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Robinson R44

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Robinson R44

Old 5th Sep 2006, 03:02
  #861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: That Bit up the Top Down Under
Posts: 60
TET..

They still haven't got around to building the new one down the road.(unless you mean the really old one that used to be right beside the river, where you had to roll down in to the river sometimes to get a run up.) You know what National sparks and wildfires are like. Tells everyone it will happen soon: interpret to mean sometime in the next decade. We are actually the non-concession operator up here, our pad is at the little airstrip back down the road a bit, just out of the park, hence we don;t have to pay the commission. pi$$es them off a bit tho (nat parks) as they can't place the restrictions on us that they can on the other poor boys down the road.
chop.
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Old 5th Sep 2006, 13:41
  #862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,958
They still haven't got around to building the new one down the road.(unless you mean the really old one that used to be right beside the river, where you had to roll down in to the river sometimes to get a run up.)
CP
I guess the really old one by the river if it's the same one I think of is where a certain person rolled up a 47 doing just that, downwind and downhill and hey presto, smacko into the rocks with two rangers on board.
Same certain person actually picked up a saftey award a couple of years ago for a history of no prangs???????????????????? convenient memory?????????

other one - if its the one on the grass in the park you refer to that is now used - is conveniently placed for T/O and translation in ground effect into the dry season prevailing and quite simply by taking off in the nearly reverse (+135 degree) direction over the cleared approved flight path the same for the wet season prevailing?????? or am i in the wrong location.

All's needed in wet season is pedal turn upon arrival and hey presto right in front are more smiling tourists just waiting to give you handfuls of cash.
tet
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Old 7th Sep 2006, 02:34
  #863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: That Bit up the Top Down Under
Posts: 60
TET,
I know just the person you are talking about. He even runs a robinson 'safety course' now, and I have been in the 22 when he was demonstrating low G manouvouers (sp??). Not something i was keen on at the time, and told him so. Needless to say we (the company) did not feel the need to get him back again. They have been down at the the new pad you are talking about for some years, but are talking about moving it again, further away from the rangers housing, and actually putting in an aircon donger for the pilots. Not a pleasant place to spend a build-up, sitting under the shade cloth in near 40 degree heat all day. But we are only pilots.
We have a helipad down the road with the airstrip (and aircon and internet), and while there is always an approach into wind, its just the termination that sometimes makes you work, at max weight, turning the tail into 25+ knts at 35+ degrees for a couple of months a year, but the little Robbies (44's anyway) have never let me down. Never had a problem with the TR if driven properly. But beware the less experienced who right turn tail into wind and can't catch it quick enough when they run out of power. Certainly wakes the tourists up, a quick 360 degree view of the helipad. They are then placated by being told that he/she was just demonstrating the rapid manouvouerability of the machines, while the pilot unhooks from the seat cushion.
I take it you have also paid you time over the gorge sometime previously?
We still have the blades of a few of the KH4's that have come to grief over the years as seating for the tourists.
Chop
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Old 8th Sep 2006, 05:44
  #864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 107
Upper Sheave Bearing

Going back to my post on the upper sheave bearing, according to Robinsons, ours was well shot - the telatemp should never go above 77 deg. Apparently the (UK) maintenance organisation that supplied and looks after our machine, didn't 'pre-grease' the bearing before fitment. The very high frequency vibration we had has now disappeared with the 6 hr-old U/S bearing being changed again.

Has anyone had any problems with these bearings or had telatemps change colour often?

I'm off for a long weekend around the country with the boss and our wives in it, so keeping fingers crossed for a trouble free time (and good weather!)
Cheers, WW
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Old 10th Sep 2006, 14:35
  #865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
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But beware the less experienced who right turn tail into wind and can't catch it quick enough when they run out of power. Certainly wakes the tourists up, a quick 360 degree view of the helipad. They are then placated by being told that he/she was just demonstrating the rapid manouvouerability of the machines, while the pilot unhooks from the seat cushion.
I take it you have also paid you time over the gorge sometime previously?
Quote:
As for wind.... most we get up here is about 35 knots, but whoever designed the pad put it facing the complete opposite direction to the prevailing wind, so always tail in to wind landings (note, not termination, just landing) to get the pax out with out walking in to the tail rotor. If one of the junior guys is struggling a bit, we get him to land on the lawn facing the other way.


