Aussie fire contracts
clearance: I was addressing your comments that you thought there was no place for a 206 type acft with a bucket beneath it. I dont think anyone has argued that there should only be one type on the fire.
JE: I think the 117 on a 100ft line is still not as effective as the 206 for mop up due to the factors I mentioned. In particular, DUFAS or not, the bucket weight and inertia is too high to work in too close to ground crew without added risk, and given the general ignorance of these risks by the ground crews who are so job focussed, I think it is not ideal. Rotor downwash is far too harsh in the 117, even on the end of a 100 ft line. The cost per litre arguement goes out the door due to the generally low number of drops per hour during mop up.
I thoroughly agree with your comments that "no system is perfect". This flows into the thrust of my angle that a multi type response to a fire season offers the most flexibility and therefore the most appropriate and effective response. That always includes the airtractors, crop duster.
Here is how the fire day might go in an ideal world....
I reckon a fixed wing mapping acft is out and back by 1 hour prior to first light with all the mapping completed. The plan is done by first light and the 206s/500s launch with the ground section leaders for recon of their section of the fire, to be dropped into the same pad as the rest of their section who have arrived by medium (212/205/412). Then the hand over from the night crew who go out by medium. The 206s/500s start doing the air attack stuff, one dedicated to laying defensive retardent lines with the airtractors and other fixed wing. One identifies the area of concern (from the IR mapping) and begins employing the mediums and heavy helicopters by about 9.30 am. [I know that getting into it BEFORE the fire is out of control is a wee bit controversial!!
and not so good for revenue - but hey, we can always cross our fingers and hope someone sayds the magic word: BACKBURN!]
The AAS matches assets avcailable to the task. He will call the belly tankers into the urban fringes and use the superior water drop rate of the bucket machines in the bush. The experienced AAS will state the intent of the plan to the mediums and heavies, then stay out of it unless needed to deconflict, send assets home, call more assets forward, and to modify the plan as the situation evolves. Another 206 is circling with the incident commander keeping tabs on developments. Another may be specifically positioned downwind of the fire with circling fixed wing bomber support to immediately call them in on dangerous spotovers. Other 206s are now starting to get their long lines on and head out to sections of the line secured by ground crews so they can do mop up, each working directly for the ground section leader with no AAS. More mediums are working directly for a ground leader who has begun a backburn, ensuring crew safety, reduce spots, and control burn rate if required.
And so the day goes.
A multi type approach will always offer the best coverage of the various scenarios a fire season presents.
Just my 200 bobs worth!!
JE: I think the 117 on a 100ft line is still not as effective as the 206 for mop up due to the factors I mentioned. In particular, DUFAS or not, the bucket weight and inertia is too high to work in too close to ground crew without added risk, and given the general ignorance of these risks by the ground crews who are so job focussed, I think it is not ideal. Rotor downwash is far too harsh in the 117, even on the end of a 100 ft line. The cost per litre arguement goes out the door due to the generally low number of drops per hour during mop up.
I thoroughly agree with your comments that "no system is perfect". This flows into the thrust of my angle that a multi type response to a fire season offers the most flexibility and therefore the most appropriate and effective response. That always includes the airtractors, crop duster.
Here is how the fire day might go in an ideal world....
I reckon a fixed wing mapping acft is out and back by 1 hour prior to first light with all the mapping completed. The plan is done by first light and the 206s/500s launch with the ground section leaders for recon of their section of the fire, to be dropped into the same pad as the rest of their section who have arrived by medium (212/205/412). Then the hand over from the night crew who go out by medium. The 206s/500s start doing the air attack stuff, one dedicated to laying defensive retardent lines with the airtractors and other fixed wing. One identifies the area of concern (from the IR mapping) and begins employing the mediums and heavy helicopters by about 9.30 am. [I know that getting into it BEFORE the fire is out of control is a wee bit controversial!!
