Bell 407
Join Date: Feb 2002
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My very personal insight, I never argue or ask why when a mechanic tells me we have to fly, reason is simple, I LOVE TO FLY, especially in a 407 and with nothing in particular to do!
PS: I don't ever recall having to go fly after they replaced anything related to the generator in a 407, but I have started to like your mechanic.
PS: I don't ever recall having to go fly after they replaced anything related to the generator in a 407, but I have started to like your mechanic.
Flight
Don't get me wrong, I am only trying to further understand the systems by asking why we needed the flight.
The mech is good about explaining what he has done on the aircraft. He has always had the manual out while doing a procedure, shows us what tools he used and that they are back in the tool box.
And he always goes on the ops flight check without being asked.
The mech is good about explaining what he has done on the aircraft. He has always had the manual out while doing a procedure, shows us what tools he used and that they are back in the tool box.
And he always goes on the ops flight check without being asked.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I like your mech too!!
Any mech that goes along on a test or function flight, even uninvited is welcome in my book to do so.
Proves his work has been done thoroughly checked and cross checked and should things then go wrong, he's in for the ride...
Either way you win! The guys that will voluntarily go are few and far between!! Don't seem to like to risk their own necks after their "workmanship"...
Proves his work has been done thoroughly checked and cross checked and should things then go wrong, he's in for the ride...
Either way you win! The guys that will voluntarily go are few and far between!! Don't seem to like to risk their own necks after their "workmanship"...
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Recuperator,
I am curious as to the type of operation you work for.
During my entire career so far, I have yet to work with
a mechanic/technician /engineer who would not be willing
to fly in a machine he or she had worked on. With very few
exceptions, they have all taken great pride in their abilities
and "workmanship" which was evident by the shape the
aircraft were kept in.
Rigidhead
I am curious as to the type of operation you work for.
During my entire career so far, I have yet to work with
a mechanic/technician /engineer who would not be willing
to fly in a machine he or she had worked on. With very few
exceptions, they have all taken great pride in their abilities
and "workmanship" which was evident by the shape the
aircraft were kept in.
Rigidhead
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It is a two way street. The better the pilot, the more willing is the engineer to go flying. 
I cant think of any operational reason for flying after a seal change, but if you have the time, why not? After all why waste a cycle just to do a ground run.
I cant think of any operational reason for flying after a seal change, but if you have the time, why not? After all why waste a cycle just to do a ground run.
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Maybe your mechanic has replaced the seal before, and it looked good with a ground run, but after the next flight, it leaked again…
The gearbox pressures in the Rolls Royce engine are greater during flight that on the ground. The air/oil separator gear is N1 driven, and the gearbox pressures are higher at flight N1 speeds.
Or, like the others have said, the mechanic may like to fly.
What’s wrong with that?
Happy Christmas. May all your mechanic’s have this work ethic.
The gearbox pressures in the Rolls Royce engine are greater during flight that on the ground. The air/oil separator gear is N1 driven, and the gearbox pressures are higher at flight N1 speeds.
Or, like the others have said, the mechanic may like to fly.
What’s wrong with that?
Happy Christmas. May all your mechanic’s have this work ethic.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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[Spotter mode]At last week's Quad-A/AUSA conference, the RAH-70 designation was confirmed for the 407ARH. No word yet on a name. 'Slapaho' has been doing the rounds amongst the KW crews, but I'm not entirely convinced that this'll gain the approval of the Army's PR team... 
[/Spotter mode]
I/C
[/Spotter mode]I/C
Join Date: Oct 2002
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HAL assembles B407 "in day and a half"
36 hours ?!! No wonder so many companies are outsourcing to India. 
(I smell a marketing pitch. D'you think this 'assembly' process involved much more than installing the pine-scented air freshener in the cabin...? )
From Newkerala.com
HAL creates history by assembling American Bell 407 chopper
New Delhi: Having built "French" under technology transfer and the indegenious Advance Light helicopter "Dhruv", state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has for the first time successfully assembled an American Bell 407 helicopter.
"The HAL assembled helicopter has been delivered to Karnatka's VSL mining company and the task was completed within a span of a day and half", according to Max Wiley, Bell's Executive Director for Asia.
The assembling of the helicopter assumes significance as Textron company Bell 407 helicopter is bidding for the Indian Army's contract for 197 helicopters to expand its aviation wing.
