To Auto or not to AUTO.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: Monterrey Mexico
What i ment
Is that i will not do the autos.
About getting into trouble not wanting to get into it, you bet i will still get into it, but it wont be intentional and i will do my best to fly that puppy all the way thru. About the outcome. I don't know. Can you tell me weather you will end up in a report or not? NO YOU CAN'T!, neather do i! But i do my best to keep my self out of trouble.
Just yesterday i was flying when suddently a bird came near the aircraft from the top. It scared the !!!! out of me, and i managed to avoid it. The thing is, you never know. But i can tell you that we can make aviation very safe, and keep it as the safest means of transportation.
About the 206 and the governor. I do plan ahead, and the governor does need some adjustment, its not the droop, because it was perfect 2 months ago, and temp hasn't changed much. And since the droop is a physical link, its probably the governor. If i am flying at 100%, after some time, i see the needle at 97% HUH? for about 10 seconds, then back at 100%...(no power change involved). The mechanic is checking this monday morning. No flying until then.
I might also need to work on being smoother, but if you put the collective down all the way to practice an autorotation LIKE scenario (without chopping the throttle), the NR will go up, no matter what, even in a 407. You might even split the needles. How much? it will depend on your setup, but it will!. Even with your throttle closed it will. In a 206, the N2 also increases a bit until the gov catches it. But it takes time.
Again thanks for the tips. And i will TRY to keep my self out of trouble. There...... Is that better stated now?
About getting into trouble not wanting to get into it, you bet i will still get into it, but it wont be intentional and i will do my best to fly that puppy all the way thru. About the outcome. I don't know. Can you tell me weather you will end up in a report or not? NO YOU CAN'T!, neather do i! But i do my best to keep my self out of trouble.
Just yesterday i was flying when suddently a bird came near the aircraft from the top. It scared the !!!! out of me, and i managed to avoid it. The thing is, you never know. But i can tell you that we can make aviation very safe, and keep it as the safest means of transportation.
About the 206 and the governor. I do plan ahead, and the governor does need some adjustment, its not the droop, because it was perfect 2 months ago, and temp hasn't changed much. And since the droop is a physical link, its probably the governor. If i am flying at 100%, after some time, i see the needle at 97% HUH? for about 10 seconds, then back at 100%...(no power change involved). The mechanic is checking this monday morning. No flying until then.
I might also need to work on being smoother, but if you put the collective down all the way to practice an autorotation LIKE scenario (without chopping the throttle), the NR will go up, no matter what, even in a 407. You might even split the needles. How much? it will depend on your setup, but it will!. Even with your throttle closed it will. In a 206, the N2 also increases a bit until the gov catches it. But it takes time.
Again thanks for the tips. And i will TRY to keep my self out of trouble. There...... Is that better stated now?
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO and the GOM
R22 is no Jet Ranger
Are you saying that a safe and realistic practice for autos in an R22 to power recovery can be made by leaving the governor on and simply lowering the collective without bothering to seperate the needles? Does this have much affect on glide distance?
Glide is the same needles split or no (or so close as to make no difference), but if you don't split the needles, it's much harder to keep the RPM from going out the top of the green.
The proper recovery technique is to allow the governor to take control and join the needles as you level, AFTER the flare. The recovery overspeeds happen because the pilot keeps twisting the throttle past 90% - once the engine RPM reaches 90%, the governor will do a much better job of controlling RPM than the pilot can.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: Monterrey Mexico
In the robbie
the autos are much more critical than on tha B206, so i would never try one unless you are with a CFI or have good experience. Just like i will on the 206B... Will not try.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 396
Likes: 1
From: US...for now.
Kikolobo:
So...with your huge 100 hours you're going to try to teach *me* about 206's?? Listen, sonny, my butt has left it's very considerable impression in more 206 seats for more hours than you could ever imagine. I've probably got more time in the 2-minute cooldown than you have total. So stop acting like the biggest 206 expert to ever leave Ft. Worth.
