Bell 407
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Chilliwack, BC Canada
Yes, it is definitely a pilots aircraft.
There's nothing sweeter than a 407, a tanker full of Jet A, a 150' line, an 800 L bucket and a raging forest fire ...Oh, the crew of BCFS firefighting Gals weren't to bad either
There's nothing sweeter than a 407, a tanker full of Jet A, a 150' line, an 800 L bucket and a raging forest fire ...Oh, the crew of BCFS firefighting Gals weren't to bad either
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
407...we must introduce you to real helicopters....things you climb up into and walk around in....the kind you can get lost in on the way to the cockpit....real helicopters. Or in lieu of real Wokka's....at least a 212...what the zero series always wanted to be when they grew up!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: USA
407 - IMHO, the best non military single engine ship around as far as power, speed and smoothness. However there are less than 10 copies in Aus, I am told, so support may be a problem? Also glass cockpit won't like your 40+ summer days Down Under. 2 back facing seats and 2 cabin compartments is a disadvantage for sightseeing. Be prepared to send your 407 to the mechanics regularly.
B2/B3 - Great power, close to but not as powerful as 407. Hydraulics are a concern though. Better passenger layout than 407. Also you'd have to deal with the French - although they are getting better and timelier with spares. Far more copies of B2 and B3's around than 407 so the backup expertise is very good.
EC-130 - Very beautiful lines, very modern and very expensive to run. Terrible range but you can put in an aux tank. Up to 8 POB all facing forwards. Only a handful in your part of the world so servicing/spares/expertise will be an issue. Flies almost as beautifully as the 407 in terms of speed, grunt and smoothness.
206L-IV - Old, venerable, very reliable, cheap but a very good ship. They're everywhere so there are almost no bugs in them, spares are cheap and you can buy them at any Walmart (almost). This is a Holden (in Australian parlance) instead of a prestige model like a Cadillac.
Don't worry about left and right foot pedal use - like driving a LH drive car in the US or a RH drive car in the UK, you'd get used to it.
B2/B3 - Great power, close to but not as powerful as 407. Hydraulics are a concern though. Better passenger layout than 407. Also you'd have to deal with the French - although they are getting better and timelier with spares. Far more copies of B2 and B3's around than 407 so the backup expertise is very good.
EC-130 - Very beautiful lines, very modern and very expensive to run. Terrible range but you can put in an aux tank. Up to 8 POB all facing forwards. Only a handful in your part of the world so servicing/spares/expertise will be an issue. Flies almost as beautifully as the 407 in terms of speed, grunt and smoothness.
206L-IV - Old, venerable, very reliable, cheap but a very good ship. They're everywhere so there are almost no bugs in them, spares are cheap and you can buy them at any Walmart (almost). This is a Holden (in Australian parlance) instead of a prestige model like a Cadillac.
Don't worry about left and right foot pedal use - like driving a LH drive car in the US or a RH drive car in the UK, you'd get used to it.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
For the money...would not an L4 be a good compromise all the way around....good value for money...lots of spares...they go 100 hour to 100 hour...plenty of power in most applications...and nowhere the numbers of AD's SB's etc. Also ....no FADEC to worry about. Not as fast as the competition but the customer service issue is not a problem...your engineers already know the basic machine. Lots of the same spares....etc.
Gatvol
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 1
From: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Sasless, your growing old. Sure a new L4 is nice, but it aint no 407........
Im telling you once you fly one, you wont want to get back in an L........
Not saying Im a total 407 fan as in the begining, as most aircraft, it had big bugs. But , as most aircraft, the first dummies to buy them have no paid for those.................Its Sweeeet.
Im telling you once you fly one, you wont want to get back in an L........
Not saying Im a total 407 fan as in the begining, as most aircraft, it had big bugs. But , as most aircraft, the first dummies to buy them have no paid for those.................Its Sweeeet.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Chilliwack, BC Canada
I agree with the last two posts. (Warren and Sasless)
The L4 is great value for your dollar.
Good power, especially in hot and high conditions.
Good speed, our L3's on low gear scoot along quite well..when light, much better than a 206, not quite as good as the 407.
Good range, better than a 407, not quite as good as an Astar.
Very safe and economical ....and
Will probably fit into your existing hangar. 3 and 4 blade aircraft (without a blade folding kit ) are hangar hogs.
If I had the money, I'd be buying an L4 for my personal use. The chances of that happening are slim to none though
The L4 is great value for your dollar.
Good power, especially in hot and high conditions.
Good speed, our L3's on low gear scoot along quite well..when light, much better than a 206, not quite as good as the 407.
Good range, better than a 407, not quite as good as an Astar.
Very safe and economical ....and
Will probably fit into your existing hangar. 3 and 4 blade aircraft (without a blade folding kit ) are hangar hogs.
If I had the money, I'd be buying an L4 for my personal use. The chances of that happening are slim to none though
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 128
Likes: 7
From: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks guys, really appreciate the input, v helpful.
I'm actually thinking about it for my partner in the UK (so's I can drive it during the Brit summer
) , rather than here in Oz - so maybe the support side is less of an issue.
Tend to agree with SASless that what I'd really like is a Huey; feels like the old Wessex and with nearly the same fun of actually mounting the door of your trusty steed. The 212 was just as much fun - took one vertically out of the Hague city centre a couple of years back with a nearly full load of actors on board and plenty of go-juice. Somebody described it as a "yes" machine, as in "can you take......." "Yes, no problem".
.......but then you have to find work for these big thirsty beasties and that ain't so much fun.
