Concerned about flying school
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This to me sounds like a troll.
Something like this would not be posted here, unless it was a deliberate attempt to tarnish someone or somewhere.
If you seriously believe all of this to be true, you would have reported it to an Airport official or the CAA before the said instructor had a chance to notch up so many alleged offences!
My guess is, you are a competing school!
Something like this would not be posted here, unless it was a deliberate attempt to tarnish someone or somewhere.
If you seriously believe all of this to be true, you would have reported it to an Airport official or the CAA before the said instructor had a chance to notch up so many alleged offences!
My guess is, you are a competing school!
Join Date: May 2005
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I agree with autosync - this has to be a wind up !!
Even as a student pilot , common sense must tell you not to go flying in those conditions especially in a basic equipped R22. Surprised your instructor didn't have a beer in his hand while you were flying ! You seem to know a fair bit about the rights and wrongs of the situation , so why did you continue to fly with them. You are very brave or have a death wish.
If this is all true , then don't even go near their front door. I'm not a grass but people operating like this need to be stopped before someone gets hurt - the CAA need to be involved. This just gives us all a bad name and spoils it for all the hard working and law abiding pilots out there.
If on the other hand this is all b*****ks and you are just having a go at someone as autosync suggests then you are a total w****r !
Even as a student pilot , common sense must tell you not to go flying in those conditions especially in a basic equipped R22. Surprised your instructor didn't have a beer in his hand while you were flying ! You seem to know a fair bit about the rights and wrongs of the situation , so why did you continue to fly with them. You are very brave or have a death wish.
If this is all true , then don't even go near their front door. I'm not a grass but people operating like this need to be stopped before someone gets hurt - the CAA need to be involved. This just gives us all a bad name and spoils it for all the hard working and law abiding pilots out there.
If on the other hand this is all b*****ks and you are just having a go at someone as autosync suggests then you are a total w****r !
Hovering AND talking
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LQ71,
The reason for Autosync's concern is that you have only just registered.
Now, you could have been readin every day as a guest and this is the first time you've felt moved to post OR you have another login.
If you already have your PPL(H) and from your post I have inferred that you have, then you should know what the requirements are. You should have known some of the requirements whilst studying Air Law at PPL.
Do what your conscience tells you to do - you ought to know what is acceptable by now!
Cheers
Whirls
The reason for Autosync's concern is that you have only just registered.
Now, you could have been readin every day as a guest and this is the first time you've felt moved to post OR you have another login.
If you already have your PPL(H) and from your post I have inferred that you have, then you should know what the requirements are. You should have known some of the requirements whilst studying Air Law at PPL.
Do what your conscience tells you to do - you ought to know what is acceptable by now!
Cheers
Whirls
Hovering AND talking
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Consider your future? What on earth do you think is going happen? This instructor arranges for you to go swimming in concrete boots? You're not at school anymore, you're not going to be taunted with "tell-tale-tit, your tongue will split!"
Time to take mature action don't you think? If you call the CAA, they do ask who you are and how you know. They will want evidence so you need to provide specifics - dates etc.
Cheers
Whirls
edited to add - This "consider my future" bit - it doesn't mean you WORK for this school, does it? Your concern at potentially losing an income is a little too deep for it just be a worry about others in the industry thinking you're a grass.
Time to take mature action don't you think? If you call the CAA, they do ask who you are and how you know. They will want evidence so you need to provide specifics - dates etc.
Cheers
Whirls
edited to add - This "consider my future" bit - it doesn't mean you WORK for this school, does it? Your concern at potentially losing an income is a little too deep for it just be a worry about others in the industry thinking you're a grass.
Last edited by Whirlygig; 28th Oct 2005 at 14:06.
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You clearly know that what you say you are seeing is unacceptable.
If you have facts and are prepared to stand by them, then you also know what you should do. If you don't have facts then get some.
If you choose to walk away and 'not get blacklisted', you also have to live with the consequences when, if all you say is true, the inevitable happens.
I am not normally prone to be judgemental, but in this case I would suggest you act like a grown-up and as a pilot who has a due sense of responsibility. Confront the school's CFI and manager with your concerns, and if they do not respond appropriately, send an honest letter to the CAA which you would be prepared to discuss openly around a table with the company and with the CAA reps, and which cannot be used against you in a libel court.
