AAC sink or swim.
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Ack2Main,
from what I hear it is true, and good luck to them! As bitter a pill as it is for some of us to swallow this proves that NCOs are of the same quality as Officers throughout the Services.
As far as it being the demise of the AAC I believe they will continue to operate with the rank structure they already have very effectively.
from what I hear it is true, and good luck to them! As bitter a pill as it is for some of us to swallow this proves that NCOs are of the same quality as Officers throughout the Services.
As far as it being the demise of the AAC I believe they will continue to operate with the rank structure they already have very effectively.
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This week the Booty NCO pilots have mostly been commissioned. If they want it anyway.Most of them have taken the RN up on a very good offer.
As for this being the end for the NCO pilot in the AAC I think NOT. Maybe it is time that the penny pincher's at the MOD looked at why the RAF fly commissioned officer front seaters on its rotary fleet.
[This message has been edited by A/Tpr Cooper (edited 25 January 2000).]
As for this being the end for the NCO pilot in the AAC I think NOT. Maybe it is time that the penny pincher's at the MOD looked at why the RAF fly commissioned officer front seaters on its rotary fleet.
[This message has been edited by A/Tpr Cooper (edited 25 January 2000).]
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I THINK THE RAF HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS OF THIER OWN WITHOUT BITCHING ABOUT OUR APACHE ONES. THEY WANT IT BECAUSE THEY ARE JEALOUS. WHO WOULDN'T! BUT CONSIDER THIS IF JHC MANAGE TO BIN THE LYNX FLEET LIKE THEY WANT TO, WE WILL ALL BE WEARING A BLUE SUIT SOON ANYWAY. AND THEN THEY WILL HAVE TO WORK WITH NCO AIRCREW, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PILOTS TO FLY THIER PUMAS CH-47'S EH101'S AS IT IS.
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TICU,
Word has it that the RAF pilot appointer has over a hundred qualified pilots from the other Services wanting to get into the RAF to fly helicopters. Of those over 60 are AAC pilots who can clearly see some greener grass!
The RAF isn't really 'short' of pilots, thats why it's not had to take up many of these applications. The only thing that they are becoming very short of is experience due to the increased turnover rate.
Regarding whether the RAF is "jealous" of the Apache, I'm sure there are few pilots who wouldn't want to fly it. This perception of jealousy is fuelled by the general belief that the Apache may be too complex for the REME and some of the AAC pilots and consequently it will take a very long time to generate a good operational capability - it doesn't mean that only the RAF could make it work!!
Look at the Americans; they keep their Apaches flying and some of their crews have a good capability, however, these are in the minority - remember Kosovo. They have hundreds and hundreds of ac but what's their serviceability rate?
What will have to change (and people at the top know it) are some of the attitudes in the AAC, particularly the Soldier First.... blah.
Word has it that the RAF pilot appointer has over a hundred qualified pilots from the other Services wanting to get into the RAF to fly helicopters. Of those over 60 are AAC pilots who can clearly see some greener grass!
The RAF isn't really 'short' of pilots, thats why it's not had to take up many of these applications. The only thing that they are becoming very short of is experience due to the increased turnover rate.
Regarding whether the RAF is "jealous" of the Apache, I'm sure there are few pilots who wouldn't want to fly it. This perception of jealousy is fuelled by the general belief that the Apache may be too complex for the REME and some of the AAC pilots and consequently it will take a very long time to generate a good operational capability - it doesn't mean that only the RAF could make it work!!
Look at the Americans; they keep their Apaches flying and some of their crews have a good capability, however, these are in the minority - remember Kosovo. They have hundreds and hundreds of ac but what's their serviceability rate?
What will have to change (and people at the top know it) are some of the attitudes in the AAC, particularly the Soldier First.... blah.
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Dear TICU, lets get a few things straight. Frankley, the rotary side of Royal Air Force does not want the Apache or the CAS associated with it. SH fleet carry out their mission to support the Army in a truley professional manner. As to manning, the front end and rear end crewing for the SH fleet is in reasonable order. Sure there is a shortfall (as there is in all three services), however the RAF (and the Navy I may add) is not in the deficit currently held by the AAC. As to Army SNCO/JNCO aircrew. No one doubts their ability as aircrew, they have been tested at RAF Cranwell found suitable form training and successfully passed the APC. If YOU want a Commission in the Armed Forces be it in the AAC, the Navy or the Royal Air Force you have to prove your worth and earn it. Have you got what it takes, take a long look at yourself and then truthfully answer that question. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, but the JHC was originally an Army concept and believe me, you are safe in your own colour of uniform. The Apache will stay with the Army and will (eventually) be a success, no doubt with Army SNCO's crewing it. However please enjoy the exercises in Poland, Im told its nice this time of year, with snow and all the potatoes you can eat.
And finally, yes the Apache program seems to have moved to the right. I am reliably informed that the first one (Apache) arrives on March 31st and then departs off to Boscombe on April 1st. The next one does not then arrive until August/September time due to Westlands being a little behind.
PS; TICU, writing in capitals is tantamount to shouting and considered somewhat rude in most forums. Also either get a spool chucker or dictionary to help with the spelling.
[This message has been edited by HeliAv8tor (edited 11 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by HeliAv8tor (edited 12 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by HeliAv8tor (edited 12 February 2000).]
And finally, yes the Apache program seems to have moved to the right. I am reliably informed that the first one (Apache) arrives on March 31st and then departs off to Boscombe on April 1st. The next one does not then arrive until August/September time due to Westlands being a little behind.
