Robinson R44

[Milky Milky]

POH

Ken
I take it you follow the POH when starting but not the bit about removing duals when flying.
I take it all back if your young passenger is actually 17 and a licence holder.

[Rescue One]

The IO540 engine and most fuel injected engines has always been a little tricky to start, especially when warm/hot. They are exactly the same in fixed wing as well due to the heat from the engine causing the fuel in the lines to evaporate which is replaced by air which needs to be replaced by fuel by purging the system (priming) which seems to be differant on every start. On a modern fuel injection system of course this is all taken care of by sensors which know the heat of the engine and the outside air tempreture and feed it all back to the ECU which then calculates exactly how much fuel is needed at the injector.

May be someone could have a word with Frank !!

I also have problems getting it just right, but as the machines get more use (older) they seem to get better ?

[IntheTin]

Here in Florida the Raven II I fly started having problems starting, so much so that a couple of times the battery was dying.
This wasn't a problem at all but just started being one out of the blue.
I changed the start up to prime for only two seconds with the mixture full rich and haven't had a problem since.
Others I have flown all seem to be a little different. Must be female

[Alpharotor]

I have had my 44II since last July. On the first start after sitting about a week I prime 5 sec's, then crack the throttle open and closed, crank for 2 more and it starts great. After the first start of the day I use normal procedure.

[scooter boy]

I've had my Clipper II since Feb 04 and have 520+hrs on it.

I have never had problems starting it but know other who have had problems starting other machines with the same powerplant.

What I do:

cold engine:
mixture full rich
prime 8-10s
mixture full out
wait 30s
start it
quickly push mixture full in and apply cover
It should fire first time - this engine starts more easily when cold.

warm/hot engine:
mixture full rich (possibly crack throttle open slightly while priming)
prime 4-5s
mixture full out
wait 10s
start
quickly push mixture full in and apply cover
The engine needs to turn over a few cycles before starting when hot.

This works for me,

SB

[MLH]

Cold start: full rich - 2 second prime - leave full rich and crank.

Hot start: as per the Robinson manual, 3 second prime instead of 5.

[heli-mad]

RavenII is a bit tricky to start but i teach all my students the same ... as per POH... 3-5 secs prime with mixture full rich, pull mixture out, starter engaged and LISTEN the engine.....when it starts firing mixture full rich and release starter I think its the sequence and how you treat the start up list that Robinson factory has produced

Works for me!! Dont try to re-invent the wheel ....it doesnt say anywhere 10 or 15 secs priming Whats the point of that? Its a fuel injected engine.

H-M

[cholmondeley]

Which R44

I am looking to buy a good used R44 about 3years old with about 300 hours TT I am informed the Raven 2 suffers more from corrosion than a Raven 1(I cannot imagine why) and that the Raven 1 is easier to start; has a more robust engine; has more reliable hydraulics; almost the same performance and is generally more suitable for UK use. Is this true or just the words of a Raven 1 owner/seller? I appreciate of course that the Raven 1 is considerably cheaper.

[Pandalet]

I can't speak to the corrosion, as I've never owned one (I just fly them); there was a thread on here somewhere about R44 corrosion, try a search.

Regarding starting, although the procedure is different, I wouldn't say either is more or less difficult, especially not if it's something you do reasonably regularly.

The Raven 2 has an extra 100lb of payload, which may or may not matter to you. It's also fuel injected, so no carb heat to worry about (or carb icing, for that matter). No idea about the robustness of the engine or hydraulics, as I've never had either fail on me.

If I were buying one, I'd probably go for the Raven 1 just for the cheaper initial outlay, but then, your financial situation is probably different to mine. They certainly feel pretty much identical to fly, in my (limited) experience.

[heli-mad]

Raven II

If you can afford it go for the Raven II, bit more power, NO CARB HEAT to worry about all the time,better in auto's (i believe they have slightly wider blades..correct me if i'm wrong...).

