Something mysterious in Snowdonia
Crab: Please don't dig any deeper - please!
Your comments on this forum wreak of naivity. You must remember that you are fully immersed in the military world (a most noble profession) and have very little understanding of civilian aviation. I know you THINK you know about civvy flying because you've tried time and time again to exert your perspective of civilian flying on many a previous post.
Listen up for once, OK:
Mickey mouse HEMS broken ankle and fingernail jobs do not a TDA make, not now, not never. Very few HEMS, rescues make for the calling of a TDA. This is because of the relationship between cause and effect:
Cause - broken leg on side of mountain.
Effect (if you call a TDA) - total disruption to all aviation for miles around.
They aren't worth it are they?
TDA's should only be used in anger if there is a genuine perceived threat to air/ground management in the area of disruption.
You flying around in your 10 ton banana coloured penis extension do not need a TDA to protect yourself from....what exactly????
I fly in the national park daily it is littered with GA, all of them on different frequencies, all of them taking off and landing, buzzing the park. In addition there are microlites, paragliders, radio controlled sites...need I go on.
It's called normal Class G air activity, like it or leave it but don't think because you fly with HM's roundel on the side of your a/c, that you can police the area with a big stick.............................
Leave that to us
(joke ok!)
When you leave cotton wool club, you'll become an honourary member of the real world until then......don't burn tham thar bridges sunshine - you might need them to make a quiet retreat.
As for 121x5....enough has been said.
For the rest of us: don't tar the rest of the mil with the same brush, Crab's just a bit keen
Your comments on this forum wreak of naivity. You must remember that you are fully immersed in the military world (a most noble profession) and have very little understanding of civilian aviation. I know you THINK you know about civvy flying because you've tried time and time again to exert your perspective of civilian flying on many a previous post.
Listen up for once, OK:
Mickey mouse HEMS broken ankle and fingernail jobs do not a TDA make, not now, not never. Very few HEMS, rescues make for the calling of a TDA. This is because of the relationship between cause and effect:
Cause - broken leg on side of mountain.
Effect (if you call a TDA) - total disruption to all aviation for miles around.
They aren't worth it are they?
TDA's should only be used in anger if there is a genuine perceived threat to air/ground management in the area of disruption.
You flying around in your 10 ton banana coloured penis extension do not need a TDA to protect yourself from....what exactly????
I fly in the national park daily it is littered with GA, all of them on different frequencies, all of them taking off and landing, buzzing the park. In addition there are microlites, paragliders, radio controlled sites...need I go on.
It's called normal Class G air activity, like it or leave it but don't think because you fly with HM's roundel on the side of your a/c, that you can police the area with a big stick.............................
Leave that to us
(joke ok!)When you leave cotton wool club, you'll become an honourary member of the real world until then......don't burn tham thar bridges sunshine - you might need them to make a quiet retreat.
As for 121x5....enough has been said.
For the rest of us: don't tar the rest of the mil with the same brush, Crab's just a bit keen
Naive and a bit keen wasn't quite the descriptive words that sprung to mind....sorry.
Thread Starter
I know I have hit a nerve when the only replies are of a childish and personal nature 'sticks and stones' etc.
TC - on another thread, other AA and police operators were worried about collecting a FJ up the exhaust - that is what a TDA should protect against but you don't want one. If a TDA prevents this then who cares if it disrupts aviation for mile around?
Mickey mouse HEMS jobs (your words not mine - nice view of your fellow operators) don't a TDA make - quite correct and if you bother to read my posts you will see that I haven't said it is necessary for a broken ankle in the hills - I am very happy with lookout.
No!!!!.... are there really people flying without radios in class G airspace - cor I never thought of that...........maybe we do have something to learn from the Germans.
Sasless - I think that the authorities should mandate 121.5 monitoring and that radios should be obligatory, whether in a helo, a microlight or a paraglider. I know that lots of Human rights campaigners and civil liberitarians will disagree but that is my viewpoint.
In Snowdonia, the Lake district and many other remotish areas of the UK, there is no-one to talk to at low level, even for FIS so , unless you have a company frequency and operate with other aircraft, your only hope of anyone hearing your mayday is to use 121.5 and hope that another passing aircraft (airliner probably or military) hears it and relays it - I would rather have that lifeline than not since the emergency services will be tasked immediately rather than waiting until you are overdue.
The ARCC, as you well know, does not control HEMS - it is only the tasking authority for SAR helos. If the call has come to them then it has often been through an ambulance control who have said 'non' due to the nature of the job.
The ARCC could set up a TDA for an overwater SAROP if they felt it was warranted.
There was nothing complicated about the broken ankle in Snowdonia so don't keep getting fixated on it - my thread was about 121.5 and TDAs and clearly most posters here don't agree with the need for either - that's your call, after all it's your ass on the line but just because it is inconvenient doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.