BW
If you have facts and are prepared to stand by them, then you also know what you should do. If you don't have facts then get some.
If you choose to walk away and 'not get blacklisted', you also have to live with the consequences when, if all you say is true, the inevitable happens.
I am not normally prone to be judgemental, but in this case I would suggest you act like a grown-up and as a pilot who has a due sense of responsibility. Confront the school's CFI and manager with your concerns, and if they do not respond appropriately, send an honest letter to the CAA which you would be prepared to discuss openly around a table with the company and with the CAA reps, and which cannot be used against you in a libel court.
BW
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The ground school given is very non-existent , I read a lot so I got away with that.
Pre and post flight briefs do not exist.
Dual cross countries are being done in weather like, vis 2KM and cloud base 900 FT.(Having to be put on tower freq when crossing another airfields ATZ)(lower than their circuit height)
Students have been sent solo cross country in conditions as bad as 700FT cloud, with winds up to 25 knots (in a R22)
Solo students are allowed to land at private sites if they wish.
The in house examiner never fails anyone (worst he does is pass but insist on more flying with instructor before self fly hire)
The instructor will do a flight dual then tell the student to log it as solo.
The instructor blatently ignores Rule 5 with low level flying (100FT over some places to look at something, or 800FT over small cities if he feels like it)
The instructor occasionally flys aircraft he is not current on.
The instructor will try and charge 0.2 Hrs more than engine operated Datcon shows in order to build up an hour which he can then use to fly his friends about.
Ground exams answer sheets are left in the vicinity of the student taking the exam in order for him / her to self mark.
The aircraft do not have any radio nav equipment (GPS only) which I believe is a requirement for PPL tests.
Pre and post flight briefs do not exist.
Dual cross countries are being done in weather like, vis 2KM and cloud base 900 FT.(Having to be put on tower freq when crossing another airfields ATZ)(lower than their circuit height)
Students have been sent solo cross country in conditions as bad as 700FT cloud, with winds up to 25 knots (in a R22)
Solo students are allowed to land at private sites if they wish.
The in house examiner never fails anyone (worst he does is pass but insist on more flying with instructor before self fly hire)
The instructor will do a flight dual then tell the student to log it as solo.
The instructor blatently ignores Rule 5 with low level flying (100FT over some places to look at something, or 800FT over small cities if he feels like it)
The instructor occasionally flys aircraft he is not current on.
The instructor will try and charge 0.2 Hrs more than engine operated Datcon shows in order to build up an hour which he can then use to fly his friends about.
Ground exams answer sheets are left in the vicinity of the student taking the exam in order for him / her to self mark.
The aircraft do not have any radio nav equipment (GPS only) which I believe is a requirement for PPL tests.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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IMHO
'learningquickly71'
You sound like a very weak-willed, easily led and foolish individual. Frankly i'm concerned you're flying at all....with no spine how did you ever manage to pass a medical examination.
No matter what stage of training you were at, no-one will believe you didn't know what you were doing was wrong AT THAT TIME. That makes you an accopmplice ..... never mind all this b..........t about wondering afterwards what was right and wrong.
You were a paying customer learning Air Law and pefectly able to act with your intellect and feet at the time. It suited you to take advantage of the blatant rule breaking that was going on to meet your ends. Now you've passed your PPL(H), something has occurred and a dose of sour grapes appears to be setting in.
It seems to me there's a big difference between a pilot and a person who just sits in the cockpit and drives an aircraft. Mostly that difference is about personal traits
Get a spine.....challenge the behaviour.......inform the CAA anyway about what's occurring and be man enough to accept any fallback coming your way.
Otherwise shut your dumb-ass mouth, quit as a helicopter driver and go do your bleating somewhere else.
R1tamer
'learningquickly71'
You sound like a very weak-willed, easily led and foolish individual. Frankly i'm concerned you're flying at all....with no spine how did you ever manage to pass a medical examination.
No matter what stage of training you were at, no-one will believe you didn't know what you were doing was wrong AT THAT TIME. That makes you an accopmplice ..... never mind all this b..........t about wondering afterwards what was right and wrong.