Overall i belive it handles a little bit better that Raven I. But dont get me wrong, both are great so what ever you're gonna get..happy flying!!

I have over 200h in 44's never had a problem, regarding the start of the Raven II check for the relevant thread in this forum.........

H-M

[21lefthand]

I've got a raven 1 on order because its £28,000 cheaper (and I'm a farmer) I've heard lots of different opinions e.g. resale value ,slightly lower pay load, slightly slower and the need for carb heat. I've never flown a raven 2 so I'll not know what I'm missing. I will be interested to see what people say to you on this thread because I am planning on keeping it for a while.


21

[Helicopterist]

It's not when you fly a Raven II that you regret having bought a Raven I.
It's when you realize you forgot about carb heat when you really, really should have not.

[waragee]

Raven 2 starting problems

If you are starting your Raven 2 according to the book and it is still proving hard to start it is a fair bet that the mixture thingo needs adjusting. This should be checked by the engineers probably every couple of hundred hours. They have to check how much fuel is going into the FCU when the pump is going or something like that. I know it can make a big difference.
Also sometimes a very warm start is best handled with mixture rich using the cyclic start button and modulating carefully the throttle opening.
A chap earlier said to listen to the engine, thats exactly right as sometimes its firing but it seems like the starter being engaged is stopping it from getting over the bump to smooth running. You can hear the engine popping away quietly and when you take your finger off the starter and pay more attention to throttle opening it gets going better.

[bladewashout]

Well I just added the 30k to the bill and ordered the raven II on the basis that I'd willingly hand it over in those moments between forgetting the carb heat and hitting the ground....

Also, slightly more power means when I screw it up close to the ground I have slightly more chance of getting away with it.

But I'm just a coward!

BW

[21lefthand]

good point

Its just been held up for 6 weeks due to Robinson doing a carb up grade, so it might mean i can change it for a raven 2. I think I will ring up tomorrow.

Thanks for the advice.

21

[bvgs]

Raven 1 vs Raven 2

Firstly thanks to all who answered my question re starting my Raven 2. I have found that priming for 5 secs when cold and leaving the mixture IN works great and the machine starts first time.

On the above topic one thing that I notice is that I get better fuel consumption on the Raven 2. Now I know that according to the spec that isn't the case but when i flew my Raven 1 I would probably use more carb heat than was required, also here in Scotland the weather is very damp alot of the time and perfect conditions for carb icing. So as a result of the heat being applied you use more fuel. Now I'll be the first to admit that I no doubt used more heat than was required and therefore made the consumption worse but on speaking to fellow ppl(h)'s I don't think I was alone. I love my raven 2, can fly around when its damp etc and not have a care in the world about icing and that extra little bit of power as a previous ppruner said might just get you out of trouble. I did have to have a fuel pump replaced as the seal inside had been allowing the leaking of oil. This was caught at a 50hr service, now you wouldn't get that on a Raven 1. Would still take a Raven 2 if i was ordering new.

[whirlwind]

Corrosion

Pandalet: Raven II; 18 months or so old; 420 hrs. Corrosion? Yes, so much so, that the tail boom had to be scrapped - I'm talking about a month ago. This came as a big surprise to the owners, but there's thread somewhere (haven't got time to check) that says it's not an uncommon problem.... Cheers, WW

[FLY 7]

Can someone guide a newbie through the likely operating costs for a new(ish) Raven II - say 150hrs pa, private use?

I can guesstimate fuel, hangarage, insurance, etc, but need to know about maintenance and, specifically, how do you calculate depreciation? Or, do you factor in the rebuild costs at the end of 12 years?

Thanks

[bladewashout]

FLY 7

See your pms

BW

[nellycopter]

Can Anyone advise on max wind for R44

hi there,

i'm a a low time pilot with 240hrs - 180 on the R44 & rest on the R22 which i trained in.
i have trawled the internet trying to find out what wind i could safley fly in but cant find much at all.
the flight manual says very little on this subject and i was hoping you guys could help me out.

many thanks in advance.