EC135
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 90
From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
Easiest analogy..............
TRIM REL - "NOT" pushed - H500, push the stick around, reduce trim force with 4-way Trim switch.
TRIM REL - pushed - Bell 206, with friction off, push stick around, but don't let it go.
Depending on whether you have Yaw SAS, Yaw SAS P&R SAS, or Autopilot it does vary only slightly although it would/should be transparent to the operator.
In simple terms the series actuators need something to push "against" otherwise the cyclic would move and nothing else would happen. The cyclic has to be held by the force trim clutch's.
Each to their own, but I push the T/R when landing and taking off and mostly during the hover. If you have A/P ON without upper modes engaged you can push the button, set the desired attitude and release. Rinse, repeat as desired. If you have upper modes except NAV modes engaged the 4-way TRIM will steer the heading bug left or right or change ALT, A/S, or VSI as appropriate. To release upper modes you must push the A/P DECOUPLE button on the side of the grip. You may get a DECOUPLE and Master Caution depending on the software in the CAD.
Try not to push the SAS DCPL (decouple) that turns everything off. To reengage you must push the P&R // YAW RST Left, Right and Up to get it back. You might upset the Pax if you are at high speed!
TRIM REL - "NOT" pushed - H500, push the stick around, reduce trim force with 4-way Trim switch.
TRIM REL - pushed - Bell 206, with friction off, push stick around, but don't let it go.
Depending on whether you have Yaw SAS, Yaw SAS P&R SAS, or Autopilot it does vary only slightly although it would/should be transparent to the operator.
In simple terms the series actuators need something to push "against" otherwise the cyclic would move and nothing else would happen. The cyclic has to be held by the force trim clutch's.
Each to their own, but I push the T/R when landing and taking off and mostly during the hover. If you have A/P ON without upper modes engaged you can push the button, set the desired attitude and release. Rinse, repeat as desired. If you have upper modes except NAV modes engaged the 4-way TRIM will steer the heading bug left or right or change ALT, A/S, or VSI as appropriate. To release upper modes you must push the A/P DECOUPLE button on the side of the grip. You may get a DECOUPLE and Master Caution depending on the software in the CAD.
Try not to push the SAS DCPL (decouple) that turns everything off. To reengage you must push the P&R // YAW RST Left, Right and Up to get it back. You might upset the Pax if you are at high speed!
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 6
From: UK
I have been flying the 135 for 3 years and I don't think I use the Trim Release button at all only ever the collie hat, though my unconscious might do something different. On the SA365 I used to use the Trim Release button all the time but on the 135 it just makes it to floppy for my taste.
I was told though to use the T/R during autorotation in order to gain the 75kts quickly.
I was told though to use the T/R during autorotation in order to gain the 75kts quickly.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: ...on the go-around...
Icing?
Hi everyone,
very interesting thread we have here. Good to hear some experience from the rest of you 135 drivers.
While it does seem a fairly capable IFR tool (apart from speed/endurance) it does seem to be vulnerable in icing like all the rest of the small twins.
Do any of you guys have some experience with icing in the 135 then? How well does it cope when you cannot descend/climb any more?
As always - any info is greatly appreciated!
Cheers
WSPS
very interesting thread we have here. Good to hear some experience from the rest of you 135 drivers.
While it does seem a fairly capable IFR tool (apart from speed/endurance) it does seem to be vulnerable in icing like all the rest of the small twins.
Do any of you guys have some experience with icing in the 135 then? How well does it cope when you cannot descend/climb any more?
As always - any info is greatly appreciated!
Cheers
WSPS
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 18
From: Europe
Another question, to continue the 135 topic. I was scrolling down the VEMD's system status page the other day and came up with the TOT.T (trim) line in °C. The value was around 100°C roughly on both sides, but i could not find any explanation from Training Manual. What is this TOT trim?
Regards, Jure
Regards, Jure
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 90
From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
Trim....................
Phoinix,
Both brands TM and PW have methods of trimming the TOT and Torque (Q).