and not so good for revenue - but hey, we can always cross our fingers and hope someone sayds the magic word: BACKBURN!]The AAS matches assets avcailable to the task. He will call the belly tankers into the urban fringes and use the superior water drop rate of the bucket machines in the bush. The experienced AAS will state the intent of the plan to the mediums and heavies, then stay out of it unless needed to deconflict, send assets home, call more assets forward, and to modify the plan as the situation evolves. Another 206 is circling with the incident commander keeping tabs on developments. Another may be specifically positioned downwind of the fire with circling fixed wing bomber support to immediately call them in on dangerous spotovers. Other 206s are now starting to get their long lines on and head out to sections of the line secured by ground crews so they can do mop up, each working directly for the ground section leader with no AAS. More mediums are working directly for a ground leader who has begun a backburn, ensuring crew safety, reduce spots, and control burn rate if required.
And so the day goes.
A multi type approach will always offer the best coverage of the various scenarios a fire season presents.
Just my 200 bobs worth!!
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DUFAS
John E referred to a new fire attack system as DUFAS...it was the Downunder Fire Attack System but the Australian Remuda and US Erickson have formed a company called Erickson Downunder to market and manufacture the system. The system is now called the 'sling tank' to more correctly describe its operation. Just for info if anyone was wondering.
I've seen it in action and IMHO it works well.
Dufas, schmufas
The "sling tank" was used during the Hydro Majestic fire in the Blue Mountains, not the best of shots here, but you can see the white tank suspended in the cables, which holds the foam concentrate.
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Australian Fire Season
G'day to all,
I know I've asked the question before , but is there any info,news or are there any views out there on this years fire season?
Last year this time I knew allot more about the expected season than I do this year.
I know I've asked the question before , but is there any info,news or are there any views out there on this years fire season?
Last year this time I knew allot more about the expected season than I do this year.
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I've heard John Mac. is a front runner for a contract and also may be looking at obtaining some more aircraft.
I believe some requirements include a lifting capability of around 9000 liters and carrying of 15-20 pax to be elligible.
Like I said I'm not 100% sure but Ned maybe able to shed a bit more light when he returns from the US.
I hope John is successful he deserves it for showing initiative and putting all his money on the line to purchase the 214B's and the 204's gives locals priority for employment if suitable and it would be nice if the Howard regime aknowledge that.
Fly safe
I believe some requirements include a lifting capability of around 9000 liters and carrying of 15-20 pax to be elligible.
Like I said I'm not 100% sure but Ned maybe able to shed a bit more light when he returns from the US.
I hope John is successful he deserves it for showing initiative and putting all his money on the line to purchase the 214B's and the 204's gives locals priority for employment if suitable and it would be nice if the Howard regime aknowledge that.
Fly safe
According to todays Sunday Age, here, , Phil Koperburg is somewhat pessimistic.
Article says (for those who, like me, find the Age's web site slower than Charlie time on Ripple 3 at 0300),
"The next bushfire season in NSW could be worse than last year as much of the state was still dry from the drought, Rural Fire Service Commissioner Phil Koperberg said yesterday.
However, he said the Rural Fire Service and the National Parks and Wildlife Service were confident that their off-season strategic hazard reduction measures would prepare them for the worst.
NSW Premier Bob Carr and Emergency Services Minister Tony Kelly yesterday joined the fire chief at a burn-off at Galston Gorge, north of Sydney.
Mr Carr said such efforts by volunteer firefighters were vital if the state was to be prepared for another hot, dry summer.
"You can't have a scorched earth policy, fire is part of the Australian landscape," Mr Carr said. "What this is about is strategic intervention to minimise the risk to communities, conducted in a responsible way."
Commissioner Koperberg said 2 million hectares of land across NSW had been burned as a result of either wildfire or hazard reduction over the past 12 months. But a large part of the state was still susceptible to fire.
"Given the fact that 89 per cent of NSW has slipped back into drought and given the fact that meteorologists are talking about the possibility of a re-emerging El Nino effect, then we can't dismiss the possibility of either this drought extending or us slipping back into drought (completely)," Commissioner Koperberg said.
"If that's the case then much of NSW will continue to be exposed to probably marginally worse prospects for the fire season."
