AAC sink or swim.
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Heliav8tor
I dont want to get into a slagging match but it just really grips my s**t when I here people getting on there high horse and slagging down something that I am part of. If only we could be all failed fast get jet pilots like yourself. But at least the army has given me a chance to fly for which I'm very grateful for.
do you feel threatened that non commsioned type do the same job as you get a life.
you seem that you would of been more at home in waterloo. I would of said the Battle of Britain but that was mostly NCO air crew.
As for box hill learn the facts first.
when has the mighty chinook fired in anger, oh thats right never.
sorry if the coment about taxi's hurt, but as they say the truth hurts.
I really think that you dont like the idea of us getting WAH64D well sorry but you will never know what it is like to fly an attack helicopter, stick to the taxi service. sorry if i have offended any of you decent puma or chinook drivers i know you are not all like heliav8tor.
I dont want to get into a slagging match but it just really grips my s**t when I here people getting on there high horse and slagging down something that I am part of. If only we could be all failed fast get jet pilots like yourself. But at least the army has given me a chance to fly for which I'm very grateful for.
do you feel threatened that non commsioned type do the same job as you get a life.
you seem that you would of been more at home in waterloo. I would of said the Battle of Britain but that was mostly NCO air crew.
As for box hill learn the facts first.
when has the mighty chinook fired in anger, oh thats right never.
sorry if the coment about taxi's hurt, but as they say the truth hurts.
I really think that you dont like the idea of us getting WAH64D well sorry but you will never know what it is like to fly an attack helicopter, stick to the taxi service. sorry if i have offended any of you decent puma or chinook drivers i know you are not all like heliav8tor.
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Cool it dudes!
Crab Taxi driver - it's your choosen profession, live with it.
I heard from a QHI course mate who was in a Gaz at box hill they knew after the second photon that it was a decoy, there was a danger of an outbreak of peace so it was 'steam removal' All three services and 5 nations were at that bun fight so don't throw stones.
NCO 'ace Army pilot' - you should have done better at school! A legend in your own Naafi break. A VC-10 driver hasn't shot anyone down in the last 50 years either (not counting BEagle and his mates on Mil Pilots forum)He is just as (and I venture heaps more)professional at his job as you are.
Now stop bickering and get back to whining incessantly about things that don't matter like pay and conditions.
[This message has been edited by stas-fan (edited 16 February 2000).]
Crab Taxi driver - it's your choosen profession, live with it.
I heard from a QHI course mate who was in a Gaz at box hill they knew after the second photon that it was a decoy, there was a danger of an outbreak of peace so it was 'steam removal' All three services and 5 nations were at that bun fight so don't throw stones.
NCO 'ace Army pilot' - you should have done better at school! A legend in your own Naafi break. A VC-10 driver hasn't shot anyone down in the last 50 years either (not counting BEagle and his mates on Mil Pilots forum)He is just as (and I venture heaps more)professional at his job as you are.
Now stop bickering and get back to whining incessantly about things that don't matter like pay and conditions.
[This message has been edited by stas-fan (edited 16 February 2000).]
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HeliAv8tor, I suggest you get down to the AAC museum and get a copy of the painting of the attack on Objective Platinum. 4 T62s and 2 or 3 MTLBs was the final score I believe 
You can also buy one of the refuel and rearm afterwards if you like(I'm in that one).
Cyclic Hotline, the Battle of Box Hill was an attack by 661 (I think, Alzhiemers you know) Sqn AAC on an Iraqi position. It was only afterwards that it was discovered to be a decoy position.
[This message has been edited by MightyGem (edited 20 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by MightyGem (edited 20 February 2000).]
You can also buy one of the refuel and rearm afterwards if you like(I'm in that one).
Cyclic Hotline, the Battle of Box Hill was an attack by 661 (I think, Alzhiemers you know) Sqn AAC on an Iraqi position. It was only afterwards that it was discovered to be a decoy position.
[This message has been edited by MightyGem (edited 20 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by MightyGem (edited 20 February 2000).]
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Oh dear, this string is all getting a bit sad. Roprick - dear chap, I have been a SNCO and a Warrant Officer in The Corps, flown most types that The Corps had to offer, paid back in spades by means of service, the training given to me and moved on in life doing what I like to do best, fly.