PS; TICU, writing in capitals is tantamount to shouting and considered somewhat rude in most forums. Also either get a spool chucker or dictionary to help with the spelling.
[This message has been edited by HeliAv8tor (edited 11 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by HeliAv8tor (edited 12 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by HeliAv8tor (edited 12 February 2000).]
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How on earth do do "they" think we can cope with the Apache when we can't keep our current fleet in the air due to lack of money, parts and manpower to maintain them.
An interesting time lies ahead.......how long before someone mentions the re-birth of the Royal Flying Coprs!
An interesting time lies ahead.......how long before someone mentions the re-birth of the Royal Flying Coprs!
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Hugh, old chap,
I am very interested in this concept of the "Royal Flying Coprs". Might I be correct in thinking that this is some of almagamation of the Special Branch Royalty protection division, Flying Squad and Police Aviation.
Good thinking, excellent initiative. You are the kind of Man that HM PPRuNe is looking for. Save the taxpayer money, efficiency, all that sort of stuff.
Good Work, great idea.
I am very interested in this concept of the "Royal Flying Coprs". Might I be correct in thinking that this is some of almagamation of the Special Branch Royalty protection division, Flying Squad and Police Aviation.
Good thinking, excellent initiative. You are the kind of Man that HM PPRuNe is looking for. Save the taxpayer money, efficiency, all that sort of stuff.
Good Work, great idea.
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Oh dear. Can you tell me where you got your spell checker from HeliAv8tor because, Frankley it,s abillity to sucessfully spoll chick is truley limited, all things concidered.
What did you edit I wonder!!!!
[This message has been edited by PurplePitot (edited 12 February 2000).]
What did you edit I wonder!!!!
[This message has been edited by PurplePitot (edited 12 February 2000).]
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Cyclic Hotline.........not quite,
By amalgamating the AAC and RAF, the figures would imply: more serviceable aircraft, more current and competent aircrew and less spares problems.
Of course, the old farts in charge would have to be thinned out a bit, but I fear it would be the ex Army that would lead such a re-born force.
One of the bonuses is that all NCO aircrew would have to be commissioned, or at the very least become Warrant Officer spec aircrew............no chance!
Hugh
By amalgamating the AAC and RAF, the figures would imply: more serviceable aircraft, more current and competent aircrew and less spares problems.
Of course, the old farts in charge would have to be thinned out a bit, but I fear it would be the ex Army that would lead such a re-born force.
One of the bonuses is that all NCO aircrew would have to be commissioned, or at the very least become Warrant Officer spec aircrew............no chance!
Hugh
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heliav8tor i wish you wouldnt refer to the WAH64D's job as CAS, because if you bothered to look into its role then you would see it is not CAS. But much the same as the good old LYNX. ANTI ARMOUR. As for SH I only wished that the crews would realise that they are there as battlefield taxi's. That is not meant to sound condescendings but truthful. After all it was the army that funded the SH fleet.
as for the date sliping sideways the program is still on course, with boscombe having three aircraft by june00 thats from ETPS themselves.
as for the date sliping sideways the program is still on course, with boscombe having three aircraft by june00 thats from ETPS themselves.
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Dear roprick, thank you. Apart from the so called "Battle of Box Hill" when did the Anti-Armour Lynx of the AAC shoot anything other than various targets on ranges. The so called "battle" was cardboard decoys. You (the AAC) have yet to engage a target that shoots back!
As to SH being battlefield taxis, if you call the ability of the Chinook HC2 to lift 9.5 Tonne with full fuel in support of the Army a taxi, then I bow to your superior knowledge. The Lynx and the Gazelle seem to carry out the battlefield taxi role on a regular basis, when serviceable that is.
Lets face it we are all support of the guys on the ground and I hope we all do it to the best of our ability.
As to SH being battlefield taxis, if you call the ability of the Chinook HC2 to lift 9.5 Tonne with full fuel in support of the Army a taxi, then I bow to your superior knowledge. The Lynx and the Gazelle seem to carry out the battlefield taxi role on a regular basis, when serviceable that is.
Lets face it we are all support of the guys on the ground and I hope we all do it to the best of our ability.
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Can I draw your attention to the Battle for Objective Platinum on 26 Feb 1991 where I believe tanks and MTLBs were destroyed by AAC Anti-tank Lynx?
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Never Pass Gas.....
[This message has been edited by Pete O'Tewbe (edited 13 February 2000).]
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Never Pass Gas.....
[This message has been edited by Pete O'Tewbe (edited 13 February 2000).]
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Hi Torque Throbber. Your post is guaranteed to excite the chaps somewhat! Can I say that I retired last year as a WO2 having flown various types in the AAC for the last 20 years, my final pay cheque put me on 37K plus or minus, which equates to a regular non flying (non flying pay at least) Major with some four years seniority. Your sums simply don’t add up old boy. How was I cheaper?
What p*****s me off of course is the miserly pension that reflects rank and not pay but that’s another story……..
Like it or lump it? It took me 13 weeks from start to finish to get my ATP, I am now on the same pay as when I left plus a wedge in the bank and a fat(ish) pension. You of course can stag on in Kosovo – Well Done!!!
What p*****s me off of course is the miserly pension that reflects rank and not pay but that’s another story……..
Like it or lump it? It took me 13 weeks from start to finish to get my ATP, I am now on the same pay as when I left plus a wedge in the bank and a fat(ish) pension. You of course can stag on in Kosovo – Well Done!!!