Bell, along with Eurocopter, has been shortlisted for the contract and the American company's 407 helicopter has successfully completed technical evaluation including winter trials in high altitude areas of Ladakh and summer tests in the Pokhran range in the Thar desert.
Army Aviation, which at present equipped with the ageing French Aleutte I and Aleutte II helicopters is proposing to Purchase 60 helicopters outright and assemble the rest 137 in the country at HAL.
"Both Bell and HAL were equally excited that this assembly could be done at HAL since it exposed the company to the complete process of assembly and delivery of the Bell 407 helicopters" Wixley said.
I/C
(I smell a marketing pitch. D'you think this 'assembly' process involved much more than installing the pine-scented air freshener in the cabin...?
) From Newkerala.com
HAL creates history by assembling American Bell 407 chopper
New Delhi: Having built "French" under technology transfer and the indegenious Advance Light helicopter "Dhruv", state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has for the first time successfully assembled an American Bell 407 helicopter.
"The HAL assembled helicopter has been delivered to Karnatka's VSL mining company and the task was completed within a span of a day and half", according to Max Wiley, Bell's Executive Director for Asia.
The assembling of the helicopter assumes significance as Textron company Bell 407 helicopter is bidding for the Indian Army's contract for 197 helicopters to expand its aviation wing.
Bell, along with Eurocopter, has been shortlisted for the contract and the American company's 407 helicopter has successfully completed technical evaluation including winter trials in high altitude areas of Ladakh and summer tests in the Pokhran range in the Thar desert.
Army Aviation, which at present equipped with the ageing French Aleutte I and Aleutte II helicopters is proposing to Purchase 60 helicopters outright and assemble the rest 137 in the country at HAL.
"Both Bell and HAL were equally excited that this assembly could be done at HAL since it exposed the company to the complete process of assembly and delivery of the Bell 407 helicopters" Wixley said.
I/C
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I would think in this case "assembly" involved taking the helicopter of the shipping skid , assembling landing gear , perhaps MGB and TGB , main and tail rotors and rigging the flight controls . I think assembling any helicopter in 36 hrs ( Robbies included ) would be a tough feat even for Toyota.( or the Indian equivalent ). I am trying to imagine a conversation between a texan pilot and outsourced indian Bell Product support . 'why is there a turban on your helicopter ?"
A more cynical reading would mean that they assembled the aircraft, then delivered it - which probably meant stuffing it into the back of a transporter. The subsequent restoration at the receiving end, of the rotor blades, tail fin etc and test flying was what took the one-and-a-half-days, sahib.
(Why does the rotor head wobble from side to side when I talk on the radio??)
(Why does the rotor head wobble from side to side when I talk on the radio??)
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407
I see you are in India. I am looking at a couple of offers but am somewhat concerned about conditions there. Can you advise who, where and what to avoid . Also, which operators are the best / worst.
PM me and I maybe able to help you with a manual.....but doesn't your company have one in the A/C ??
PM me and I maybe able to help you with a manual.....but doesn't your company have one in the A/C ??
Buddy,
the check list in section 2 ,"Normal Procedures" ,of the flight manual, which is made and provided by the manufacturer was created by that same manufacturer and it is logical.
Just take out those little remarks here and there.
No more spoon feeding
the check list in section 2 ,"Normal Procedures" ,of the flight manual, which is made and provided by the manufacturer was created by that same manufacturer and it is logical.
Just take out those little remarks here and there.
No more spoon feeding
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Oxygen to use in a Bell 407
I am looking or a certified portable oxygen system for a Bell 407 to use in the high mountains. Anyone got any ideas, suggestion or recommendations? Thank in advance!
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Bell 407 Accident History - what does it mean?
All,
I am in the process of getting qualified on the B407 and thought it might be instructive to review the accident history of this acft. What I found was not what I expected, and I am wondering if others can help me interpret/understand what I found. The surprising thing is that it seems that 46% of all accidents in the NTSB database are attributed to mechanical failure of some sort, and of these, 29% of all accidents are due to engine failure of some kind. This seems substantially higher than other helicopters I am familiar with. For example, the Enstrom 480 has experienced only one accident due to a mechanical failure over the same time frame, and even adjusted for fleet size, this is a substantially lower rate. (The single 480 accident attributed to mechanical failure was probably an outlier as it resulted from the failure of recently installed elastomeric MR dampers which later proved to be defective in design; none of the 480 accidents are attributed to engine failure.) The Robinson R22 and R44 are said to have around 5%-7% of accidents attributable to mechanical failure, although I havent been able to confirm this with hard data.
