EC135
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 31
From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Not sure about this non-start first time thing. I have 1500 hours in the police role, short flights + lots of start/stops. It has never ever ever ever failed to start first time. Turbomeca engine. What are you doing wrong???
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 31
From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
I didn't mean it like that, sorry if I caused offence. I just wanted to balance the argument. If you don't put the prime pumps on first, it doesn't start very often. The big UK consortium are going for the PW option, so I guess it must be ok as well.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
From: UK
Just to add to JT2's comment, I have flown a number of EC135s with TM power over a few years in the UK.
There were starting problems with the early versions, if you did not let the prime pumps have a few seconds to do their thing. There were also early problems with the HMUs. However, apart from that and certainly with the later machines my experience on starting is exactly the same as JT2. Perhaps the reputation for poor starts came from that early experience?
There were starting problems with the early versions, if you did not let the prime pumps have a few seconds to do their thing. There were also early problems with the HMUs. However, apart from that and certainly with the later machines my experience on starting is exactly the same as JT2. Perhaps the reputation for poor starts came from that early experience?
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
There are now two inlet barrier filters (IBFs) offered for the EC135 - one from Eurocopter and a second from FDC/aerofilter. AFS is also working on a third system.
Here in the States, the EC135P2+ has been outselling the EC135T2+ by about 3 to 1, though there has been some concern about P&WC's support in recent years due to its heavy focus on the PW600 turbofan (a situation that may improve now that the VLJ market has cooled). To its credit, TM has also been stepping-up its support, despite record production levels.
I/C
Here in the States, the EC135P2+ has been outselling the EC135T2+ by about 3 to 1, though there has been some concern about P&WC's support in recent years due to its heavy focus on the PW600 turbofan (a situation that may improve now that the VLJ market has cooled). To its credit, TM has also been stepping-up its support, despite record production levels.
I/C
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 6
From: UK
I believe the big consortium buy for PW was down to the fact of available machines in a short time since the TM ones appear to have a longer waiting list, also TM want ultra clean water for their engine rinses which used to be daily but PW are happy with tapwater things like this had a bearing as well.
Well this is how I understand it.
All most all of Germany's Air Ambulance use the PW. The one in Berlin (I think) even has airfilters.
Well this is how I understand it.
All most all of Germany's Air Ambulance use the PW. The one in Berlin (I think) even has airfilters.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
All most all of Germany's Air Ambulance use the PW. The one in Berlin (I think) even has airfilters.
Berlin ( Christoph 31 ) is equipped with sandfilters: Christoph 31 testet Sandfilter (ergänzt) | rth.info - Faszination Luftrettung | Rettungshubschrauber online
skadi
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: mostly in the jungle...
Hi all,
good info!
The start-up failure of the TMs:
I had that happen on a Arriel (B3).
MY FAULT!
Started to cut down on the primer pump time!
The occasion was with very low fuel and the primer on less than 10 sec...
Manual says 30 sec!! Pilot Error!!
My next concern is what engine is better for hot,humid climate!
PW has 20 more horses at MCP, but slightly lower performance on OEI...
Someone mentioned that TM looks better on "paper" - what's the real life situation?
THanx!
3top,
good info!
The start-up failure of the TMs:
I had that happen on a Arriel (B3).
MY FAULT!
Started to cut down on the primer pump time!
The occasion was with very low fuel and the primer on less than 10 sec...
Manual says 30 sec!! Pilot Error!!
My next concern is what engine is better for hot,humid climate!
PW has 20 more horses at MCP, but slightly lower performance on OEI...
Someone mentioned that TM looks better on "paper" - what's the real life situation?
THanx!
3top,
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: mostly in the jungle...
Another question for all 135 drivers/mechanics/engineers:
Obviously we will need an Airconditioning System or we'll be fried!
EC offers a tropical version....
My question is if someone has experience with either EC aircon and/or the aftermarket AirComm - system.
Going by either companies reputation, this is a no-brainer with the winner being AirComm...
But, I'd rather go for some real life experience.
Thanx,
3top,
Obviously we will need an Airconditioning System or we'll be fried!
EC offers a tropical version....
My question is if someone has experience with either EC aircon and/or the aftermarket AirComm - system.
Going by either companies reputation, this is a no-brainer with the winner being AirComm...