Two quotes above do indicate a bit of confusion, the only lawn as far as I have been told is down in the park pad, so I guess you are referring to techniques of difficulty on both pads by junior drivers. Now I am not wanting to be too harsh but if I was involved with tourism in oz I think i would be fairly perlexed and making representation to somebody to get both operations sorted out to a much safer degree. Where in fact is each chief pilot? It is quite inexcusable to have war stories as such.

In short a jolly good crash at either location would put at risk ALL of your heli-tourism colleagues in OZ and probably very unfairlay have the pollies and public suggesting that the local FOI's were a tardy and slack mob as well.

Meanwhile - back to the thread. It seems there is a common point of fore and aft oscillations at 80 - 85 knots after the machines are strobed in the hover and smooth at high airspeed. Why not put the accelerometers back on the machine and just see what is happening.

We used to have what we called the death rattles on the lightweight blade 47's, which was nothing more than a blade going out of track, usually at the three oclock position, and it would become quite fierce if one was silly enough to let the vibe build up. It was an easy matter to cancel it by lowering lever slightly and turning slightly to the right then slowly resume preceeding direction and power.

It was always more prevalent in the texas equipped no bar machines.

It was accentuated by loose rod ends, worn out power cylinders, out of alignment power cylinders and control rods ( thus creating a bending and shortening moment) or worn or old sprag or lord mounts.

Some of the civil 3B1's had also an oil-canning effect in the firewall about the power cylinder attach points which allowed the rod ends to jump around. This was not evident in the Augusta models which had an extra gusset in the firewall construction.

I suggest that there may be a drag moment building up from the fuselage at 85 knots which is translating into creating a problem with the transmission mounts stiffness or tension at that drag component

This could mean that transmission is unable to be controlled properly in the fore and aft periods at that airspeed or the control rods are suffering adverse feedback which means that the blade is being forced into an out of track condition at that airspeed. Perhaps the transmission mounts could be wider spaced or made of a different grade of rubber. Perhaps some stiffening around the control rod and power cylinder attach points may help. At any rate all you're doing is guessing until you put the accelerometers on and start recording some data.

It may be that the fuselage flies in a different profile at 110 knots and does not create the same drag moments.
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Old 11th Sep 2006, 03:35
  #866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: That Bit up the Top Down Under
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by topendtorque View Post
Two quotes above do indicate a bit of confusion, the only lawn as far as I have been told is down in the park pad, so I guess you are referring to techniques of difficulty on both pads by junior drivers. Now I am not wanting to be too harsh but if I was involved with tourism in oz I think i would be fairly perlexed and making representation to somebody to get both operations sorted out to a much safer degree. Where in fact is each chief pilot? It is quite inexcusable to have war stories as such.

In short a jolly good crash at either location would put at risk ALL of your heli-tourism colleagues in OZ and probably very unfairlay have the pollies and public suggesting that the local FOI's were a tardy and slack mob as well..
TET,
It seems that I may not have made myself as clear as i had hoped. We are NOT the operator in the park. We are located on the road to the park. We have a roped off lawn area, which when the wind exceeds the SAFE limits for each pilots capabilities, can be used as an alternative landing area (as it faces 180 degrees to the other pad). We prefer to use the existing gravel pad on the edge of the airstrip as much as possible, which means landing with the tail into wind on the days that we have wind, as it is hard enough to keep the lawn green with out the burn marks on the lawn from the 44.
Each pilot has differing abilities, and are encouraged at all times to make safe decisions, and are never ridiculed for doing so, as with some other places I have seen. We have regular ramp checks here, as all the FOI's go through Kath on their way to other places, and they are all very happy with the way our operation runs. Chief pilot is located at VRD, as he has always been to oversee the main mustering base.

Meanwhile - back to the thread. It seems there is a common point of fore and aft oscillations at 80 - 85 knots after the machines are strobed in the hover and smooth at high airspeed. Why not put the accelerometers back on the machine and just see what is happening.
I believe that speed was not a factor with NAH's 44. They had been cruising on 110 or so for about 15 mins, and in a gentle right turn the oscillation began. In the following decelleration and righthand turn to the landing area (next to the sewerage ponds) it dimished somewhat. I have yet to talk to the pilot who was flying on the day, except over the radio, and look forward to having a beer with him to find out more.

I am also interested to find out if they have changed the rubber compostion or size of xmsn mounts for the Raven II's as perhaps they have a particular resonant freq that slipped under Franks nose un-noticed. Sadly my experience with the newer 'flasher' 44's is limited to seeing them fly past me, doors on, aircon cranked, whilst I blat around trying to get enough wind thru the doors to dry the sweat off, with out flying out of balance all day.

