EC135
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Is someone suggesting normal ops at 2900kg.
Are there any operators who have a higher MTOW limit approved by ECD? I do know Agusta would approved a higher MTOW under certain circumstances.
Are there any operators who have a higher MTOW limit approved by ECD? I do know Agusta would approved a higher MTOW under certain circumstances.
The increase might not necessarily be much of an advantage; for us police operators, much of our time is spent in a high hover, often downwind, so unless we see an increase in max continuous torque its usefulness will mostly be confined to those like corporate operators who use the take-off rating to get en route and accept the knot or so lower IAS. Not to mention c of g probs as pretty much anything we would want to do would push it further forward.
Last edited by Droopy; 24th Mar 2005 at 17:34.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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EC 135 in the offshore role?
Would appreciate any contributions that can shed some light on how well the EC 135 works in the offshore world. The decks are not big enough for a 365 so it has to be something smaller with a two pilot cockpit. Platforms are no more than 40 miles from base. MD902 is looking shaky right now but maybe the 109 is also in that 'how good will the after-sales support be' bracket. EC have not always enjoyed a good reputation in that area either but they look like they are the best of the bunch right now.
Anybody got any first hand experience with this size of machine offshore? What about Bell's products?
Anybody got any first hand experience with this size of machine offshore? What about Bell's products?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Marsh
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Taylor Energy is using a SPIFR EC-135 in the GOM and I haven't heard much about it. PHI has several on order with the first few going to the EMS jobs and a few going to the GOM for Shell and/or BP.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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I love the 135 as a pilot machine and rave about it in public. One thing to consider though is engine reliability in high salt conditions. There are some questions you may want to ask about salt damage to engine stators. That said, power by the hour will cover this under the contract and the spares back up is super!!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Fresh news from ECD a couple of weeks ago was part of their EC135 plans for 2005 included an "Offshore package" to consist of ADELT, vibro recording & anti-corrosion measures. They also have a corrosion manual in preparation.
Depends which engines you go for but, (no doubt the manufacturers will say), so long as they get washed frequently, you'll keep them fairly sweet
- concur with JTT comments & questions, especially PBH as the sensible option. Interestingly, as Turbomeca regard the whole of the UK as a "saline environment", there are lots of people keeping an eye out for corrosion related issues, especially those near the coasts!
Depends which engines you go for but, (no doubt the manufacturers will say), so long as they get washed frequently, you'll keep them fairly sweet
- concur with JTT comments & questions, especially PBH as the sensible option. Interestingly, as Turbomeca regard the whole of the UK as a "saline environment", there are lots of people keeping an eye out for corrosion related issues, especially those near the coasts!
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Geoff:
The interesting part of zorab64's post is the reference to the additional equipment - no prizes for guessing who is leading the debate on that.
The interesting item will be VHM; will that be just tail rotor monitoring or the transmission as well. If a helicopter is already equipped with FDR, this is not such an issue - with a FAR/JAR 27 helicopter it looks like the start of a new era.
The main issue - if these are to be replacement helicopters - will be the footprint on the helideck. A large plus point for all of these small twins is that they can provide zero exposure operations from small GOM decks.
The interesting part of zorab64's post is the reference to the additional equipment - no prizes for guessing who is leading the debate on that.
The interesting item will be VHM; will that be just tail rotor monitoring or the transmission as well. If a helicopter is already equipped with FDR, this is not such an issue - with a FAR/JAR 27 helicopter it looks like the start of a new era.
The main issue - if these are to be replacement helicopters - will be the footprint on the helideck. A large plus point for all of these small twins is that they can provide zero exposure operations from small GOM decks.
EC 135 in the offshore role?
Geoffersincornwall
A word of advice regarding engine corrosion. P&WC considers Corrosion; Erosion & Sulphidation etc. as damage due to environmental conditions beyond their control and therefore are NOT covered under the P&WC warranty scheme, just like lightning strikes, sudden stoppage etc.
There are a few exceptions to these rules on a case by case, like delivery corrosion or possibly ‘First Run Warranty’ claims but please beware.
A word of advice regarding engine corrosion. P&WC considers Corrosion; Erosion & Sulphidation etc. as damage due to environmental conditions beyond their control and therefore are NOT covered under the P&WC warranty scheme, just like lightning strikes, sudden stoppage etc.
There are a few exceptions to these rules on a case by case, like delivery corrosion or possibly ‘First Run Warranty’ claims but please beware.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I'd go the 109, great pilot friendly machine, comes standard as single pilot IFR and wx radar a delight to operate, we also fly in a salty enviroment and so far all is well.
We have been happy with customer support and warrantee issues.