You were a paying customer learning Air Law and pefectly able to act with your intellect and feet at the time. It suited you to take advantage of the blatant rule breaking that was going on to meet your ends. Now you've passed your PPL(H), something has occurred and a dose of sour grapes appears to be setting in.
It seems to me there's a big difference between a pilot and a person who just sits in the cockpit and drives an aircraft. Mostly that difference is about personal traits
Get a spine.....challenge the behaviour.......inform the CAA anyway about what's occurring and be man enough to accept any fallback coming your way.
Otherwise shut your dumb-ass mouth, quit as a helicopter driver and go do your bleating somewhere else.
R1tamer
Last edited by R1Tamer; 28th Oct 2005 at 14:12.
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R1 Tamer ....
That's some reply !! Just wish you wouldn't beat around the bush so much and just say what you mean !!!!!!!
Are you from Texas ? If not you should be !
Anyway , you're right on the money. Good post.
Tony.
That's some reply !! Just wish you wouldn't beat around the bush so much and just say what you mean !!!!!!!
Are you from Texas ? If not you should be !
Anyway , you're right on the money. Good post.
Tony.
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IF this is not a troll I see nothing wrong with finding out what the general consensus is before acting. Although your instinct may tell you what is going on is not right (i.e. you would hope it was done differently) without experience for all you know it is actually not too far from the norm. I say there is nothing spineless about finding out what the bigger picture is before acting - in fact perhaps it's a trait that makes a better pilot than acting impulsively and hot-headedly!
However, I agree - put up or shut up! (In the nicest possible way
!)
However, I agree - put up or shut up! (In the nicest possible way
!)
Hovering AND talking
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Exactly Cron!
LQ71 are you sure you're not a CPL? Possibly with an FI(R)? Those qualifications would cost the amount you quote. In which case, I would definitely re-iterate what I said above. You should know what to do and you shouldn't need peer approval or bow down to peer pressure from the pages.
Cheers
Whirls
If it's any consolation, I did once inform the CAA of someone flying commercially on a PPL. And I don't care what anyone thinks - I think I did the right thing and that's what matters.
LQ71 are you sure you're not a CPL? Possibly with an FI(R)? Those qualifications would cost the amount you quote. In which case, I would definitely re-iterate what I said above. You should know what to do and you shouldn't need peer approval or bow down to peer pressure from the pages.
Cheers
Whirls
If it's any consolation, I did once inform the CAA of someone flying commercially on a PPL. And I don't care what anyone thinks - I think I did the right thing and that's what matters.
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I'm relatively new to heli's and this week I got sent a thing through from CHIRP, www.chirp.co.uk
"The home of confidential reporting for the aviation and maritime communities"
Can anyone else shed any light on this organisation, seems to be a mechanism, run/endorsed by CAA to allow confidential reporting of these types of issues.
"The home of confidential reporting for the aviation and maritime communities"
Can anyone else shed any light on this organisation, seems to be a mechanism, run/endorsed by CAA to allow confidential reporting of these types of issues.
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Even if LQ71 is a CPL(H) holder I see nothing wrong with getting a feel for what the repercussions might be. Put up or shut up say we and I'll bet most of us would just shut up (or should that be put up?) and not even consider blowing the whistle. So fair play for considering it. Again nothing spineless there...
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Stringfellow Dork
" Put up or shut up say we and I'll bet most of us would just shut up (or should that be put up?) and not even consider blowing the whistle. "
Mmmmmmm..... a generalisation that any pilot with a professional attitude will be unhappy you tarred them with!
Put up + Shut Up = FUBAR
R1tamer
" Put up or shut up say we and I'll bet most of us would just shut up (or should that be put up?) and not even consider blowing the whistle. "
Mmmmmmm..... a generalisation that any pilot with a professional attitude will be unhappy you tarred them with!
Put up + Shut Up = FUBAR
R1tamer
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wow , lots of info there & honestly I think you know what to do.
I dont think bouncing this off a forum can hurt and atleast its a place to ask a question with out repercussions that will affect your future but.....when the times comes to report it it may and thats what PPL balance ..If I do nothing and get through is it worth risking reprisal in doing the right thing.