He said weather was the obvious factor in any fire season and it was hoped optimum conditions would continue for the Rural Fire Service to reduce fuel loads on 200,000 hectares before summer.
- AAP"
Chief Pilot briefings for the season start in two weeks
Article says (for those who, like me, find the Age's web site slower than Charlie time on Ripple 3 at 0300),
"The next bushfire season in NSW could be worse than last year as much of the state was still dry from the drought, Rural Fire Service Commissioner Phil Koperberg said yesterday.
However, he said the Rural Fire Service and the National Parks and Wildlife Service were confident that their off-season strategic hazard reduction measures would prepare them for the worst.
NSW Premier Bob Carr and Emergency Services Minister Tony Kelly yesterday joined the fire chief at a burn-off at Galston Gorge, north of Sydney.
Mr Carr said such efforts by volunteer firefighters were vital if the state was to be prepared for another hot, dry summer.
"You can't have a scorched earth policy, fire is part of the Australian landscape," Mr Carr said. "What this is about is strategic intervention to minimise the risk to communities, conducted in a responsible way."
Commissioner Koperberg said 2 million hectares of land across NSW had been burned as a result of either wildfire or hazard reduction over the past 12 months. But a large part of the state was still susceptible to fire.
"Given the fact that 89 per cent of NSW has slipped back into drought and given the fact that meteorologists are talking about the possibility of a re-emerging El Nino effect, then we can't dismiss the possibility of either this drought extending or us slipping back into drought (completely)," Commissioner Koperberg said.
"If that's the case then much of NSW will continue to be exposed to probably marginally worse prospects for the fire season."
He said weather was the obvious factor in any fire season and it was hoped optimum conditions would continue for the Rural Fire Service to reduce fuel loads on 200,000 hectares before summer.
- AAP"
Chief Pilot briefings for the season start in two weeks
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Latest I have heard is that AFAC (Federal guys who issued the contract invites) still havent got off their backsides and made decisions. All the operators I have spoken to have said they have had no responses from their attempts to get info from AFAC. Some of the contenders are as follows. These are only a few, and there are many more.
Scorpion - Running Mi-26s and Mi-8s.
Heli Aust - Bell 205s and also proposing Mi-17s.
Superior Helicopter - Up to Four Kmaxs.
Heli Resources/Heli Harvest - B3 Astar and Mi-8s.
Heliquip - Bell 212 and BO-105
Columbia Helicopters - Chinooks/107s
McDermotts - 214s and 204s (maybe 212s)
Erickson - Aircranes
Plus whatever other operators are going for. I know their intentions are good but AFAC are not doing themselves any favours by not responding to operators enquiries. Was talking to Johnny Mac the other day and he said it is impossible to get any info out of them, and he is one of the contenders. Doesnt instil any confidence in them does it. Maybe they are taking a leaf out of CASA's book.
John Eacott might have had some feedback.
I know they are trying to move away from the Bell 206/Hughes 500 series for waterbombing and sticking to the mediums for this, with the lights being used for air attack and related tasks.
I applaude their idea and cut them some slack for their first attempt but they need to get their act together otherwise the industry will give up on them, basically like CASA.
Capt Lai Hai - Johnny for his belly tanks for the 214s certified recently and am going to have a look at them as soon as I get back from my trip to the US of A.
Scorpion - Running Mi-26s and Mi-8s.
Heli Aust - Bell 205s and also proposing Mi-17s.
Superior Helicopter - Up to Four Kmaxs.
Heli Resources/Heli Harvest - B3 Astar and Mi-8s.
Heliquip - Bell 212 and BO-105
Columbia Helicopters - Chinooks/107s
McDermotts - 214s and 204s (maybe 212s)
Erickson - Aircranes
Plus whatever other operators are going for. I know their intentions are good but AFAC are not doing themselves any favours by not responding to operators enquiries. Was talking to Johnny Mac the other day and he said it is impossible to get any info out of them, and he is one of the contenders. Doesnt instil any confidence in them does it. Maybe they are taking a leaf out of CASA's book.
John Eacott might have had some feedback.
I know they are trying to move away from the Bell 206/Hughes 500 series for waterbombing and sticking to the mediums for this, with the lights being used for air attack and related tasks.
