Aussie fire contracts
Yep, you cant have it both ways. Lots of Kiwi and Oz pilots in Canada each season. If you want a job flying a 212 dropping water, then get the experience. Go overseas if you have to.
DD said:
Just out of curiosity, how else is one to get experience on fire operations?
Re the to and fro'ing about overseas operators in Oz: they are all "sponsored" by a local operator, who has to gain an AOC to allow the operation of an overseas registration. The argument about pilots working around the world isn't the issue: the ability of Oz aircraft and operators going to North America is next to impossible, on Oz registrations. John McD has N registrations, before that is raised.
Whilst overseas aircraft are not in any way unwelcome, it is certainly not a level playing field when it comes to the exchange of equipment
Beetling around in smoke is NO PLACE for getting experience
Re the to and fro'ing about overseas operators in Oz: they are all "sponsored" by a local operator, who has to gain an AOC to allow the operation of an overseas registration. The argument about pilots working around the world isn't the issue: the ability of Oz aircraft and operators going to North America is next to impossible, on Oz registrations. John McD has N registrations, before that is raised.
Whilst overseas aircraft are not in any way unwelcome, it is certainly not a level playing field when it comes to the exchange of equipment
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This subjest seems to pop up every couple of months and there are always some valid points raised. As an Australian working overseas I have to say that I think it is truly a global industry these days. Machines are being moved all over the world every day. With crew included. If there is a wholey Australian owned company that can support 212's for the entire year without going abroad then have a crack at the contracts. Dont sit there and moan about foriegners coming to take your jobs. As for machines going to North America from Australia I have to disagree with you John. There has been a number of Aus registered aircraft working in North America for a while now. On a seasonal basis also. Buzz avaition had a 205 in Hawaii last summer just to name one. I guess its just how hard you want to work to get the aircraft working abroard. On the North American forums there has been a lot of negative sentiments towards Aussies and Kiwis flying in North America. It is unfortunate to see the select few Australians sharing the same views about the reciprocal.
Auscan,
I'm interested in your comments; any other Oz registered helicopters that you know of working on ConUS? Since there is only one 205 registered in Australia (NNN, Helicorp), and one UH-1B, Commercial Helicopters, did Buzz use an Oz registered helicopter in Hawaii?
Again, I have no problem with offshore registered aircraft in Oz, on a level playing field. It just seems to slope uphill from this side, ISTM.
TIA
I'm interested in your comments; any other Oz registered helicopters that you know of working on ConUS? Since there is only one 205 registered in Australia (NNN, Helicorp), and one UH-1B, Commercial Helicopters, did Buzz use an Oz registered helicopter in Hawaii?
Again, I have no problem with offshore registered aircraft in Oz, on a level playing field. It just seems to slope uphill from this side, ISTM.
TIA
The company supplying the 212's from Canada is Wildcat Helicopters out of Kelowna, BC. A superb company run by Mike and Ian. Ian is from downunder and both guys are really good people. They are bringing Canadian pilots because they are very very good at what they do. WC chases fires in Canada all season and their expertise are second to none in the world.
The use of the longline for the bucket is redundant in this application since the contract with HeliAust calls for the belly tank. Lets not get into the belly tank VS bucket argument but the better solution is the bucket by a country mile. Especially under the guidance of these pilots.
WC is also to train a bunch of HeliAust pilots on the aircraft as well, but the primary pilots are going to be the Canuk guys or any Antipodeans known and trusted to WC.
Instead of complaining about the Canadians coming over, perhaps we should be happy that Aussie is getting the best to offer.
I would be more perturbed why the authorities are not allowing the buckets to be fitted and allowing these guys to do what they do best. Seems politics and impressions to the public overwelm commonsence yet again.
The use of the longline for the bucket is redundant in this application since the contract with HeliAust calls for the belly tank. Lets not get into the belly tank VS bucket argument but the better solution is the bucket by a country mile. Especially under the guidance of these pilots.
WC is also to train a bunch of HeliAust pilots on the aircraft as well, but the primary pilots are going to be the Canuk guys or any Antipodeans known and trusted to WC.
