BO 105 - Good, Bad or just Ugly?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ....


.... It has excellent tail rotor authority and you boot it about with big loads on ....

Gee .... I'm not so sure about this statement ... certainly the aircraft acts in a benign manner whilst you have 'full left pedal in' and it starts rotating gently to the right ... BUT excellent T/R authority ???? .... Nah!

Having said that .... Certainly later versions with the Bk 'C' T/R blades are much better than the earlier versions.

[DeltaNg]

still better than an Explorer though

[tbc]

Dear DeltaNG, except for:

cockpit room
cyclic control ergonomics
dual collective
visibility
rotor brake
CAT A Performance
engine bay fire warnings
engine chip warnings
engine starting on cold mornings
engine starting when hot
static interference on radios when damp
landing lamps
instrumentation
cockpit lighting
vibration
cabin space
seat belts
crash resistance
loading patients
treating patients
cockpit door holding open devices
vibration during landing
MMI
generator failure drills
cowling catches in cold weather
ground looping during tail rotor emergency training
oil leaks
hydraulic micro switches
the endless 2 minute run downs
the main gearbox sight glass
fitting the nitesun
removing the nitesun
forgetting to change the switch when the nitesun was fitted
testing all those CAT A profiles on OPCs
those really quiet windscreen wipers
starter generator quill shafts
the battery cowling pip pins
the tail rotor control boot
the fantastic heater system

But you know what - I loved flying it.

But give me an Explorer anyday.

[DeltaNg]

oh yeah all those things are true

But you can't beat flying it !!

And you can't deny it's been an excellent workhouse - esp in the lighthouse world - england scotand ireland and wales !!!

[bolkow]

yep great at lighthouses and some have 20000 hours under their belt by way of evidence. Do they really bend that much with a sling load that you can see a crack under the door???

[griffothefog]

As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on the explorer until Trinity House have given it a good thrashing on a heaving deck in a good swell, lifting 50-100 sling loads to the lights

Time will tell....... watch this space with interest

And yes Bolkow, they provide a great ashtray through the door gaps when you are lifting !!

[bolkow]

I'm with griff on this one. The coast around here in the winter will quickly sort the toy helicopters from the real tough ones. Thing comes down to in my mind, that the bolkow is a "known entity" in this environement, and the Explorer remains to be tested.

[AnFI]

Lost opportunity ... ?

Would the Bo105 have been extremely successful if they had made a single engined version?

Imagine robust AND powerful/simple.

The Squirrel was 'made' by the single - which I think outsells the twin by a factor of about 10 to 1. .... good economics?

.... well the world has moved on .....

[Thud_and_Blunder]

D'you know what, tbc - you're not often wrong, but you're (mostly) right this time! Don't know why PAS never fitted the proper door hold-open devices to their fleet, mine worked beautifully in 38 knots of wind on Ardnamurchan earlier today.

You didn't mention mixing CECO/Bendix starters in the same fleet, btw. Or an inspection step that takes a bite out of the sliding door. Or sliding door screw-in devices which gouge grooves in the door-frame. Or even a fuel contents system which a) denies you accurate information, and b) PARTICULARLY denies you accurate information in the one part of the main tank where you'd particularly like to know how much fuel you have. At least PAS never had to suffer the CAA-mandated backup fuel system, now (thank suitable deity OR Dir of Engineering, as appropriate) removed from all aircraft. As for Bo105 cowling catches vs MD902 - I think we'll call that one a draw, or maybe (just maybe...) one in the Bolkow's favour.

As with many of the other contributors here, I do think Billy Bolkow will be a very hard act to follow in the lighthouse role. I still dearly miss the 902, especially for Air Amb work, but am glad they're giving the job of making it succeed on the lighthouses to a grown-up. Probably.

[bolkow]

Regarding lighthouses I do know the Irish have been operating an EC135T2+ for just over a year now on the lighthouses as a bolkow replacement. Registration EI-ILS. Watched part of an operation one day in Rosslare and apart from a very small boot and an angle on it that tends to let things fall out soon as you open the boot, at that time I did not hear any other negative comments about it. It was operating as a 7 seater including the single pilot. I just assumed the others (Trinity House and the Northern Lighthouse board) would use the same replacement and wonder if there some negative feedback on that EC135 as I cant imagine they would not have been paying close attention and consideration to its operation. Anyone heard opinions at all on that years worth of experience to date in the Irish scene?

[DeltaNg]

Unfortunately in the end it all counted for nil, and the cheaper bid combined with the miraculous NOTAR system meant PAS were selected.

[cyclic]

I would have thought that the only real problem with the 135 is the height of the tail particularly for the NLB. Their operation has a lot of "rough ground" sites and a high tail is a distinct advantage. Apparently the high skids option can't be used with floats otherwise this would have sorted the problem.

[bolkow]

The height of the tail has been an issue at some lighthouse landing pads. I know of one that had a very low hand rail at the pad, which was a worry in terms of its proximity to the rear helicopter tail fairing until it was cut off (the handrail!)

[tbc]

DeltaNG:

Why do you call it the "miraculous NOTAR system"?

[DeltaNg]

Because you can reverse an Explorer into a lighthouse or a crane unlike a conventional helicopter.

[tbc]

Yeah Right!!

[DeltaNg]

That was one of the main selling points to Trinity House - ie extra safety in the tail area.

Never mind yaw control considerations into some of the most hairy and hostile LS's you have ever seen.

[bolkow]

But the bolkows have high tail rotors and the EC135 has the fenestron which makes it quite safer than others. What I do not understand is that the capacity of the machine they are getting seems to be much greater than that required to run pairs of people to offshore settings which is about as high density as it usually gets in that job unless the commissions are doing their annual 12 man inspections.

[tbc]

DeltaNG:

I have to ask mate - where did you fly the Explorer?

[DeltaNg]

I don't fly an Explorer - but I do know about Lighthouse ops in a Bolkow, so I know the hellholes where you are going to fly it. I know a lot of people who have flown them and fast and responsive yaw control is not top of the list. When you are carrying a big unstable 800kg load and the aircraft takes a completelyt uncommanded 45 degree yaw to the right due to weird and wonderful welsh turbulance - all I can say is good luck, Trinity Ops is very rough, very windy and very very turbulent. It is very interesting to say the least. Good luck with it and I hope it all works out, I'm sure the Explorer is a great machine in many respects but it sure is going to get a battering come 1st Dec. Be very, very careful.