Cheers
JerryG
I'm actually thinking about it for my partner in the UK (so's I can drive it during the Brit summer
) , rather than here in Oz - so maybe the support side is less of an issue.Tend to agree with SASless that what I'd really like is a Huey; feels like the old Wessex and with nearly the same fun of actually mounting the door of your trusty steed. The 212 was just as much fun - took one vertically out of the Hague city centre a couple of years back with a nearly full load of actors on board and plenty of go-juice. Somebody described it as a "yes" machine, as in "can you take......." "Yes, no problem".
.......but then you have to find work for these big thirsty beasties and that ain't so much fun.
Cheers
JerryG
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
Bert me old son,
I hate to tell you but we have grown old...we have beat the odds so far! So far my beard is gray...not white. I am getting better at not scaring myself.
Now if the man wants a Huey....have I got a deal for him....complete with de-mil'd guns....that we can handle for him. I even know where he can test drive one.
I hate to tell you but we have grown old...we have beat the odds so far! So far my beard is gray...not white. I am getting better at not scaring myself.
Now if the man wants a Huey....have I got a deal for him....complete with de-mil'd guns....that we can handle for him. I even know where he can test drive one.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: outnabout
CQ 407 Final Report
The CQ 407 investigation final report is here: http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/pdf/200304282.pdf
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
There was an article in Flight a couple of weeks back suggesting that Bell is still conducting an ‘internal competition’ between the fenestron (sorry, tail fan 
) and PATS for MAPL. I'm yet to be convinced that Bell would choose PATS for a civil product, but we’ll see.
I/C
) and PATS for MAPL. I'm yet to be convinced that Bell would choose PATS for a civil product, but we’ll see.I/C
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 127
From: West
Bell 407 and Garmin 430 problem
Maintenance and Garmin are at a loss for a problem with our 430.
If the rotors are turning the Garmin takes 5 mins to find itself and occassionaly it will fail in flight (5 minutes). Replaced the control head 3x, switched connectors, antenna, cables.
Pilots are sure the antenna location may be the problem but Maintenance and Garmin say no.
Another 407 and a 412 have the same problems. We even checked what avionics tech installed the equipment.
Any ideas?
If the rotors are turning the Garmin takes 5 mins to find itself and occassionaly it will fail in flight (5 minutes). Replaced the control head 3x, switched connectors, antenna, cables.
Pilots are sure the antenna location may be the problem but Maintenance and Garmin say no.
Another 407 and a 412 have the same problems. We even checked what avionics tech installed the equipment.
Any ideas?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 82
Likes: 1
From: Australia
GPS needs service??
I have the same problem with a BK117, The antenna is mounted on the Hyd Cowling and the GPS comes up with "GPS needs service" With some investigatton we found that another operator had the same problem with their BK wit the antenna mounted in the same spot. They repositioned the antenna on the cowling between the exhaust diffusers pretty close down to the tail boom and this seemed to cure the problem.
I believe the garmin units can get confused with some multi blade helicopters interfering with the recieved signal from satelites, with the antenna so close to the head and blades this causes a pulsing distortion of the recieved GPS signal that causes the service fault to come up. It seems that getting as much vertical space between the antenna and blades is the go and also as far away from the hub as possible.
We have a 400 fitted to an AS365 and the antenna is mounted on the top of the fin with no problems in that install.
PM me and I will see if I can find some photos of the BK antenna mount
I believe the garmin units can get confused with some multi blade helicopters interfering with the recieved signal from satelites, with the antenna so close to the head and blades this causes a pulsing distortion of the recieved GPS signal that causes the service fault to come up. It seems that getting as much vertical space between the antenna and blades is the go and also as far away from the hub as possible.
We have a 400 fitted to an AS365 and the antenna is mounted on the top of the fin with no problems in that install.
PM me and I will see if I can find some photos of the BK antenna mount
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 83
From: Gold Coast, Australia
FWIW,
Our BK117 has a 430 with the antenna on the hyd cowling, and the setup works a treat. Never a problem in 2-3 years. Go figure?
Our JetRangers have Garmins, with the antennae on the battery lid, on the nose. They haven't given any reception problems in about 10 years
Our BK117 has a 430 with the antenna on the hyd cowling, and the setup works a treat. Never a problem in 2-3 years. Go figure?
Our JetRangers have Garmins, with the antennae on the battery lid, on the nose. They haven't given any reception problems in about 10 years
Last edited by John Eacott; 6th July 2005 at 22:32.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 127
From: West
bell 407 and garmin 430
Spoke to the mechanic and he has gotten approval to move the antenna to the nose. FYI he had to do ground tests yeterday with moving the antenna to several locations on the aircraft.
Thanks for the input
Thanks for the input
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: South Africa
Bell 407 - Problems again.
Is it only the South African 407's that are having HMU problems (large number of the SA fleet grounded due to HMU faults and awaiting parts, support, etc) or is this a world wide problem. Seems our problems only started after the upgrade was installed. Where is Bell when you need them. Better yet, where's a good Squirrel when you need one?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 82
Likes: 1
From: Australia
What problems are you having??
Our 407 recently came up with a "Restart Fault" on test it showed up as an igniter relay fault but there were no problems starting the machine, every shutdown the fault came back, this was just after HMU change but I don't think it would be due to the HMU, Who knows!!!
Our 407 recently came up with a "Restart Fault" on test it showed up as an igniter relay fault but there were no problems starting the machine, every shutdown the fault came back, this was just after HMU change but I don't think it would be due to the HMU, Who knows!!!
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Chilliwack, BC Canada
We're having some start Relay problems on our ship. It's definitely to do with the Relay, vs the HMU though. The start light does not illuminate during the initial start sequence, but the aircraft starts fine.
No issues with HMU's in the entire fleet (7 aircraft )
No issues with HMU's in the entire fleet (7 aircraft )