So, what is going on here? Is this an anomaly due to bad or insufficient data, a lack of understanding on my part, or is there something else at work?
(Detailed 407 data below)
BELL 407 ACCIDENT ANALYSIS*: <18 Apr 2009>
1 PILOT ERROR: 27 48%
`
2 ENGINE FAILURE: 16 29%
2a TURBINE WHEELS: 5 9%
2b FADEC: 3 5%
2c OTHER: 8 14%
3 hangar BEARINGS: 3 5%
4 TR LOSS OF CONTROL: 2 4%
5 OTHER MECHANICAL: 5 9%
6 OTHER NON-MECHANICAL: 3 5%
ALL MECHANICAL CAUSES: 26 46%
*Based on NTSB website as of 18 Apr 2009 – 56 reported accidents since 1996
38% of all accidents (21) involved fatalities
7% of all accidents (4) involved mechnical failure and fatalities
15% of accidents due to mechanical causes involved fatalities (4)
I am in the process of getting qualified on the B407 and thought it might be instructive to review the accident history of this acft. What I found was not what I expected, and I am wondering if others can help me interpret/understand what I found. The surprising thing is that it seems that 46% of all accidents in the NTSB database are attributed to mechanical failure of some sort, and of these, 29% of all accidents are due to engine failure of some kind. This seems substantially higher than other helicopters I am familiar with. For example, the Enstrom 480 has experienced only one accident due to a mechanical failure over the same time frame, and even adjusted for fleet size, this is a substantially lower rate. (The single 480 accident attributed to mechanical failure was probably an outlier as it resulted from the failure of recently installed elastomeric MR dampers which later proved to be defective in design; none of the 480 accidents are attributed to engine failure.) The Robinson R22 and R44 are said to have around 5%-7% of accidents attributable to mechanical failure, although I havent been able to confirm this with hard data.
So, what is going on here? Is this an anomaly due to bad or insufficient data, a lack of understanding on my part, or is there something else at work?
(Detailed 407 data below)
BELL 407 ACCIDENT ANALYSIS*: <18 Apr 2009>
1 PILOT ERROR: 27 48%
`
2 ENGINE FAILURE: 16 29%
2a TURBINE WHEELS: 5 9%
2b FADEC: 3 5%
2c OTHER: 8 14%
3 hangar BEARINGS: 3 5%
4 TR LOSS OF CONTROL: 2 4%
5 OTHER MECHANICAL: 5 9%
6 OTHER NON-MECHANICAL: 3 5%
ALL MECHANICAL CAUSES: 26 46%
*Based on NTSB website as of 18 Apr 2009 – 56 reported accidents since 1996
38% of all accidents (21) involved fatalities
7% of all accidents (4) involved mechnical failure and fatalities
15% of accidents due to mechanical causes involved fatalities (4)
Last edited by EN48; 19th Apr 2009 at 12:12.
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these figures are not so much different from average of all helicopters.
Engines 15%.
Human factors 54%
All mechanical 32%.
I think that engine failure is line 2 , and 2a , 2b and 2c are subsets of line 2.
See
http://www.rotor.com/portals/12/Stat...01997-2006.xls
Interesting observation , I did detail analysis of 2006
While engine failure made up 21 of 164 accidents.
It was only primary cause in 1 of 26 fatal accidents that year.
compare that to wire strikes 9 of 164 accidents
but 5 of 26 fatal accidents.
Engines 15%.
Human factors 54%
All mechanical 32%.
I think that engine failure is line 2 , and 2a , 2b and 2c are subsets of line 2.
See
http://www.rotor.com/portals/12/Stat...01997-2006.xls
Interesting observation , I did detail analysis of 2006
While engine failure made up 21 of 164 accidents.
It was only primary cause in 1 of 26 fatal accidents that year.
compare that to wire strikes 9 of 164 accidents
but 5 of 26 fatal accidents.
Last edited by widgeon; 19th Apr 2009 at 12:49. Reason: spilling