Its not easy doing the right thing, especially when it is something severe as to shut down an operation and SPINELESS isnt a word that you should write , some PPL just cant do certain things with out an element of fear or self doubt...dont trash someone for seeking help....... If this is a bull**** thread then take it as one but honestly the guy didnt name anything as he stated just a series of concerns that as a new guy to the industry may not know of what is acceptable or not , Its not like all these things are happening in every flight so just "BENDING" a rule here and there doesnt seem so bad but when you ad them all together well , yeah it can look like crap.
Lets look at it this way seeing as you know what is right and wrong and rules are being broken ..(THERE IS NO BENDING OF RULES..either they are followed or they are not ) if no one gets hurt then there is no problem BUT if some one does and it isnt reported ...how are you going to feel then knowing that you may have had the oportunity to save some ones life but did nothing in fear of being labeled a stickler of safety ?
IF you report it tomorrow and things change , you may never know that you saved some one from injury or loss of life but you can assume that you did.
Everytime you do a pre flight inspection you never know if you will find... what ever the Jesus Nut coming loose , but everytime you do it & find nothing you know that you just helped peserve your own life......Could you fly comfortably with out doing one ?....I know that I would be ****ting myself before I got off the ground so there is no way I could even crank the engine with out sweating guilty thoughts.
Personally I know that I would report it , jesus write a letter as a concerned citizen or as a prior student or some guy who's house keeps getting over flown at 50ft , but get it to the correct department !!!
Get them to check operations visually incognito when you are schedualed to fly or another pilot, get them to see it for themselves.
NOTIFY ANYONE YOU CAN, ANYWAY YOU CAN !!
If you have asked the CFI about it and he talks you down ...does he back up his arguement with the REGS book and outline where you are being over cautious or is he throwing the old " I have been flying for X years and you only Y years blah blah crap.
Good luck with it...
I dont think bouncing this off a forum can hurt and atleast its a place to ask a question with out repercussions that will affect your future but.....when the times comes to report it it may and thats what PPL balance ..If I do nothing and get through is it worth risking reprisal in doing the right thing.
Its not easy doing the right thing, especially when it is something severe as to shut down an operation and SPINELESS isnt a word that you should write , some PPL just cant do certain things with out an element of fear or self doubt...dont trash someone for seeking help....... If this is a bull**** thread then take it as one but honestly the guy didnt name anything as he stated just a series of concerns that as a new guy to the industry may not know of what is acceptable or not , Its not like all these things are happening in every flight so just "BENDING" a rule here and there doesnt seem so bad but when you ad them all together well , yeah it can look like crap.
Lets look at it this way seeing as you know what is right and wrong and rules are being broken ..(THERE IS NO BENDING OF RULES..either they are followed or they are not ) if no one gets hurt then there is no problem BUT if some one does and it isnt reported ...how are you going to feel then knowing that you may have had the oportunity to save some ones life but did nothing in fear of being labeled a stickler of safety ?
IF you report it tomorrow and things change , you may never know that you saved some one from injury or loss of life but you can assume that you did.
Everytime you do a pre flight inspection you never know if you will find... what ever the Jesus Nut coming loose , but everytime you do it & find nothing you know that you just helped peserve your own life......Could you fly comfortably with out doing one ?....I know that I would be ****ting myself before I got off the ground so there is no way I could even crank the engine with out sweating guilty thoughts.
Personally I know that I would report it , jesus write a letter as a concerned citizen or as a prior student or some guy who's house keeps getting over flown at 50ft , but get it to the correct department !!!
Get them to check operations visually incognito when you are schedualed to fly or another pilot, get them to see it for themselves.
NOTIFY ANYONE YOU CAN, ANYWAY YOU CAN !!
If you have asked the CFI about it and he talks you down ...does he back up his arguement with the REGS book and outline where you are being over cautious or is he throwing the old " I have been flying for X years and you only Y years blah blah crap.
Good luck with it...
As others have stated already, you have 2 real options: Do nothing and you may end up with this crowd having an incident or worse an accident, and someone getting killed, or, write a detailed confidential letter to the CAA out lining your concerns.
Just be prepared to stand up in public if needed, to back this up. Are you the only one who has commented on the way this place operates?
Just be prepared to stand up in public if needed, to back this up. Are you the only one who has commented on the way this place operates?