Sounds like the grand may be a better machine for you with 12 or so extra inches, I believe you can set up to have all seats facing forwards.
Don't know about the 135 but the 109 also has emergency exits through the rear cabin windows, and front door jettison systems.
We have been happy with customer support and warrantee issues.
Sounds like the grand may be a better machine for you with 12 or so extra inches, I believe you can set up to have all seats facing forwards.
Don't know about the 135 but the 109 also has emergency exits through the rear cabin windows, and front door jettison systems.
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oxi
At last some input from the A109 fraternity. Much appreciated. As I mentioned at the start of this thread it would need to be operated 2 pilot IFR.
One thing that really concerns me about all these light twins is that by the time you have put dinghies, FDRs, IHUMS (or equivalent) ADELT, Floats (pop-outs), TAS, HEEL, HISL and any other goodies needed these days, how much weight do you have left for fuel/payload when you leave the beach in temps up to 35-40 deg C and arrive HOGE at the platform in say 30-35 deg C?
I'm not talking salesman figures here but real-life stuff.
How is the spares support for Agusta these days?
At last some input from the A109 fraternity. Much appreciated. As I mentioned at the start of this thread it would need to be operated 2 pilot IFR.
One thing that really concerns me about all these light twins is that by the time you have put dinghies, FDRs, IHUMS (or equivalent) ADELT, Floats (pop-outs), TAS, HEEL, HISL and any other goodies needed these days, how much weight do you have left for fuel/payload when you leave the beach in temps up to 35-40 deg C and arrive HOGE at the platform in say 30-35 deg C?
I'm not talking salesman figures here but real-life stuff.
How is the spares support for Agusta these days?
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Geoffers - some (very) rough 135 figures for you.
I reckon you should be able to get 2 pilots, 4 pax (all 90kgs) & 300kgs fuel (200 kg p.h.). Some extra goodies included, another 100kgs for those I'm not sure about!
With ECD seriously considering an increased MAUW to 2900 ish (extra 65kgs), and other weight reduction measures, you could have a little more to play with - and all at +40 deg (Clear Area).
I reckon you should be able to get 2 pilots, 4 pax (all 90kgs) & 300kgs fuel (200 kg p.h.). Some extra goodies included, another 100kgs for those I'm not sure about!
With ECD seriously considering an increased MAUW to 2900 ish (extra 65kgs), and other weight reduction measures, you could have a little more to play with - and all at +40 deg (Clear Area).
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frogspawn/zorab 64
Thanks for the info. The decks are likely to have a weight limitation that would probably make the 145 less productive than a 135 methinks.
How far could I go with 300 kgs of fuel and JAROPS fuel plan?
Thanks for the info. The decks are likely to have a weight limitation that would probably make the 145 less productive than a 135 methinks.
How far could I go with 300 kgs of fuel and JAROPS fuel plan?
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If the decks are the issue then it kinda sounds like your stuck... Don't know much about the 135, we looked at them but at least with the 109 you will sit at 140 indicated generaly around 75-80%. It is possible to save considerable fuel by sitting at 5000 and achieving 160 tas.
The 109 is a little on the heavy side empty doesn't leave you with much, full fuel and 3 pob is a squeeze. The standard max t/o weight being 2850 kg, perhaps go for the 3 tonne kit that will make it a much better option, the machine will do it no problems...plenty to spare, just a bit exie for the mod.
The pratts have proven reliable and perform very well, generaly you don't touch em, just check the oil and wash off the soot.
Sorry don't know what floats add to the equation.
Thats it from me good luck.
P.S Shame that all that extra stuff is required.
Oh and 2 pilots and 4 pax, gives you 392 kg of fuel, 30 min res, and with a tas of 145kts you should cover 188nm.
Thats using a standard burn rate of 220kg/hr, I would imagine you could easily better those numbers on the day.
I think the grand is going to be around 3300 kgs mtow and would think not much heaviel that the power...better again.
The 109 is a little on the heavy side empty doesn't leave you with much, full fuel and 3 pob is a squeeze. The standard max t/o weight being 2850 kg, perhaps go for the 3 tonne kit that will make it a much better option, the machine will do it no problems...plenty to spare, just a bit exie for the mod.
The pratts have proven reliable and perform very well, generaly you don't touch em, just check the oil and wash off the soot.
Sorry don't know what floats add to the equation.
Thats it from me good luck.
P.S Shame that all that extra stuff is required.
Oh and 2 pilots and 4 pax, gives you 392 kg of fuel, 30 min res, and with a tas of 145kts you should cover 188nm.
Thats using a standard burn rate of 220kg/hr, I would imagine you could easily better those numbers on the day.
I think the grand is going to be around 3300 kgs mtow and would think not much heaviel that the power...better again.