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Robinson R44

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Robinson R44

Old 13th Feb 2006, 17:20
  #721 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Switzerland
Age: 49
Posts: 175
I believe this will be out of temp. range for most helicopters? It will definatly be hard to cool the oil in a recip. engine with 50 Deg. Cels. air.
Bitmonx is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2006, 17:56
  #722 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: westofbara
Posts: 14
good point, i have taken this over temp into consideration as the temp will be 40+ for 2-3 months of the year. I could ground the craft for this period and take the hit in loss of turnover. a 206 might be an option but was attracted by the lower running costs of the 44. keep posts comming, any ideas or thoughts are welcome.
cpt hobbs is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2006, 20:01
  #723 (permalink)  

Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Posts: 1,407
Raven II 100hr check (not annual/ non star) 722 + Vat (ex consumables).

Depends who you buy from ...

helicopter-redeye is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2006, 20:23
  #724 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Norfolk
Age: 80
Posts: 291
From the earliest to the latest R44's, I can't say in the real world that I have noticed a great difference in performance. The good news is that the MAUW has gone up, but so has the empty weight. If you fit the pop out float kit, you take quite a hit on payload and it isn't realistically a four person helicopter any more over any sort of range. Offhand I think the performance graphs stop at 40degC. I think you can now get air con, but I hate to think what that would do to payload in addition to the pop outs. Good luck!
rotorfossil is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2006, 23:26
  #725 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 259

Why not post the itemised bill and ask others for an opinion based on that?
i4iq is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 01:27
  #726 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: In Canada's breastland ...mmmm
Posts: 56
I have flown the Astro, Raven and Raven II and find that there is a big difference between the the two Ravens... big difference!

The II has different MR ant TR blades and is faster, smoother, quieter and will autorotate like a Long Ranger! The new fuel injected engine is far ahead of the carburated model especially when hot and high becomes a factor in terms of performance. Fuel efficiency is also better. Starts like a charm... way better in hot conditions when engine is warm and will not give you the same grief as the carb engine when the temp is in the minus... may be not a problem for you. Starter on collective to facilitate engine restart in flight... just in case!

A/C is available and is not that heavy. Definetly wouldn't use it for take off and landing so power available would not really be affected if only used in cruise or on the ground. I have flown in 42c between 2500' and 5000' for a day and the RRPM was as solid as can be and the machine felt like a turbine more than a piston. Oil temp was definitely at the higher end of the green but never had a problem. Didn't hover much, though.

The GW is 2500 instead of 2400... not negligeable for a light machine.

New 28v electrical system... finally!

It is definitely a better all around aircraft and think that it became what the 44 was meant to be.

Really nice aircraft to fly. I would advise you on getting the Raven II if you do get a 44. The difference in price is negligeable when you're behind the controls day in day out... believe me.

Galapagos is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 04:50
  #727 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: westofbara
Posts: 14

a big thank you Galapagos,
interesting hearing what you have to say about the differences and i will take it all into account. your reply is greatly appreciated. think the price difference is $50k which isnt much when split over 2200 hours considering the benefits of operating the 2. Think the A/C would be a must espescially approaching the hotter part of the year. the added speed would be a bonus as the power boats are approaching 130 mph these days!!\ if any one has any advice on operation of the 44 during taxi ops or filming please add comment. again thanks G and all the best.
cpt hobbs is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 08:46
  #728 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 573
Have you considered a FH1100
Head Turner is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 10:48
  #729 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 42
I think the Raven I is better. Raven II has better performance at altitude but if operating at low level not much in it. Raven II fuel burn is GREATER than Raven I in real life, although both are quoted around 14gph.
Although the MTOW is 2500 in the Raven II, compared to 2400 in a Raven I, the BEM is also higher by 65lbs so you don't get much increase payload options.
Raven II is 50k more, which is not a small amount!
Pop out floats are good, but remember they take around 3 seconds to fully inflate, not much help if your photographing boats low level, but great for pleasure flights, and I think you may have problems fitting pop outs and aircon on the same machine.
IMHO Boat photography doesn't tend to be around Vne but quite a bit slower, also you will be operating out of trim, hover OGE, and hovering backwards, for the shots. Also make sure you have a RAD ALT fitted if you're operating low level over the water.
Hangar3 is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 11:33
  #730 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: westofbara
Posts: 14

Head turner, thanks, never considered a fh1100, they are pretty unique dont think there are many around and parts would be tricky to get hold of, but worth considering.

fair point about the increase in wieght on the raven 2, not much gain (35lbs difference) but there is the extra speed and new rotors being quieter, again does the whole package justify the $50 k extra? any opinions?. pop out floats i will consider and thanks for the radar alt, will add that to the list of extras, a valuable piece of kit.

is it better to find a low hour second hand R44 (2), which has eaten most of the depreciation? if so any ideas on good sites to search on?

this has been a great help so far, much appreciated. cheers.
cpt hobbs is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 15:37
  #731 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Norfolk
Age: 80
Posts: 291
Try visiting www.helicopterflight.net/R44.htm for some more info which you may find useful.
rotorfossil is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 17:55
  #732 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 22
Try the people at Heliair in Buckinghamshire - they sent a 44 round the world and I'm fairly certain it had extended tanks.
nervouspassenger is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 19:20
  #733 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: westofbara
Posts: 14
ok cheers just off to have a look at the site now. thanks.
cpt hobbs is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 19:33
  #734 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: westofbara
Posts: 14
Rotor fossil, thanks for that link, it is a great site with lots of info so i have a bit of reading to do. good comparison between the 44, 206 and md500. will let you know how i get on. Thanks and all the best.
cpt hobbs is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 21:43
  #735 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Norfolk
Age: 80
Posts: 291
Perhaps for your mix of requirements, in particular the high temperatures you also ought to consider a Squirrel AS350B3.
rotorfossil is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2006, 21:53
  #736 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Iceland
Age: 48
Posts: 509
Check this link: http://www.globalplanesearch.com/view/all/AllHE.htm
A lot to see in there
Remember though what mama said, son, don't spend all your money in one place!
Heli-Ice is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2006, 07:36
  #737 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Salisbury UK
Posts: 17
750.00 excl Consumables and VAT but does depend on your mainteance programme. The above is for a LAMS based programme which most operators use. Did they carry out the fuel upgrade? RHC quote 9 hrs for it but it takes almost double that !!!
Airmech II is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2006, 09:10
  #738 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 67
Well labour was 2k inc. vat so 30 hrs of labour sounds about right then. I would love to know what they do which takes 30 hours. The fuel upgrade was done also so I am guessing I have to pay the labour on that even though it is warranty job. Some warranty.
chopperchav is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2006, 10:22
  #739 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Salisbury UK
Posts: 17
It is about 15 hours for the inspection so the bill would appear about right and if I remember rightly the upgrade was optional but I stand to be corrected on that one........You're right the warranty is pump at best !
Airmech II is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2006, 22:32
  #740 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 699
didnt they also lose one in water near antartica with a range extender and then refuse to cooperate with the AAIB about the amount of fuel carried on board yada yada yada !



Last edited by Camp Freddie; 16th Feb 2006 at 00:04.
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