Here's the deal: If your RRPM goes high upon power reduction, high to the point where you get an N2/NR needle split, then your governor is working fine, ie. it's bringing the N2 back to 100%. But it's having to work too hard...for some...inexplicable...hmm...what could the reason be? Here's an idea, while your mechanic is checking out the governor, you might also want him to turn your auto rpm down. Sounds like it's much too high. With just a pilot and minimum fuel on board, it should be in the low green; the Bell maintenance manual will have the correct parameters. Having the auto rpm properly set in a 206 will help avoid overspeed problems when reducing collective pitch.
Auto rpm is one of "those areas" where pilots sometimes get mechanics to compromise. None of us really likes to see the auto rpm in the low green. Our brains tell us that the auto rpm simply *should* be 100%. But that's not the case, is it? The 206 operates at a wide range of weights, from oh, 2200 pounds or so up to 3350. So if we set our auto rpm for 100% at minimum weight, we'd be flinging the tip weights off and stretching the TT straps at 3350 as the NR tach tried to come back around to zero.
Kiko, sounds like your 206 needs a good tune-up. (Be sure to check the points and plugs while you're at it.)
I might also need to work on being smoother, but if you put the collective down all the way to practice an autorotation LIKE scenario (without chopping the throttle), the NR will go up, no matter what, even in a 407. You might even split the needles. How much? it will depend on your setup, but it will!. Even with your throttle closed it will. In a 206, the N2 also increases a bit until the gov catches it. But it takes time.
Here's the deal: If your RRPM goes high upon power reduction, high to the point where you get an N2/NR needle split, then your governor is working fine, ie. it's bringing the N2 back to 100%. But it's having to work too hard...for some...inexplicable...hmm...what could the reason be? Here's an idea, while your mechanic is checking out the governor, you might also want him to turn your auto rpm down. Sounds like it's much too high. With just a pilot and minimum fuel on board, it should be in the low green; the Bell maintenance manual will have the correct parameters. Having the auto rpm properly set in a 206 will help avoid overspeed problems when reducing collective pitch.
Auto rpm is one of "those areas" where pilots sometimes get mechanics to compromise. None of us really likes to see the auto rpm in the low green. Our brains tell us that the auto rpm simply *should* be 100%. But that's not the case, is it? The 206 operates at a wide range of weights, from oh, 2200 pounds or so up to 3350. So if we set our auto rpm for 100% at minimum weight, we'd be flinging the tip weights off and stretching the TT straps at 3350 as the NR tach tried to come back around to zero.
Kiko, sounds like your 206 needs a good tune-up. (Be sure to check the points and plugs while you're at it.)
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: Monterrey Mexico
Well.
It looks like i just can't make you happy PProneFan#1 
But thanks for the tips, i will sure find use for them. About the auto RPM, is good. Its within parameters, in my case i don't make my mechanics do compromises of any kind. They have the parameters i just check what they do.
I am not saying i am the biggest expert, or the biggest pilot, or whatever. I did not even say i was the best pilot but the whole oposite. (but i am good though ) I said i have to work on being smoother, more careful, etc, and all i get is a minor slap
Well here is one back
If you have more time in cool down than i do total, its because i am 25 years old, and i fly for fun not for commercial use, and now i fly my ship. I had been around helicopters all my life. Now i fly them, and enjoy it very much.
If i thought i was the greatest pilot why would i ask for questions here? I ask them because i embrace safety, and i learn mostly from other pilots like you and others that have more experience than i do. I hope i am not offending you, but i don't like getting slaped. Although i liked your tips, and information, its very usefull and will help me learn... JUST THE SLAPING THING...
But thanks for the tips, i will sure find use for them. About the auto RPM, is good. Its within parameters, in my case i don't make my mechanics do compromises of any kind. They have the parameters i just check what they do.I am not saying i am the biggest expert, or the biggest pilot, or whatever. I did not even say i was the best pilot but the whole oposite. (but i am good though
) I said i have to work on being smoother, more careful, etc, and all i get is a minor slap Well here is one back
If you have more time in cool down than i do total, its because i am 25 years old, and i fly for fun not for commercial use, and now i fly my ship. I had been around helicopters all my life. Now i fly them, and enjoy it very much.