I have to admit that i am quite attached to our old Astro though, after all these years. Hopefully someone with more R II knowledge can fill me.....
chop.
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Old 11th Sep 2006, 03:58
  #867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: q.l.d
Posts: 56
wow a few old friends maybe ,,,, i too know this area (maud ck ) top end torque maybe we have covered the same area ? maybe worked together. does your first name start with J
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Old 11th Sep 2006, 16:06
  #868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the moment
Posts: 51
Looking for a R44 Raven II near St Loius/Dakar Senegal for a photo shoot in October.

Creaser
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Old 15th Sep 2006, 07:37
  #869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 51
R44 hot-start

G`day Gents/ladies

Been told so many different ways to hot-start the 44 after re-fueling - some say prime once and then crank - others say prime full 3-5 sec`s and then crank - some say no prime at all..............to prime or not to prime that is the question!!?? Feedback would be great.
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Old 15th Sep 2006, 08:44
  #870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 205
4-5 twists of throttle prior to start....

I have never had a hot-start....
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Old 15th Sep 2006, 08:54
  #871 (permalink)  

Better red than ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I think he means starting a warm engine.

Varies by machine to be honest.

"Just a few cranks" is usually enough. Not more than 6 on most machines.

h-r
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Old 15th Sep 2006, 08:58
  #872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: abroad
Age: 49
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I don't bother priming at all, just push the mixture in a touch and crank.
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Old 15th Sep 2006, 09:56
  #873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: uk
Age: 54
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Probably depends on what it is, Astros seem to love it, Raven II's seem a little bit unhappy hot starting at times (vapourisation maybe?)
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Old 15th Sep 2006, 11:55
  #874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 10
Mixture rich and crank up to about 20 mins after engine off before I would prime engine again. (Raven 11).
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Old 16th Sep 2006, 04:43
  #875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,958
does your first name start with J
Now,
that's a leading question
for an anon forum
buckets of sunshine,
canoe dreaming,
rich red walls of rock,
I don't recall ever answering
to a monicor starting with J.

chopperplug

all understood,
a habit that FOI's seem to have,
at the crossroads, Alice Springs,
they come from everywhwere,
just dropping by?????????

so far they don't have the habit of some guvmt men that one meets in the bush
with their first ten dreaded words being,

"i'm from the guvmt and I'm here to help you."

shiver!!

BTW the r44 at the sewage ponds, was it on initial departures after service, as that's probably where it would first touch that airspeed??? If so was anything changed b4 the flight.

good point re the xmon rubbers, after all many of us had lucky, startling and rather pungent experiences with the famous drive belts in the R22's which were adamantly defended as the same product until the defense became indefensible?
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Old 20th Sep 2006, 08:58
  #876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: scotland
Posts: 207
Timed out R44 Raven II

Can anyone give me an idea of the cost of a timed out Raven II and also the rate you would use per hour to get an idea of value in a used one, ie core value of X then remaining hours at Y. And before we get all the "it depends on equipment, condition etc etc" I am only looking for a guide on a basic machine. Thanks guys,
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Old 20th Sep 2006, 23:55
  #877 (permalink)  
HFT
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 12
Email the factory and ask the cost of a rebuild kit / by 2200 and thats your rough per hour price. Use a 10 yr avg for your currency conversion. Take the rebuild cost off the new price and that is a starting price for the hull, remember though that is the price for a brand new hull not time ex. I have heard of offers of 60k to 100k AUD for R11 hulls. Accident damaged hulls are treated harshly by the market which has always been a problem, the main reason is that frank doesn't encourage rebuilds, more out of financial than safety concerns.
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Old 25th Sep 2006, 12:11
  #878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 10
What is it worth?

Is there a helicopter equivalent of a parkers price guide or could someone guide me to a thread on helicopter valuation? Looking to sell my raven 11 and want to know what it is worth. Cheers.
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Old 25th Sep 2006, 12:57
  #879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 322
Originally Posted by REDHOTCH0PPERPILOT View Post
Is there a helicopter equivalent of a parkers price guide or could someone guide me to a thread on helicopter valuation? Looking to sell my raven 11 and want to know what it is worth. Cheers.
I will give you 100K cash!
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Old 25th Sep 2006, 14:19
  #880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 10
Done! Did I mention it has only been dynamically rolled once.
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