Bell 206: JetRanger and LongRanger
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: N20,W99
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Went up in a 206 JetRanger today for first time with a friend, great smooth ride
However when he dropped me off after a coffee he started the engines and black "smoke" seemed to "pop" (no sound) from the exhaust just as rotors started turning. No unusual sounds etc, but he said the engine had started quite hot.
Is this something he should be concerned about or quite common?
However when he dropped me off after a coffee he started the engines and black "smoke" seemed to "pop" (no sound) from the exhaust just as rotors started turning. No unusual sounds etc, but he said the engine had started quite hot.
Is this something he should be concerned about or quite common?
I had a 206 engine break apart while in a hover, and the first signs of this was exactly what you are describing, the cause was a very small crack in one of the bearing supports inside the engine, one of the supports had a lubrication vein running inside of it, and when a few drops of oil started hitting the very hot turbine wheel, the thermal shock caused them to separate.
Can you define "quite hot"
If the engine has not been shut down for long - failure to wait for the TOT to descend to a reasonable number (< 150 C I recall - but it has been years since I flew a 206 ) before introducing fuel can lead to a "warm" start. A weak battery doesn't help.
While, I am sure, this is not the case here - pushing the starter button with the throttle at the idle stop will lead to a startled expression, lots of funny howling noises as the temp pegs, a pretty blue coloured turbine followed by a turbine change. I have never head of anyone saving the day by closing the throttle - it all happens too fast - push starter button, N1 rises - light off - funny noise - temp pegs.
It's all over about that fast. No one involved will smile. 
Fun and games will also present themselves if the ignitor CB is left out and after opening the throttle and having no light off this is suddenly noticed and the CB is pushed in instead of closing the throttle, aborting the start and waiting for all the fuel to drain out of the can before attempting another start. I saw this happen once - most impressive.
If the engine has not been shut down for long - failure to wait for the TOT to descend to a reasonable number (< 150 C I recall - but it has been years since I flew a 206 ) before introducing fuel can lead to a "warm" start. A weak battery doesn't help.
While, I am sure, this is not the case here - pushing the starter button with the throttle at the idle stop will lead to a startled expression, lots of funny howling noises as the temp pegs, a pretty blue coloured turbine followed by a turbine change. I have never head of anyone saving the day by closing the throttle - it all happens too fast - push starter button, N1 rises - light off - funny noise - temp pegs.
It's all over about that fast. No one involved will smile. Fun and games will also present themselves if the ignitor CB is left out and after opening the throttle and having no light off this is suddenly noticed and the CB is pushed in instead of closing the throttle, aborting the start and waiting for all the fuel to drain out of the can before attempting another start. I saw this happen once - most impressive.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: florida
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pylon links
the pylon links maintains a relatively neutral position for the transmission, the drag link/Iso mount dampens the forward and aft inputs indused by forward flight controls. Left/ right inputs will be felt in the airframes, however these are dampened by the pylon link configeration.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: berkhamsted
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TT straps and rotor hub overhaul on a jet ranger 206b3
can any one advise > i am buying a jet ranger with great hours on it but the tt straps and rotor hub overhaul is due for renewal >can any one advice a good place to look up and if they have had them done before >what cost were involved and the cheepest place to go, dont want to miss out on this great machine but dont want to be stung as soon as i buy it >only 82 hours left on parts .thanks
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Hi
This is a potential "ouch" and I mean big time.
The TT straps will need replacing every two years (or 1200 hours) whichever comes sooner. The two year interval is irresepective of whether or not you machine flies a single hour.
The TT straps will cost you approximately £7k fitted. I can get you an exact figure tomorrow, if you need it, as I had mine changed in February. Your maintenance Company can do this for you. Who are you proposing to use?
The main rotor hub can cost you anything from £10k - £50k and will depend upon the condition of the item when inspected. As far as I know the only people that can do this are Sloane Helicopters (though I could be wrong).
I purchased my JetBox 18 months ago. At the time I negotiated to buy the machine the main rotor hub was already at Sloane for overhaul. It had been sent in by the current owners at that time. They had budgeted for £12k and this was the price that had been estimated by Sloane prior to them receiving it.
The final bill was £37k and clearly came as a big shock to all.
By all means by buy the machine, but just bear it in mind.
Good luck
Joel
This is a potential "ouch" and I mean big time.
The TT straps will need replacing every two years (or 1200 hours) whichever comes sooner. The two year interval is irresepective of whether or not you machine flies a single hour.
The TT straps will cost you approximately £7k fitted. I can get you an exact figure tomorrow, if you need it, as I had mine changed in February. Your maintenance Company can do this for you. Who are you proposing to use?
The main rotor hub can cost you anything from £10k - £50k and will depend upon the condition of the item when inspected. As far as I know the only people that can do this are Sloane Helicopters (though I could be wrong).
I purchased my JetBox 18 months ago. At the time I negotiated to buy the machine the main rotor hub was already at Sloane for overhaul. It had been sent in by the current owners at that time. They had budgeted for £12k and this was the price that had been estimated by Sloane prior to them receiving it.
The final bill was £37k and clearly came as a big shock to all.
