EC135
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Dragstay & Phoinix - you may wish to contact EC(UK), as they have a mod which mounts 5.6kgs onto the handling bracket on the rear of the fenestron. It was fitted to most of the early UK Police machines to correct the forward C of G of the "pod" system - I believe it's also fitted to a few of the newer machines too.
WLM - you may like to also consider a MIBS (Multi Integrated Bodysplint Stretcher), as this rolls up and is very lightweight. The strength to carry a patient is derived from rolling it (the other way) round the patient. This link should give you some idea - there are a number of variants, depending on use:Medical Stretcher
RVDT - just to question your comment about
- if you meant that you could pull power on the good engine above the AEO limits, I think you'll find that you should not use the OEI range unless actually OEI. To do so would be regarded as an over-torque by your maintenance organisation. For example, Note 2 of the FADEC FAIL caution clearly states "Do not exceed N1/Tq value of normal engine and aaeo limits"
WLM - you may like to also consider a MIBS (Multi Integrated Bodysplint Stretcher), as this rolls up and is very lightweight. The strength to carry a patient is derived from rolling it (the other way) round the patient. This link should give you some idea - there are a number of variants, depending on use:Medical Stretcher
RVDT - just to question your comment about
you can fly the full flight envelope without the other good engine exceeding OEI limits
EC 135 Upgrade?
A german helicopter forum ( helionline.de :: Login ) mentioned today, that according to an article in Rotor&Wing Eurocopter will introduce a new variant of the 135 at the HAI in Vegas next week.
Surprisingly the article was edited a short time after and the above mentioned news were removed. But "Eurocopter-to-Bring-EC175-EC135-T3P3-to-Las-Vegas" is still part of the web adress below 
Rotor & Wing Magazine :: Eurocopter to Bring EC175 to Las Vegas
skadi
A german helicopter forum ( helionline.de :: Login ) mentioned today, that according to an article in Rotor&Wing Eurocopter will introduce a new variant of the 135 at the HAI in Vegas next week.
The T3/P3 version provides a significant performance improvement in hot and high conditions, and for many operators, an impressive improvement in payload capabilities. The main rotor blades have been extended by nearly four inches, and the avionics suite includes optimized FADEC (full-authority digital engine control) software. Maximum takeoff weight also got a 66-lb. boost to a new figure of approximately 6,579 lbs. The aircraft’s range was also lengthened, thanks to a new external auxiliary fuel tank.
Rotor & Wing Magazine :: Eurocopter to Bring EC175 to Las Vegas
skadi
Last edited by skadi; 1st Mar 2013 at 18:10.
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Fantastic news about the EC135T/P3 !!!!
Anyone have any pictures of the new cockpit??
What a PR failure not to have any anywhere not even on the company website???
Anyone have any pictures of the new cockpit??
What a PR failure not to have any anywhere not even on the company website???
Last edited by Brilliant Stuff; 6th Mar 2013 at 17:25.
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I have been connected with the EC135 from a Police perspective since about 1996. For my money it has always had the potential to be the finest Police Helicopter in the world.
It is about the right size. It is twin engined and has a cabin large enough to carry a Pilot and two additional Police Air observers and all their associated kit etc. And it permits excellent observation facilities for its crew.
The cabin built to the latest standards of Crashworthyness has already proved its value and the machine has gained an excellant reputation for reliability and relative ease of maintenance.
But it has always carried with it one slight disadvantage which Eurocopter have never addressed and even now refuse to accept.
It has consistently lagged behind in max take of weight, and as all Police aircraft generally operate at around their maximum permitted weight the endurance has suffered because of the inability to carry sufficient fuel and still remain within Cat A.
I was always given the excuse that the machine has just about reached the point of maximum development, "so don't expect much more, because that would require stronger gearbox and transmission".
My response to that was " Then for heavens sake get on and do it!" This new version the t/p3 is clearly a step in the right direction but it is not enough! It needs to go well over 3,000 Kg,s
Eurocopter please listen! The EC135 is a fine Police Machine but it could be so much better! Please have more confidence in your own product and give it a real upgrade. Stronger Engines and more importantly a stronger transmission. Then it really will be unbeatable.
EC have always pointed towards the EC145 as being the answer to those who wanted more weight and power. But it is a very different machine and not so suitable for the high speed pursuit and manouverability offered by the 135. It also uses much more fuel. very important to cash strapped Police Forces.