Instead of complaining about the Canadians coming over, perhaps we should be happy that Aussie is getting the best to offer.
I would be more perturbed why the authorities are not allowing the buckets to be fitted and allowing these guys to do what they do best. Seems politics and impressions to the public overwelm commonsence yet again.
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As far as I know firefighting is a specialist deal and all the agencies run on a competitive tender - if you don't cut the mustard in either price or capability you don't get a start.
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Hey Reefdog,
Pull your head in mate.
If you read the questions again it askes why is all. No punt at JW at all.
Are the 212s two pilot opps? It would be a great way to train new people
Pull your head in mate.
If you read the questions again it askes why is all. No punt at JW at all.
Are the 212s two pilot opps? It would be a great way to train new people
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I was always under the impression that Buzz's 205 was Australian registered. Unless it was not changed when it showed up from overseas. If that was the case then I apologise, but it is just another case of operators staying ahead of the curve to keep themselves in the game.
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Reefdog,
I'll bet there're more Aussie 212 pilots than you think. The NSCA had them. Hevilift has them. Lloyds has/had them. The 412 endorsement covers the 212 and there are plenty of 412 pilots in the country. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they aren't there.
Steve76,
I will never accept that the Canadians have some super-human advantage over Australians that should give them the right to be at the very front of our fire-fighting efforts here. Thats just insulting to the majority of Australian pilots who love fire suppression work and are committed to doing a great job.
Yes there are a lot of Australian and New Zealand pilots working in Canada. But my impression is that that is only the case because there is a chronic shortage of pilots there particularly during the summer. Thats not the case here. Steve, weren't you canvassing pilots to go up last year because it looked as though machines would spend the summer on the ground if pilots couldn't be found for them?
I think Canadian pilots should get as much work as they can in their own country and I'm sure they do.
So far as Johnny Mac's 214 going to Canada last year. Yeah it did. And it was NOT permitted to be crewed by Australians.
I'm all for the exchange of pilots across the Pacific, in BOTH directions. But only to take up the slack, not the pick of the jobs.
I'll bet there're more Aussie 212 pilots than you think. The NSCA had them. Hevilift has them. Lloyds has/had them. The 412 endorsement covers the 212 and there are plenty of 412 pilots in the country. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they aren't there.
Steve76,
I will never accept that the Canadians have some super-human advantage over Australians that should give them the right to be at the very front of our fire-fighting efforts here. Thats just insulting to the majority of Australian pilots who love fire suppression work and are committed to doing a great job.
Yes there are a lot of Australian and New Zealand pilots working in Canada. But my impression is that that is only the case because there is a chronic shortage of pilots there particularly during the summer. Thats not the case here. Steve, weren't you canvassing pilots to go up last year because it looked as though machines would spend the summer on the ground if pilots couldn't be found for them?
I think Canadian pilots should get as much work as they can in their own country and I'm sure they do.
So far as Johnny Mac's 214 going to Canada last year. Yeah it did. And it was NOT permitted to be crewed by Australians.
I'm all for the exchange of pilots across the Pacific, in BOTH directions. But only to take up the slack, not the pick of the jobs.
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Maybe the place to get experience is on the ground in support of someone watching, waiting for a chance when it's not flat out or congested.........being in a cfa unit learning about fire behaviour and ground attack methods.......or two pilot ops (as mentioned by another) with a mentor/trainer.......or participating in a training school or carding sytem........or........if none of that appeals, spread your experience curve to everyone at the operation by finding someone desperate to have a machine flying, no adequate training, bumble around off freq., near missing everyone else, contra-direction, spraying water/chemical over the ground crews, leaving the bucket in the flame front, clunking stags, overtorqueing, how did I do that turns, getting really tired but pushing on selflessly, making cowboy hooting noises......etc etc.
(By the way I have done some of the above), but recommend that there are better ways than plunging in at the deep end, that someone may be able to elaborate on here.
In the interest of complete discussion - SMIB.
DD
(By the way I have done some of the above), but recommend that there are better ways than plunging in at the deep end, that someone may be able to elaborate on here.
In the interest of complete discussion - SMIB.
