Robinson R44

[bvgs]

Would This Be approved In The UK??

Following some helpful info on here I found ths link:

http://www.airwolf.com/Products/OilF...9/Default.aspx

Would this be legal here in the UK and does anyone know anyone who has fitted one?

Thanks for all the replies so far.

[ibtm]

R44 crash

Has anyone heard what caused the crash of the R44 out west with the 2 Canadians in May----they were very experience pilots and the wx was excellent. You hate to hear that high time pilots in good WX crashed! The R44 has such an excellent safety record----just wonder if they had a bird strike???

[bvgs]

R44 Repalcement Front Screens

Can anyone tell me the cost of the front screens for an R44 and also an estimate as to how much labour would be charged to remove the old ones and fit new ones. Currently looking at a heli that has had some idiot clean it with what looks like sandpaper!! Thanks

[headsethair]

Can't help you on the costs - but you reminded me of a recent story about an SFH pilot who went for the weekend with his parents. His father decided to help out with cleaning the R44. Son returned to find screen in a haze - father had decided to use a Scotchbrite pad to get the flies off.

Maybe that's the R44 you're looking at !

[bvgs]

Scotchbrite!!

Sounds like it. There are scratches in all directions all over both screens, a real shame.

[Flingwing207]

An electric random orbital polisher and various grit polishes will eliminate some pretty hefty scratching - I cleaned up a 300CBi on which a student did pretty much the same thing, as well as an R44 bubble which got "rubbed" by the tail of an airplane. Wen tools makes a nice cordless, and Novus has a good range of plastic polish just for the purpose.

[TiPwEiGhT]

R44 Pop-Out Float Gear

Can anyone tell me why the UK CAA don't approve R44 pop-outs for commercial air transport? Is it just cause they're sh te?

TiP

[Gaseous]

R44 Screens.
The roof windows on my aircraft get very scratched pulling a canvas cover over it. I use a product called Micromesh which is a series of ever finer abrasive pads finishing with an acrylic polishing paste. All done by hand. It is simple if time consuming to restore to new condition. I use it about once a year. I have tried a random orbit sander and it works but if you are not careful, you can end up with dents in the acrylic which look wavy. Micromesh does not alter the optical properties of the acrylic.

[helicopter-redeye]

Originally Posted by TiPwEiGhT

Can anyone tell me why the UK CAA don't approve R44 pop-outs for commercial air transport?

It has the same logic as most things from the CAA ..... Prevention of an effective aviation industry within the country.

h-r

[bvgs]

Thanks gaseous I'll have a look for that if I go ahead with the machine. Hows the Enstrom flying, there was one in the hangar at Elite where I was looking at the 44. It was an F28a, there was also one that had been dismantled( looked like it had been sitting there for years) maybe good for spares???

[Flingwing207]

Originally Posted by Gaseous

I have tried a random orbit sander and it works...

I hope you mean "polisher" and not "sander" - two completely different machines.

[Gaseous]

Fling, I did mean a sander! When I got my aircraft the screens were really, really bad. My engineer said it was beyond polishing so we used a sander with 1500 & 3000 grit paper for starters Then we changed the soleplate to a polishing pad with which we used renovo paste. It was OK and got through its CofA which included a CAA surveyor checking it out. There were also cracks which he stop drilled. I didnt like them so soon after I changed all the transparencies. (expensive!). Micromesh is his preferred method of restoration unless they are really bad.

bvgs. Thanks. At the risk of tempting fate it is smoother than ever.

[13snoopy]

Originally Posted by bvgs

On looking to purchase either a late hydraulic Astro or an early Raven, is there any difference between the models apart from the name. One dealer is advertising a Raven but it is infact registered as an Astro. He tells me there's no difference. Help would be appreciated, oh and if anyone has one and wants an R22 as a trade-in (cash in bank ready to do transaction) let me know! Thanks

Astro doesn't have hydraulics unless they have been added by factory or service center. Astro's have the electric trim. And are a little lighter.

[HFT]

Robinson hire rates

Ive owned 14 Robbys both R22 and R44 and its just been pointed out to me that I don't actually own any of them at all. I get the use of them for 2,200 hours or twelve years. I can sell or buy a new or used one in that time but come what may at the end of the "hire" time back it goes, and Frank gets to charge what he likes before I can get it back. Get it rebuilt somewhere else ? Well the factory pricing of spares and exchange is remarkable. The total cost of the parts is so close to having the factory do the work that it is only the freight advantage from Australia that means it is (just) better to do it here.
Don't get me wrong I love the machine have great faith in it and have had a full career in helicopters only because of Franks talent. But i think he needs more than awards for helicopter design, his marketing and financial cunning are unmatched by any other field i can think of

[bvgs]

Hire Rates!