I applaude their idea and cut them some slack for their first attempt but they need to get their act together otherwise the industry will give up on them, basically like CASA.
Capt Lai Hai - Johnny for his belly tanks for the 214s certified recently and am going to have a look at them as soon as I get back from my trip to the US of A.
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from ABC News
Anyone know what type? Who's operating it?
Water bombing helicopter dispatched to Canberra
At least one water bombing helicopter is to be based in Canberra as part of the new national firefighting strategy.
The helicopter will be on call over the summer for outbreaks in the ACT and surrounding New South Wales.
However, a local consortium says it is struggling to get any interest in its proposal to operate an additional fleet of water bombing planes.
Consortium spokesman Murray Masling says the national scheme is flawed.
"At this stage it appears that the national strategy as a whole is geared around helicopters alone and yet there are operations, a Victorian operation over many years, have had a great success with fixed wing and also South Australia and, as I've mentioned, Western Australia as well," he said.
At least one water bombing helicopter is to be based in Canberra as part of the new national firefighting strategy.
The helicopter will be on call over the summer for outbreaks in the ACT and surrounding New South Wales.
However, a local consortium says it is struggling to get any interest in its proposal to operate an additional fleet of water bombing planes.
Consortium spokesman Murray Masling says the national scheme is flawed.
"At this stage it appears that the national strategy as a whole is geared around helicopters alone and yet there are operations, a Victorian operation over many years, have had a great success with fixed wing and also South Australia and, as I've mentioned, Western Australia as well," he said.
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Hope you dont bring Mikey Sherlock back as he spent most of the time at the Nickolls Helibase getting massages from the massuse who stopped by to lend a 'helping hand' to the poor tired helicopter pilots .
Have great incriminating photographic evidence of Mikey if you need it
Have great incriminating photographic evidence of Mikey if you need it
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Does anybody know whats going on with the RFS. Only heard yesterday that they have had the Preseason pilots briefing.
What was said at the briefings???Normal Stuff?
What has happened to the EOI that was online???
What was said at the briefings???Normal Stuff?
What has happened to the EOI that was online???
DC,
Briefings were last week, at Bankstown, Wagga & Armidale. It/they covered much of the same, plus a heads up on proposed changes from next year (eg hi vis MRB scheme will become mandatory).
Briefings were last week, at Bankstown, Wagga & Armidale. It/they covered much of the same, plus a heads up on proposed changes from next year (eg hi vis MRB scheme will become mandatory).
DC,
Never have been mandatory in NSW, just "preferred". Same as sirens and a few other minor bits. Also, the registration procedure will now only require notification of changes since last year, instead of having to provide a complete re write of previous submissions.
Never have been mandatory in NSW, just "preferred". Same as sirens and a few other minor bits. Also, the registration procedure will now only require notification of changes since last year, instead of having to provide a complete re write of previous submissions.
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Surely the RFS must be smoking their sox if they think I'm going to put paint on my new blades Do they specify that hiviz blades have to have stripes on?
Do they specify that hiviz blades have to have stripes on?
You bought new blades without a hi vis paint scheme? Most can be specified with an approved hi vis scheme, or can be re painted. What RFS require specifically, maybe you'd better ask them. Me, I've bought the 206 blades with the hi vis option, and painted the Kwaka blades iaw the KHI approved mod.
On an aside, ISTR that the military established that the best blade scheme for hi visibility is to have an odd blade, or create a flicker effect. Why is it that manufacturers seem locked into schemes that simply create red and white circles within the disc, as with tail rotors? I wanted to modify the Kwaka scheme, and was faced with having to get Reg 35 engineering approval, plus a letter from the Queen Mum to do so
On an aside, ISTR that the military established that the best blade scheme for hi visibility is to have an odd blade, or create a flicker effect. Why is it that manufacturers seem locked into schemes that simply create red and white circles within the disc, as with tail rotors? I wanted to modify the Kwaka scheme, and was faced with having to get Reg 35 engineering approval, plus a letter from the Queen Mum to do so