I have posted this report from a Policing perspective and I am sure that many pilots will tell me that I am talking rubbish. But that is my view. I will now don battle bowler and retreat to my bunker!
tigerfish.
It is about the right size. It is twin engined and has a cabin large enough to carry a Pilot and two additional Police Air observers and all their associated kit etc. And it permits excellent observation facilities for its crew.
The cabin built to the latest standards of Crashworthyness has already proved its value and the machine has gained an excellant reputation for reliability and relative ease of maintenance.
But it has always carried with it one slight disadvantage which Eurocopter have never addressed and even now refuse to accept.
It has consistently lagged behind in max take of weight, and as all Police aircraft generally operate at around their maximum permitted weight the endurance has suffered because of the inability to carry sufficient fuel and still remain within Cat A.
I was always given the excuse that the machine has just about reached the point of maximum development, "so don't expect much more, because that would require stronger gearbox and transmission".
My response to that was " Then for heavens sake get on and do it!" This new version the t/p3 is clearly a step in the right direction but it is not enough! It needs to go well over 3,000 Kg,s
Eurocopter please listen! The EC135 is a fine Police Machine but it could be so much better! Please have more confidence in your own product and give it a real upgrade. Stronger Engines and more importantly a stronger transmission. Then it really will be unbeatable.
EC have always pointed towards the EC145 as being the answer to those who wanted more weight and power. But it is a very different machine and not so suitable for the high speed pursuit and manouverability offered by the 135. It also uses much more fuel. very important to cash strapped Police Forces.
I have posted this report from a Policing perspective and I am sure that many pilots will tell me that I am talking rubbish. But that is my view. I will now don battle bowler and retreat to my bunker!
tigerfish.
Last edited by tigerfish; 7th Mar 2013 at 23:41.
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Tigerfish, all I am going to say is that sadly that once LCD screens came on to the scene a bobby decided he needed now two screens in the back which has for some strange reason become the norm. My fellow colleagues asked why that was neccessary but they got shouted down. Couple this with the interesting design of the work station in the cabin makes for lots of wasted weight IMHO.
On top of that there is quite a bit of extra kit on the mini tender aircraft which isn't being used (uplink anyone) all this means reduced fuel loads. In the real world though we have gained 15 minutes of extra fuel this could have been stretched to 30 minutes if a cool head with common sense had designed the work station. IMHO.
Devon & Cornwall at least resisted and had one landscape monitor fitted which can be split in two and a little monitor folds out on the right hand side but it still has that monstrosity of a stand on which it is bolted to.
On top of that there is quite a bit of extra kit on the mini tender aircraft which isn't being used (uplink anyone) all this means reduced fuel loads. In the real world though we have gained 15 minutes of extra fuel this could have been stretched to 30 minutes if a cool head with common sense had designed the work station. IMHO.
Devon & Cornwall at least resisted and had one landscape monitor fitted which can be split in two and a little monitor folds out on the right hand side but it still has that monstrosity of a stand on which it is bolted to.
BS
You make a good point, and it was true that the crews often wanted more & more kit. There is no doubt that that tendency did have a weight penalty.
My point was that the EC135 was/is a bloody fine aircraft, but for a variety of reasons, it was always operating at or near the top end of its weight category.
To my regret, I am no longer deeply involved, but still feel that the 135 has years left in it. However, to me it seems that it is now being threatened by two or three of the newer breeds of helicopter. They on 1st sight, may appear more capable. Yet the 135 if beefed up a bit, has the pedigree and robustness to remain at the head of the game. For me it will always be the finest Police A/C of its day. I just want to extend that day a little, - say another 20 years!
tigerfish
You make a good point, and it was true that the crews often wanted more & more kit. There is no doubt that that tendency did have a weight penalty.
My point was that the EC135 was/is a bloody fine aircraft, but for a variety of reasons, it was always operating at or near the top end of its weight category.
To my regret, I am no longer deeply involved, but still feel that the 135 has years left in it. However, to me it seems that it is now being threatened by two or three of the newer breeds of helicopter. They on 1st sight, may appear more capable. Yet the 135 if beefed up a bit, has the pedigree and robustness to remain at the head of the game. For me it will always be the finest Police A/C of its day. I just want to extend that day a little, - say another 20 years!
tigerfish
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If you were to ask me what is the trump card of the EC135 I would say it has no Gotchas wether on the ground or in the air.