By all means by buy the machine, but just bear it in mind.
Good luck
Joel
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
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Agree with Joel here, TT straps will set you back 8.5k ish and then you get a credit for the old one's of approx 1.5k once Bell have them back in their hands. Bell obviously don't appreciate these parts being re-manufactured and ending up on the grey market!
Have heard similar horror stories on main rotor hub overhaul, the key to buying any Jetranger is to buy with a business head on rather than an emotional one!
There are some 206's with great component times on sale in the UK market at the moment! Ignore the hours and the year of manufacture, concentrate on spec and components (inc TT's and annuals). You will make it the machine you want it to be with a new paint, interior and avionics.
Some may say buy now before the banks continue registering profits of £3bn! But as I am not a banker I couldn't possibly comment!
Have heard similar horror stories on main rotor hub overhaul, the key to buying any Jetranger is to buy with a business head on rather than an emotional one!
There are some 206's with great component times on sale in the UK market at the moment! Ignore the hours and the year of manufacture, concentrate on spec and components (inc TT's and annuals). You will make it the machine you want it to be with a new paint, interior and avionics.
Some may say buy now before the banks continue registering profits of £3bn! But as I am not a banker I couldn't possibly comment!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: N20,W99
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Can anyone tell me the exact differences between the L3 and L4?
- 4,150 vs 4,450 Lbs MTOW
- Slightly different fuel burn sequence with minor changes in the fuel system.
- Slightly different limitations, like in N2/NR
- Some L4's have a High Altitude Tail Rotor Kit installed.
- The L4's come with a K-Flex main driveshaft as standard equipment.
- Some L3's don't have a FWD Fuel Qty switch, although all L4's do.
I can't remember any other differences, but mainly that is it, they are almost identical, and at High DA's I would much rather go on the L3 as the L4 gets a little dangerous with the TR situation.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Blender wrote: "at High DA's I would much rather go on the L3 as the L4 gets a little dangerous with the TR situation."
I think you have that reversed. The High Altitude TR is the fix for the LTE problem inherent with the L-1/L-3.
It is a bit more sensitive than the L-3 tail rotor, but I much prefer having the authority.
JMHO
I think you have that reversed. The High Altitude TR is the fix for the LTE problem inherent with the L-1/L-3.
It is a bit more sensitive than the L-3 tail rotor, but I much prefer having the authority.
JMHO
Join Date: Aug 2009
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BP 2380
all the information about the BP 2380 can be found at BP Turbo Oil 2380 and Mobil 2 Zhet site Mobil Jet Oil II
Odd starting characteristic
My turbine recently came back from overhaul, and since then, we have an intermittent problem on start. Until the engine went away (and with my previous aircraft), as you wound up to 15% and cracked the throttle, the engine would start immediately.
Now, it sometimes 'hangs' for a second or so before firing. The resulting start is then hotter than normal, (still within limits). Of course, whenever I demonstrate it to engineers, it behaves normally and they pat me on the head and tell me to go flying, but their theories have indicated a possible prob with fuel control (don't beleive it) or cracked igniter insulation (but it apparently sounds very healthy) resulting in poor spark.
Any ideas/suggestions?
Now, it sometimes 'hangs' for a second or so before firing. The resulting start is then hotter than normal, (still within limits). Of course, whenever I demonstrate it to engineers, it behaves normally and they pat me on the head and tell me to go flying, but their theories have indicated a possible prob with fuel control (don't beleive it) or cracked igniter insulation (but it apparently sounds very healthy) resulting in poor spark.
Any ideas/suggestions?
Last edited by 206 jock; 20th Aug 2009 at 09:52.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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We had the same problem with a B3 of late. Throttle goes to idle at 15% and there was a 2 or 3 second delay to light off. After a little component swapping the conclusion was a weak battery. New one cured it.
Join Date: May 2006
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206 Jock, how would you suggest you troubleshoot a problem that isnt there?
If there are no symptoms its a bit hard to find the defect,intermittant ones are the hardest to troubleshoot.
Why do you think it wouldnt be the FCU?
To me it sounds like the Fuel Nozzle would be a good start or even bleeding the fuel system to begin with.
Also possibility of pilot finger trouble..sometimes these problems disappear with a different pilot.
Engineers learn that the hard way!
If there are no symptoms its a bit hard to find the defect,intermittant ones are the hardest to troubleshoot.
Why do you think it wouldnt be the FCU?
To me it sounds like the Fuel Nozzle would be a good start or even bleeding the fuel system to begin with.
Also possibility of pilot finger trouble..sometimes these problems disappear with a different pilot.
Engineers learn that the hard way!
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206 Jock
Now, it sometimes 'hangs' for a second or so before firing. The resulting start is then hotter than normal, (still within limits). Of course, whenever I demonstrate it to engineers, it behaves normally and they pat me on the head and tell me to go flying, but their theories have indicated a possible prob with fuel control (don't beleive it) or cracked igniter insulation (but it apparently sounds very healthy) resulting in poor spark..but so far the lazy sods have not actually done anything about it.
Any ideas/suggestions?
Any ideas/suggestions?