The TOT thermocouples on the engine in both cases do not actually output the true value of the MGT/TOT/EGT (delete as required). When the engine is run in the test cell the real TOT is measured and the "trim" value is recorded to make the correction required.
The same applies to the torquemeter shaft. The "datum" and "slope" are compensated. Additionally the torquemeter shaft has a temperature compensation input as well in real time from one of the magnetic pickups which has a temp sensor inside it. (At least on the PW for sure).
The TM uses a "confirmation box" for each value and the PW uses data which is in memory in the Data Collection Unit. All of these units are part of the turbomachine module. They must stay with it. If the modules are changed they must be adjusted in the case of the TM or have the data loaded on the PW.
You will also find the values on the module data plate.
The reason this data is in the STATUS page is to verify that the information is being read correctly and the required values exist. Remember that the VEMD is responsible for determining the display of limits electronically. If BOTH VEMD lanes fail you will have analog data in the CAD. Corrected Q in the PW case and Delta N1 for the TM. These values come direct from the FADEC.
Both brands TM and PW have methods of trimming the TOT and Torque (Q).
The TOT thermocouples on the engine in both cases do not actually output the true value of the MGT/TOT/EGT (delete as required). When the engine is run in the test cell the real TOT is measured and the "trim" value is recorded to make the correction required.
The same applies to the torquemeter shaft. The "datum" and "slope" are compensated. Additionally the torquemeter shaft has a temperature compensation input as well in real time from one of the magnetic pickups which has a temp sensor inside it. (At least on the PW for sure).
The TM uses a "confirmation box" for each value and the PW uses data which is in memory in the Data Collection Unit. All of these units are part of the turbomachine module. They must stay with it. If the modules are changed they must be adjusted in the case of the TM or have the data loaded on the PW.
You will also find the values on the module data plate.
The reason this data is in the STATUS page is to verify that the information is being read correctly and the required values exist. Remember that the VEMD is responsible for determining the display of limits electronically. If BOTH VEMD lanes fail you will have analog data in the CAD. Corrected Q in the PW case and Delta N1 for the TM. These values come direct from the FADEC.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 18
From: Europe
So this TOT.T is the preset value of TOT that corrects the measured TOT to the real value. Is the TOT.T constant to all measurements, or does it vary according to measured TOT?
This trim is something that is constant to all P&W 206B's?
Thank you RVDT, you are a true EC135 guru.
This trim is something that is constant to all P&W 206B's?
Thank you RVDT, you are a true EC135 guru.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 90
From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
Phoinix,
The TOT.T value I assume could be linear then again it may not be!
It is different between each turbomachinery module. That is why the DCU or confirmation box needs to stay with the turbomachinery module. This data is loaded into the EECU/FADEC at power up.
The STATUS PAGE is for maintenance practice so that you can easily determine that the values have been loaded. It is also used for certain rigging functions.
The TOT.T value I assume could be linear then again it may not be!
It is different between each turbomachinery module. That is why the DCU or confirmation box needs to stay with the turbomachinery module. This data is loaded into the EECU/FADEC at power up.
The STATUS PAGE is for maintenance practice so that you can easily determine that the values have been loaded. It is also used for certain rigging functions.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: EUROPE
See the following article on Rotorhub this week
Bond buy EC135 for wind farm servicing missions | Shephard Group
Surely the EC135 mentioned will need to be in "Offshore fit" to perform this sort of role . Note that it will be fitted with a hoist for transfer of personnel etc , does this require approvals from the CAA inorder to perform winching Ops ? Or can it just be done ?
Thought civilian winching was frowned upon in the UK unless its by a Civvy SAR or military machine.....
Bond buy EC135 for wind farm servicing missions | Shephard Group
Surely the EC135 mentioned will need to be in "Offshore fit" to perform this sort of role . Note that it will be fitted with a hoist for transfer of personnel etc , does this require approvals from the CAA inorder to perform winching Ops ? Or can it just be done ?
Thought civilian winching was frowned upon in the UK unless its by a Civvy SAR or military machine.....