If i thought i was the greatest pilot why would i ask for questions here? I ask them because i embrace safety, and i learn mostly from other pilots like you and others that have more experience than i do. I hope i am not offending you, but i don't like getting slaped. Although i liked your tips, and information, its very usefull and will help me learn... JUST THE SLAPING THING...
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: mostly in the jungle...
Kiko,
there is no question about it, GO and do autos every bit you have a chance! You only got 100 hrs and your own machine! If you fill it with people you are responsible for 4 more lifes, you should be good at emergencies!
BUT:
a. Don't do them in your own machine!
b. Go to a good school and rent a 206 with an instructor
c. For the time being do it every 2 weeks for 45-60 min at a time until you are REALLY comfortable with them!
d. I f you can afford your own 206 you can afford the training!
Besides better you damage their (hopefully insured) training machine than your own.
e. Blender is right, total hours say NOTHING about how good a pilot is, however at 100 hrs, your experience level is next to 0.
You may be comfortable with autos, but what if it becomes a bad one somewhere? Do you have the experience to recognice when things start to go wrong? Do you know when to abort?
SO do yourself the favor and go to a school and train with an instructor. When it gets 2nd nature reduce it to once per month and later to every 3 month, but not less.
You won't believe (yet) how fast you abilities in helicopters rust away!
Robinson's governor starts to work at 80% engine rpm.
So an auto is rather simple, as soon as you roll the throttle off, reduce it low enough to keep it below 80% and the auto is bonafide! You might have to adjust the throttle a couple of times as the correlator might rise the rpm...
After your flair and while you level the helicopter all you need to do is blip the throttle past 80% and the governor does the rest.
You want to be ready for a full touchdown in case the governor decides NOT to show for duty)
3top
there is no question about it, GO and do autos every bit you have a chance! You only got 100 hrs and your own machine! If you fill it with people you are responsible for 4 more lifes, you should be good at emergencies!
BUT:
a. Don't do them in your own machine!
b. Go to a good school and rent a 206 with an instructor
c. For the time being do it every 2 weeks for 45-60 min at a time until you are REALLY comfortable with them!
d. I f you can afford your own 206 you can afford the training!
Besides better you damage their (hopefully insured) training machine than your own.
e. Blender is right, total hours say NOTHING about how good a pilot is, however at 100 hrs, your experience level is next to 0.
You may be comfortable with autos, but what if it becomes a bad one somewhere? Do you have the experience to recognice when things start to go wrong? Do you know when to abort?
SO do yourself the favor and go to a school and train with an instructor. When it gets 2nd nature reduce it to once per month and later to every 3 month, but not less.
You won't believe (yet) how fast you abilities in helicopters rust away!
Robinson's governor starts to work at 80% engine rpm.
So an auto is rather simple, as soon as you roll the throttle off, reduce it low enough to keep it below 80% and the auto is bonafide! You might have to adjust the throttle a couple of times as the correlator might rise the rpm...
After your flair and while you level the helicopter all you need to do is blip the throttle past 80% and the governor does the rest.
You want to be ready for a full touchdown in case the governor decides NOT to show for duty
)3top
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: Monterrey Mexico
Thanks everyone!
Albatros, you rock!
Just now i just hung up the phone with an instructor at Bell Helicopter Trainning academy, to take a refresher soon. I do feel confortable with autos, but they are defenetly not second nature. I do need an instructor with me to play it safe (and a school heli), and you nail it, when you said i am responsible for 3 or 4 more lives.. That's what i most stay fresh...
I think the best thing is to get one hour every month on a school heli with an instructor to make autos become second nature. At least til i get to be 200 hours. Then i will keep the refreshers every 6 to 8 months.
Thanks.
Just now i just hung up the phone with an instructor at Bell Helicopter Trainning academy, to take a refresher soon. I do feel confortable with autos, but they are defenetly not second nature. I do need an instructor with me to play it safe (and a school heli), and you nail it, when you said i am responsible for 3 or 4 more lives.. That's what i most stay fresh...
I think the best thing is to get one hour every month on a school heli with an instructor to make autos become second nature. At least til i get to be 200 hours. Then i will keep the refreshers every 6 to 8 months.
Thanks.