But, I'd rather go for some real life experience.
Thanx,
3top,
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 90
From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
The EC Air Con is known to have issues with vibration and cracking in various areas, it's weight notwithstanding.
The Air Comm is not the only aftermarket A/C. Metro Aviation builds a similar one. The difference is the compressor on the Metro unit is not in the engine inlet flow. Always wondered what a refrigerant gas leak would do to the engines. Flameout?
The Air Comm is not the only aftermarket A/C. Metro Aviation builds a similar one. The difference is the compressor on the Metro unit is not in the engine inlet flow. Always wondered what a refrigerant gas leak would do to the engines. Flameout?
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: UK
I'd concur with JT2's comments (19th Apr #514) re starting - after over 5 years and around 2000 starts, putting both TM engines to Idle at the same time, the ONLY time they haven't started straight away was when I'd rushed & forgotten the Prime Pumps - my error, not TM!
Brill Stuff (#519) also comments re water rinses. TM used to insist on daily, now happy with weekly unless in salt laden environment, which could be done "hot" (at idle) or "cold" (using vent switch). Hot makes very little difference to operational availability, cold keeps the aircraft off-line for about 10 mins longer. PW still insist on daily and only have a cold procedure, I understand, despite being happy with tap water. Rather depends on what role you're using the aircraft for.
As far as tail boom colour goes, would concur that a dark tail is a must for Police or lots of hovering operations, whether TM or PW. It's the long hovering that cooks the tail - a nearby Air Ambulance (all Yellow) keeps a nice shiny tail as they just go from A-B & the tailboom stays out of the dirty airflow!
Good luck with whatever you end up with - it's a fabulous machine.
Brill Stuff (#519) also comments re water rinses. TM used to insist on daily, now happy with weekly unless in salt laden environment, which could be done "hot" (at idle) or "cold" (using vent switch). Hot makes very little difference to operational availability, cold keeps the aircraft off-line for about 10 mins longer. PW still insist on daily and only have a cold procedure, I understand, despite being happy with tap water. Rather depends on what role you're using the aircraft for.
As far as tail boom colour goes, would concur that a dark tail is a must for Police or lots of hovering operations, whether TM or PW. It's the long hovering that cooks the tail - a nearby Air Ambulance (all Yellow) keeps a nice shiny tail as they just go from A-B & the tailboom stays out of the dirty airflow!
Good luck with whatever you end up with - it's a fabulous machine.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: florida usa
Panel, Switches pictures
Does anyone have pictures of the electrical panel, instrument panel, cyclic and collective controls of an EC135P2.
I am looking for pictures that show the lay out, design and placement of all the controls.
Thanks in advance
I am looking for pictures that show the lay out, design and placement of all the controls.
Thanks in advance
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 6
From: UK
TPK the instrument panel should not be any different between the P and T.
Zora just to add, the hot rinsing is a weekly doddle if you have an engineer standing by reason being it needs an engineer to unplug the hoses from the engines since since the connectors are sadly right under the hot section instead of being routed to the outside like the latest 355s
If you only have the pilot it's a bit of a faff.
But fortunately these rinses are now weekly.
Zora just to add, the hot rinsing is a weekly doddle if you have an engineer standing by reason being it needs an engineer to unplug the hoses from the engines since since the connectors are sadly right under the hot section instead of being routed to the outside like the latest 355s
If you only have the pilot it's a bit of a faff.
But fortunately these rinses are now weekly.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
As far as tail boom colour goes, would concur that a dark tail is a must for Police or lots of hovering operations, whether TM or PW. It's the long hovering that cooks the tail - a nearby Air Ambulance (all Yellow) keeps a nice shiny tail as they just go from A-B & the tailboom stays out of the dirty airflow!
skadi
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 6
From: UK
We operate two TM powered 135 50% in the hover and both need their tails painting on a regular basis. Using the thermal camera you can see the abuse the tail gets in the hover. Air Glaze is being trialled next to see if that improves the longevity of the tail paint. The affected area is just after the exhausts up to the stabilizer.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
We operate two TM powered 135 50% in the hover and both need their tails painting on a regular basis. Using the thermal camera you can see the abuse the tail gets in the hover. Air Glaze is being trialled next to see if that improves the longevity of the tail paint. The affected area is just after the exhausts up to the stabilizer.