Totally agree and its not as if they're cheap with a new Raven II approaching $400,000 US by the time you spec it up. However, I believe you can now do a partial rebuild(overhaul) and so long as you replace the callender life parts, others can remain. So if you get to 12 years, have had the blades replaced half way through the helicopters life and an engine that has done only 1200 hours you don't need to replace the blades or engine at the rebuild. They will of course require changing when their callender life or hours are up, but helps a little.

There is a company in the UK who rebuilt an R44 Astro for around £50,000 approx $90,000 US and it is being sold with 12 years and 800 hours so maybe things are changing.....a bit!

I list the link below:

http://www.cotswoldhelicopters.co.uk/21114.html

Cheers to all and glad things are smooth Gaseous! Long may it continue.

[Hairyplane]

Covers

It puzzles me why a set of proper, lined covers arent viewed by more as an essential accessory.

Pulling 'a bit of canvas' over the roof of your flying machine sounds like false economy Gaseous??

The screens on my 5 year old Robin Regent are like brand new simply because I take care cleaning them at the end of every flying day with clean full-skin chamois leathers and always put its soft-lined Cambrai cover(s) on afterwards, hangared or otherwise.

I treat my 44 the same.

Transparencies are huge bucks to replace. It should never be necessary to use any abrasive cleaner on them. With care they should never get scratched.

I simply do not allow anybody else to clean them. I paid for the thing, I know what it cost, I know how upset I would be if somebody else 'left their mark' on my flying machine.

I agree that the Robinson is a terrific machine. In business myself I applaud Frank for what he has achieved. If he earns a good living then fair play and much respect.



Hairyplane

[Gaseous]

Actually, the canvas is a full set of Cambrai lined covers. The problem is that it is such big cover that the only way to do it on my own is to drag it over the roof and if any grit gets on it, it scratches.

I agree, it is essential if the aircraft lives outside which mine does.The front screens are still fine.

I live next to a sand quarry hence the grit problem.

[Hairyplane]

Cambrai covers

Hi Gaseous,

I think my advice to anybody with a set of covers is -

Never, ever put them on a dirty aircraft - all you'll do is make the nice soft white perspex-protecting lining grubby and laden with scratchy dust and grit - ugh!

If you dont have time to clean it down, best to leave the covers off until you have.

Also, if anybody accidentally allows the canopy cover to fall 'inside down' on the deck or just once put it on a dirty aircraft, it shouldn't be used until it has been washed.

Cambrai are a great company who can refurb older covers - incl. stitching in a replacement soft lining.

This may sound extreme until you take a look at my 5 year old transparencies - indistinguishable from brand new.

It really is worth doing. When the time comes to sell, I can't think of a better demonstration of care than to wow the prospective purchaser with 'as new' transparencies.

All of the products described are designed to put right something that should never have happened in the first place.

All the best

Hairy

[Gaseous]

In reply to an e-mail from a prospective Cambrai customer here's a picture of a full set. It protects everything except the landing gear. It takes 5 minutes to put it on. Hope this answers your question Jack.

I know its not a 44 but we are talking about covers at the moment and I dont have a 44 cover.

[Hairyplane]

Covers

Looks good!

While I have Cambrai covers for my fixed wing machines ( vintage and modern) I have a full set of 'Copter Covers' for my R44.

I think they were IRO £1600 for the set.

I havent actually used them yet, simply because the thing is fairly new, I havent yet had to overnight in cr@ppy weather, use the canopy cover supplied ( perfectly adequate but for some reason doesn't cover the rear windows..??) otherwise and all other times the thing lives in a heated/ dehumidified purpose- built hangar.

THe 44 is of course easy to put away in a hangar with the blades fore/aft and thus has a definate advantage over a 3-blader.

My hangar is quite narrow ( but unfortunately wide enough to fit in the garden furniture, mower and all the other cr@p we dont like to chuck away...) and was therefore quite cheap - £10k all in, lit, the lot. All very smart and substantial in brown wrinkly tin on a steel frame.

HP