Ive said it before in this string, let the AAC do the job it is good at and the RAF likewise.
As to Op Platinum, sorry guys the memory is a bit jaded. Old age catching up on me, so I'll take that one on the chin.
Safe aviating ya all.
Ive said it before in this string, let the AAC do the job it is good at and the RAF likewise.
As to Op Platinum, sorry guys the memory is a bit jaded. Old age catching up on me, so I'll take that one on the chin.
Safe aviating ya all.
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If a company starts to use a different countries hardware, surely then, the crew concept used by that country would have been adopted also.
Afterall the US has properly employed helis in more hostile circumstances and know the worth of their aircrew, more than the UK army.
So here is to all the new WO4's (NCO)on presentation of wings, and every 3 years onward and upward to WO3, WO2, WO1. Then ??
or(b), would across the road really want to upset the ground spikes as they are so important.
Tail wags the dog
Afterall the US has properly employed helis in more hostile circumstances and know the worth of their aircrew, more than the UK army.
So here is to all the new WO4's (NCO)on presentation of wings, and every 3 years onward and upward to WO3, WO2, WO1. Then ??
or(b), would across the road really want to upset the ground spikes as they are so important.
Tail wags the dog
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Nice one, Wile E Coyote. You reckon that's likely to happen? In our dreams! But seriously, it's something that should've happened long ago. Just like certain qualifications in other Corps attract "instant" promotion, so sould the APC (REME Artificer, RA SMIG). At the very least QHI's. I'm not advocating increased pay, I'd happily remain at the same pay, but the kudos is equally as important.
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Hmm. You need to research your subject a little better Mr Coyote. The US do use Warrant Officer ranks and as a concept it works very well but there are a few pitfalls. Namely:
Direct entry to flight school from civilian life. Clearly this would deny the AAC the great deal of experience gained from its E3 policy which compliments the commissioned officers, who of course, did come straight from civi street. In addition, any student chopped from US FS automatically gets to serve three years as a PFC – Not an attractive proposition.
The rank structure is reversed ie: WO1 is the most junior with WO4 a very senior rank indeed. Woe betide anybody, commissioned or otherwise, who run up against one of these guys (normally Vietnam vets and every conflict in between). This system could not possibly work in an armed force that has just dragged itself into the 20th Century only to find everyone else thinks they’re in the 21st. (which of course happens next year, but that’s another thread!)
I am not convinced the US always use their helicopters properly. Albania being a good example, they lost two just flying there, crashed a third in training and then realised they couldn’t get over the mountain range into Kosovo anyway. The US always lost 2 or 3 64s on it’s Reforger exercises in Germany which brings into question the quality of the US training. Their pilots are not leaders, they are followers, they do not think for themselves and are poles apart from their European counterparts.
I think the AAC know very well the worth of all of their pilots, not just the NCO variety, they are acutely aware of the problems but are clearly frustrated at every turn by the New Labour treasury and a deep reluctance to change within the Army as a whole (Institutionalised Conservatism??)
Remember also, that there are a lot of very well qualified and very clever NCO types in the army as a whole playing with all sorts of specialised equipment who arguably have a better claim than pilots for a shake up in the system – Because at the end of the day, flying helicopters is pretty easy!!
Direct entry to flight school from civilian life. Clearly this would deny the AAC the great deal of experience gained from its E3 policy which compliments the commissioned officers, who of course, did come straight from civi street. In addition, any student chopped from US FS automatically gets to serve three years as a PFC – Not an attractive proposition.
The rank structure is reversed ie: WO1 is the most junior with WO4 a very senior rank indeed. Woe betide anybody, commissioned or otherwise, who run up against one of these guys (normally Vietnam vets and every conflict in between). This system could not possibly work in an armed force that has just dragged itself into the 20th Century only to find everyone else thinks they’re in the 21st. (which of course happens next year, but that’s another thread!)
I am not convinced the US always use their helicopters properly. Albania being a good example, they lost two just flying there, crashed a third in training and then realised they couldn’t get over the mountain range into Kosovo anyway. The US always lost 2 or 3 64s on it’s Reforger exercises in Germany which brings into question the quality of the US training. Their pilots are not leaders, they are followers, they do not think for themselves and are poles apart from their European counterparts.