Yes there is that minor issue of the 4 rotorhead cracks but curiously there have only been 4....
Right donning hard-hat....and closing the lid on the tiger.
Yes there is that minor issue of the 4 rotorhead cracks but curiously there have only been 4....
Right donning hard-hat....and closing the lid on the tiger.
In the real world though we have gained 15 minutes of extra fuel this could have been stretched to 30 minutes
I spoke with the management last week at a press conference and they were pretty dismissive on the matter of the head cracks. They were unable to find a common link between the four and they were a while back now so I think they are watching for number 5 and assuming that the others were just a glitch.
The new EC135T3 displayed at the Heli-Expo shows that not a great deal has changed with the new airframe. Inside they have revised the ergonomics up to preferred modern standards but if you did not fit in the back seat before you still will not. Police role fits in the Uk use up a lot of 'boot space' and that area is no larger either so other than the kit getting smaller there is no gain beyond an ability to carry it conferred by the engine and rotor boost.
There was some talk about external/conformal fuel tanks but that is it seems no more than EC asking the customers whether they want them. The plan, as far as it goes is to bulge the top step in a similar manner to that exhibited on the Heli-Expo aircraft for housing the emergency floatation gear.
Older ppruners may recall the Conformal fuel tanks on the first Devon & Cornwall BK117C1 G-DCPA - they never made it past the launch photo-shoot as it was found that the police role fit with nose mounted camera shifted the C of G far too forwards. They sold them off to someone without a sensor pod. So it looks like this may be a HEMS or utility option if it ever happens.
As for the threat to the 135 from newer types that may be an illusion. The 145 may be threatened by the AW169 but not the 135. The old threats are the best! There are no plans to replace the 109 just yet so if you did not like it before you will not like it now.
Which leaves the 902 and the 429. The former is now relaunched by a very robust Lynn Tilton but her new baby and its new avionics from Universal are not expected before 2015 and the latter remains in the hands of arguments between Bell and the FAA/EASA over raising limits. Many voiced an opinion that it is only a matter of time before the certification authorities give in.....
Meanwhile the 135 continues to sell. A generally held opinion is that the 135 itself is too big for the task of police patrol and observation. The perfect type for the task is the AS350 ..... Now that is another argument.
The new EC135T3 displayed at the Heli-Expo shows that not a great deal has changed with the new airframe. Inside they have revised the ergonomics up to preferred modern standards but if you did not fit in the back seat before you still will not. Police role fits in the Uk use up a lot of 'boot space' and that area is no larger either so other than the kit getting smaller there is no gain beyond an ability to carry it conferred by the engine and rotor boost.
There was some talk about external/conformal fuel tanks but that is it seems no more than EC asking the customers whether they want them. The plan, as far as it goes is to bulge the top step in a similar manner to that exhibited on the Heli-Expo aircraft for housing the emergency floatation gear.
Older ppruners may recall the Conformal fuel tanks on the first Devon & Cornwall BK117C1 G-DCPA - they never made it past the launch photo-shoot as it was found that the police role fit with nose mounted camera shifted the C of G far too forwards. They sold them off to someone without a sensor pod. So it looks like this may be a HEMS or utility option if it ever happens.
As for the threat to the 135 from newer types that may be an illusion. The 145 may be threatened by the AW169 but not the 135. The old threats are the best! There are no plans to replace the 109 just yet so if you did not like it before you will not like it now.
Which leaves the 902 and the 429. The former is now relaunched by a very robust Lynn Tilton but her new baby and its new avionics from Universal are not expected before 2015 and the latter remains in the hands of arguments between Bell and the FAA/EASA over raising limits. Many voiced an opinion that it is only a matter of time before the certification authorities give in.....
Meanwhile the 135 continues to sell. A generally held opinion is that the 135 itself is too big for the task of police patrol and observation. The perfect type for the task is the AS350 ..... Now that is another argument.
Last edited by PANews; 10th Mar 2013 at 22:39.
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Originally Posted by Brilliant Stuff
Anyone have any pictures of the new cockpit??
So we'll probably see the new Helionix cockpit in Anaheim next year. Would expect it to look similar to the EC145 T2 layout:
I/C