DD
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fuel for the fire, posted on a US web page
CHC Helicopters (Australia) B212/B412 AERIAL FIREFIGHTING CAPTAINS CHC Helicopters (Australia) is a subsidiary of the largest international operator of civil helicopters and provides services throughout Australia and East Timor.We are currently seeking applications from experienced B412/ B212 Captains to support of the 05/06 Australian fire season. These are casual employment positions and will be based in Victoria, Australia for the durations of the fire season, (approx 14 weeks.) Commencing November 2005The minimum criteria for these positions are listed below: (Applicants not meeting these requirements will not be considered) · Australian CPL (H)· 2000 total helicopter hours· 1000 hours PIC · 250 hours PIC on Type · Considerable aerial fire fighting experience· Rappelling experience If you have experience in aerial firefighting and are looking for a change in your environment then these positions could be for you. Further enquires should be directed to:Scott Templeton, Acting Resource Manager, Telephone: 61 8 8372 7726email; [email protected]r by email to [email protected] CHC Helicopters (Australia) is an Equal Opportunity Employer
CHC Helicopters (Australia) B212/B412 AERIAL FIREFIGHTING CAPTAINS CHC Helicopters (Australia) is a subsidiary of the largest international operator of civil helicopters and provides services throughout Australia and East Timor.We are currently seeking applications from experienced B412/ B212 Captains to support of the 05/06 Australian fire season. These are casual employment positions and will be based in Victoria, Australia for the durations of the fire season, (approx 14 weeks.) Commencing November 2005The minimum criteria for these positions are listed below: (Applicants not meeting these requirements will not be considered) · Australian CPL (H)· 2000 total helicopter hours· 1000 hours PIC · 250 hours PIC on Type · Considerable aerial fire fighting experience· Rappelling experience If you have experience in aerial firefighting and are looking for a change in your environment then these positions could be for you. Further enquires should be directed to:Scott Templeton, Acting Resource Manager, Telephone: 61 8 8372 7726email; [email protected]r by email to [email protected] CHC Helicopters (Australia) is an Equal Opportunity Employer
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Well there you go fella's. The door is open. Anyone that fits the bill can jump on board. Will anyone be registering their disapproval with CHC having fire contracts? Hopefully not.
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ref out of country operators for the fire seasons. the question needs to be asked how come Mcdermotts squeals like a stuck pig when HA gets a fire contract in qld but uses foreign registered machines in this country himself (therefore the money goes out of the country unlike at Helicopters Aus where the pilots and machines are aus reg), and doesn't seem to raise much of a protest when the big fella down the road brings in Canadian machines and pilots. MMMMMMMMM how does that work hey!
why not just leave the pilots to do their thing without campaigns that ultimately just degrade the whole industry and create a public perception (and yes its been brought into the public arena with radio interviews and the like by MCd), that theres something strange afoot when really the precedent was set years ago by that particular operator (and others) who used foregn reg and OWNED machines. some people should just pull their heads in ..have a nice day
why not just leave the pilots to do their thing without campaigns that ultimately just degrade the whole industry and create a public perception (and yes its been brought into the public arena with radio interviews and the like by MCd), that theres something strange afoot when really the precedent was set years ago by that particular operator (and others) who used foregn reg and OWNED machines. some people should just pull their heads in ..have a nice day
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Chook - Think you are off on a tanget there. Just because the helo is N registered doesnt mean the money goes offshore.
Actually all the 214s are owned by McDermott, crewed by Aussies and the money stays in Australia.
And for the record Helicopters Australia is an Aussie registered company but is actually owned by Helicopters NZ Ltd, therefore if you want to be accurate you will find that their profits DO go overseas, back to Head Office in Nelson, New Zealand.
Actually all the 214s are owned by McDermott, crewed by Aussies and the money stays in Australia.
And for the record Helicopters Australia is an Aussie registered company but is actually owned by Helicopters NZ Ltd, therefore if you want to be accurate you will find that their profits DO go overseas, back to Head Office in Nelson, New Zealand.
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Helicopters Australia is an Aussie registered company but is actually owned by Helicopters NZ Ltd, therefore if you want to be accurate you will find that their profits DO go overseas, back to Head Office in Nelson, New Zealand.