EC135
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 18
From: Europe
I cought something while doing type rating, that TOT is still high after shutdown so you are more careful during next start. The message normaly goes away until the next startup, but I want to know what exactly it is.
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
Can someone tell me where to find information on "VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT" displayed after shutdown on CAD's lower edge.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: UK
Phoinix - suggest you put VEMDs into maintenance mode and scroll around for the failure code. We get it regularly and, like MightyGem, give it a good ignoring.
When we first got the aircraft, we looked into every similar issue until we realised that they were invariably code 103 or similar, all occurring at 00:00secs - i.e. probably some small electrical hiccup with no likelyhood of it having occurred in flight or anything to do with handling errors.
Unfortunately, our experience has led us to follow the ignoring procedure above and ECD/TM (don't know whether it happens with P&W) have not addressed what appears to be a CAD/VEMD/FADEC electrical sensitivity issue to remove these "cry wolf" CAD warnings - one day it might be important/relevant, but we're unlikely to find it until the engineers download FADEC data. Only time we check it out is when we feel we might have mis-handled, which is hardly ever, of course!!
When we first got the aircraft, we looked into every similar issue until we realised that they were invariably code 103 or similar, all occurring at 00:00secs - i.e. probably some small electrical hiccup with no likelyhood of it having occurred in flight or anything to do with handling errors.
Unfortunately, our experience has led us to follow the ignoring procedure above and ECD/TM (don't know whether it happens with P&W) have not addressed what appears to be a CAD/VEMD/FADEC electrical sensitivity issue to remove these "cry wolf" CAD warnings - one day it might be important/relevant, but we're unlikely to find it until the engineers download FADEC data. Only time we check it out is when we feel we might have mis-handled, which is hardly ever, of course!!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: foot of a mountain
Eddie1, my understanding is that the engine manufacturer will not be concerned as the VEH parameter indicate that it is caused by the airframe and not engine. If it is not electrical system related check the pitot static lines and temp probes. Had it a few times that it is caused by the VEMD not thinking that the PO and outside T can be for the same place and then records it as a VEH parameter out of range.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 549
Likes: 14
From: The South
We have a similar problem in the A109 Grand where the aircraft throws up MAINTENANCE on start due to an electrical disturbance during the normal start procedure.
In the age of software driven aircraft surely these glitches can be written out?
In the age of software driven aircraft surely these glitches can be written out?
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
@eddie1
If the warning illuminates at start up because of to high amp loads from the Generator is one thing. This indication goes off after startup.
If the warning illuminates at start up because of to high amp loads from the Generator is one thing. This indication goes off after startup.
skadi
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: The Dark Side
At the risk of repeating myself - check my previous post (581) - on shutdown the engine and transmission oil pressures drop to zero - the VEMD detects this and sends the message - it is logical and normal - note the red lines under the pressure strips! Please don't ignore something you don't understand particularly in a helicopter as complex as the EC135!
GAGS
E86
GAGS
E86
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 18
From: Europe
Well, finnaly I got an explanation from Ec guys. VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT is suppose to be a message warning the crew, that one of the parameters has been in the caution area - in our case MM was in yellow at one time not exceeding 7,5'' (manitenance acknowledged) - and so you don't have the safety factor of reaching that level of exceedence once again without manitenance action taken - expensive.
Funny that EC manuals don't say much about it.
Funny that EC manuals don't say much about it.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
I went a little bit deeper into the maintenance staff. If VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT shows up in the flight report after shut down, you should switch the CPDS into maintenance mode, select FAILURES and then the approbiate FlightNr ( normaly the last one ) with the +/- Buttons. Push ENTER and you get numbers of failures for the CAD and the VEMD. Select the one with at least 1 failure, press ENTER and you get the Failure Diagnosis. The first line shows the time of the occurence and below the respective failure code. There are some more than 100 different codes in the technical manuals ( SDS System Description Section 31-65-00-9 ).
One common failurecode is 109R, which indicates a failed selftest of the MMI, but if the MMI is indicating normal, this failure could be ignored. Its caused by the selftests ( During startup of the CPDS ) of the two VEMD Lines and when the analysis of Line 1 finishes earlier than the analysis of Line 2, the VEMD deactivates the results of line 2 and the errorcode 109R may be stored in the system.
skadi
One common failurecode is 109R, which indicates a failed selftest of the MMI, but if the MMI is indicating normal, this failure could be ignored. Its caused by the selftests ( During startup of the CPDS ) of the two VEMD Lines and when the analysis of Line 1 finishes earlier than the analysis of Line 2, the VEMD deactivates the results of line 2 and the errorcode 109R may be stored in the system.
skadi
Joined: May 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
From: in the north country fair
Can someone tell me where to find information on "VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT" displayed after shutdown on CAD's lower edge.
When the "VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT" is displayed on the top VEMD screen it is due to the fact that the Flight Report occupies the lower VEMD screen.
Think about it;
The situation is right after engine shut down.
Right before the Flight Report appears you have engine oil pressure low and red underlines flashing on the lower VEMD screen.
When the Flight Report appears on the lower screen this information cannot be shown anywhere.
So what the "VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT" is telling you is that some parameters are presently out of limit , that is engine and MGB oil pressure low.
The idea of the system is that you should always get an indication that there is something wrong.
The same would happen if you are shown the System Status page while having low oil pressure.
In fact, try this; next time when you are done with the Flight Report press Reset to remove it. Then press Scroll to see the System status and "VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT" will pop up again.
If you on the other hand are shown “OVER LIMIT DETECTED” or “FAILURE DETECTED” it is another story and you should consult the maintenance page for details.
RD
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
When the "VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT" is displayed on the top VEMD screen it is due to the fact that the Flight Report occupies the lower VEMD screen.
I just switched the battery on and switched off the lower screen.
VEH PARAM OVERLIMIT went on!
skadi
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: out on a limb
Compressor Wash EC135 P2
I need to do a comp wash on an EC135 P2+. But can't seem to get hold of the procedure from anyone.
Can anyone out there help please?
Either point me in the right direction or tell me what the procs. are.
many thanks
helipeek
(Vainly pushing buttons hoping the bonging noise will stop!!)
Can anyone out there help please?
Either point me in the right direction or tell me what the procs. are.
many thanks
helipeek
(Vainly pushing buttons hoping the bonging noise will stop!!)