not beeping in our ear during start.
In our Long Ranger with the audio cancel button installed, the continuous tone sounds with engine off, collective down on the ground, and you can silence it by pushing the button. It also comes on if you've landed and wound the throttle back to idle. This tallies up with Tom's post - there's only the continuous tone, no change when the collective is up - however, I haven't tested it in flight with low engine / low rotor rpm to check; not planning to any time soon either, I hope.

[John Eacott]

Originally Posted by Patrick_Waugh

Now, as you approach a lovely little emergency landing zone and begin to pull collective is the Low RRPM warning horn going to go off again as it reset?

Why do you anticipate that your auto is going to be so inept that you will droop the Nr down low enough to set off the horn I'm sure that you wouldn't do that, would you

[Patrick_Waugh]

Originally Posted by Arm out the window

That sounds right.
In our Jet Rangers, the engine out horn (intermittent beeping) sounds with the battery on and circuit breaker in, and when you pull the collective, the low rotor horn (continuous tone) joins it.

Wow, I'm back to drawing board then, as an instructor from Bell Helicopter sent me videos, and I asked him which was which (continuous vs. intermittent) and he indicated the reverse!

Funny though, as based on the videos I had assumed the above, given that the Low RRPM wouldn't come on till you pulled some collective.

Patrick

[Arm out the window]

Sorry, Patrick, hope I haven't given you a bum steer there.
However, as the continous beep is the one linked to the collective, I've always thought it to be the low rotor rpm warning telling me to get the collective down quick.

[Patrick_Waugh]

Originally Posted by Arm out the window

Sorry, Patrick, hope I haven't given you a bum steer there.
However, as the continous beep is the one linked to the collective, I've always thought it to be the low rotor rpm warning telling me to get the collective down quick.

You know, I thought that was the case after I initially viewed the videos. One of the videos starts with dark annunciators and the click of a switch (which must be the battery or the circuit breaker), and the big three light up with the intermintent horn. (Which clearly then must be the engine out horn).

The second video starts with same lights, and both horns (ie the continuous over the top of the intermittent).

So, just before the video was started collective was pulled.

This clears this up. I had them backwards!

Thanks so much.