I think the AAC know very well the worth of all of their pilots, not just the NCO variety, they are acutely aware of the problems but are clearly frustrated at every turn by the New Labour treasury and a deep reluctance to change within the Army as a whole (Institutionalised Conservatism??)
Remember also, that there are a lot of very well qualified and very clever NCO types in the army as a whole playing with all sorts of specialised equipment who arguably have a better claim than pilots for a shake up in the system – Because at the end of the day, flying helicopters is pretty easy!!
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Hmm. You need to research your subject a little better Mr Coyote. The US do use Warrant Officer ranks and as a concept it works very well but there are a few pitfalls. Namely:
Direct entry to flight school from civilian life. Clearly this would deny the AAC the great deal of experience gained from its E3 policy which compliments the commissioned officers, who of course, did come straight from civi street. In addition, any student chopped from US FS automatically gets to serve three years as a PFC – Not an attractive proposition.
The rank structure is reversed ie: WO1 is the most junior with WO4 a very senior rank indeed. Woe betide anybody, commissioned or otherwise, who run up against one of these guys (normally Vietnam vets and every conflict in between). This system could not possibly work in an armed force that has just dragged itself into the 20th Century only to find everyone else thinks they’re in the 21st. (which of course happens next year, but that’s another thread!)
I am not convinced the US always use their helicopters properly. Albania being a good example, they lost two just flying there, crashed a third in training and then realised they couldn’t get over the mountain range into Kosovo anyway. The US always lost 2 or 3 64s on it’s Reforger exercises in Germany which brings into question the quality of the US training. Their pilots are not leaders, they are followers, they do not think for themselves and are poles apart from their European counterparts.
I think the AAC know very well the worth of all of their pilots, not just the NCO variety, they are acutely aware of the problems but are clearly frustrated at every turn by the New Labour treasury and a deep reluctance to change within the Army as a whole (Institutionalised Conservatism??)
Remember also, that there are a lot of very well qualified and very clever NCO types in the army as a whole playing with all sorts of specialised equipment who arguably have a better claim than pilots for a shake up in the system – Because at the end of the day, flying helicopters is pretty easy!!
Direct entry to flight school from civilian life. Clearly this would deny the AAC the great deal of experience gained from its E3 policy which compliments the commissioned officers, who of course, did come straight from civi street. In addition, any student chopped from US FS automatically gets to serve three years as a PFC – Not an attractive proposition.
The rank structure is reversed ie: WO1 is the most junior with WO4 a very senior rank indeed. Woe betide anybody, commissioned or otherwise, who run up against one of these guys (normally Vietnam vets and every conflict in between). This system could not possibly work in an armed force that has just dragged itself into the 20th Century only to find everyone else thinks they’re in the 21st. (which of course happens next year, but that’s another thread!)
I am not convinced the US always use their helicopters properly. Albania being a good example, they lost two just flying there, crashed a third in training and then realised they couldn’t get over the mountain range into Kosovo anyway. The US always lost 2 or 3 64s on it’s Reforger exercises in Germany which brings into question the quality of the US training. Their pilots are not leaders, they are followers, they do not think for themselves and are poles apart from their European counterparts.
I think the AAC know very well the worth of all of their pilots, not just the NCO variety, they are acutely aware of the problems but are clearly frustrated at every turn by the New Labour treasury and a deep reluctance to change within the Army as a whole (Institutionalised Conservatism??)
Remember also, that there are a lot of very well qualified and very clever NCO types in the army as a whole playing with all sorts of specialised equipment who arguably have a better claim than pilots for a shake up in the system – Because at the end of the day, flying helicopters is pretty easy!!
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REQUEST FROM YOUR MODERATOR:
There are a number of threads which deal with military helicopter adventures which are totally unintelligible to civilians - this one being a case in point
.
Please move to the military form with these topics. If your topic deals with military helicopters in particular, you can always post a brief note on this forum to alert those with an interest in Apaches and such that a new topic is running on the military forum.
Keep the dirty side down.
There are a number of threads which deal with military helicopter adventures which are totally unintelligible to civilians - this one being a case in point
. Please move to the military form with these topics. If your topic deals with military helicopters in particular, you can always post a brief note on this forum to alert those with an interest in Apaches and such that a new topic is running on the military forum.
Keep the dirty side down
.