Most keen amateur sailors bother to buy a radio and listen out on Channel 16, all professional users of the sea are mandated to have certain levels of RT and distress signalling including the monitoring of international distress frequencies. They do this because they know that if they shout for help, any nearby vessel is likely to hear them and is bound to assist and if there are any urgent navigation or weather warnings they will be broadcast accordingly. It is self protection and mutual support but it seems that is not what the aviation community wants because they baulk at having to spend a few quid on a decent/second radio.
TC - on another thread, other AA and police operators were worried about collecting a FJ up the exhaust - that is what a TDA should protect against but you don't want one. If a TDA prevents this then who cares if it disrupts aviation for mile around?
Mickey mouse HEMS jobs (your words not mine - nice view of your fellow operators) don't a TDA make - quite correct and if you bother to read my posts you will see that I haven't said it is necessary for a broken ankle in the hills - I am very happy with lookout.
No!!!!.... are there really people flying without radios in class G airspace - cor I never thought of that...........maybe we do have something to learn from the Germans.
Sasless - I think that the authorities should mandate 121.5 monitoring and that radios should be obligatory, whether in a helo, a microlight or a paraglider. I know that lots of Human rights campaigners and civil liberitarians will disagree but that is my viewpoint.
In Snowdonia, the Lake district and many other remotish areas of the UK, there is no-one to talk to at low level, even for FIS so , unless you have a company frequency and operate with other aircraft, your only hope of anyone hearing your mayday is to use 121.5 and hope that another passing aircraft (airliner probably or military) hears it and relays it - I would rather have that lifeline than not since the emergency services will be tasked immediately rather than waiting until you are overdue.
The ARCC, as you well know, does not control HEMS - it is only the tasking authority for SAR helos. If the call has come to them then it has often been through an ambulance control who have said 'non' due to the nature of the job.
The ARCC could set up a TDA for an overwater SAROP if they felt it was warranted.
There was nothing complicated about the broken ankle in Snowdonia so don't keep getting fixated on it - my thread was about 121.5 and TDAs and clearly most posters here don't agree with the need for either - that's your call, after all it's your ass on the line but just because it is inconvenient doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.
Most keen amateur sailors bother to buy a radio and listen out on Channel 16, all professional users of the sea are mandated to have certain levels of RT and distress signalling including the monitoring of international distress frequencies. They do this because they know that if they shout for help, any nearby vessel is likely to hear them and is bound to assist and if there are any urgent navigation or weather warnings they will be broadcast accordingly. It is self protection and mutual support but it seems that is not what the aviation community wants because they baulk at having to spend a few quid on a decent/second radio.
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Crab,
I have 2 VHF and 2 FM in the a/c. Most of the the time I am too busy to tune to 121.5. If I am going a long ways on a x/c I'll listen. But GA CTA airspace and Air to Air Vctor take the priority.
What is intersting is that the US Foreast and Park Service require and FM air Guard freq on all contract aircraft. This has come in handy a bunch. For example: You arrive on scence for a resuce or a fire and the ranger or the fire crew does not have the air to ground fm , they can always come up on the Guard freq that overides the the fm and make contact, then switch.
RB
I have 2 VHF and 2 FM in the a/c. Most of the the time I am too busy to tune to 121.5. If I am going a long ways on a x/c I'll listen. But GA CTA airspace and Air to Air Vctor take the priority.
What is intersting is that the US Foreast and Park Service require and FM air Guard freq on all contract aircraft. This has come in handy a bunch. For example: You arrive on scence for a resuce or a fire and the ranger or the fire crew does not have the air to ground fm , they can always come up on the Guard freq that overides the the fm and make contact, then switch.
RB
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As I bimble around the UK in either a non-radio or single VHF radio fitted aircraft, I am blissfully unaware of the presence of TDAs and SAR Operations. Unless the ATC unit I am in contact with decides that the TDA is within its patch and decides to rebro the information. Outside of that big sky/little aircraft theory prevails.
A TDA protects a SAR aircraft from military flight only as the SAR crewmay be degraded in lookout (all eyes searching) or unable to manouvre (200 feet of rope out with a hero swinging underneath)
According to the DAS publication, As a non-military pilot I am not required to avoid a TDA unless the person with responsibility for the administration of that TDA specifically requests me to leave where upon it becomes a legal requirement.
If the SAR Operation requires complete sterilisation of airspace then the emergency co-ordinating authority should instigate a TRA.
A TDA protects a SAR aircraft from military flight only as the SAR crewmay be degraded in lookout (all eyes searching) or unable to manouvre (200 feet of rope out with a hero swinging underneath)
According to the DAS publication, As a non-military pilot I am not required to avoid a TDA unless the person with responsibility for the administration of that TDA specifically requests me to leave where upon it becomes a legal requirement.
If the SAR Operation requires complete sterilisation of airspace then the emergency co-ordinating authority should instigate a TRA.
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crab
as a non commercial civil pilot over 2000hrs time i can honestly say i have never heard of guard or any need to switch to 121.5 at any time unless in a EMERGENCY
i would also add that if pilots used there one and only com to switch to 121.5 you would get a lot of mistaken calls as lots of pilots forget to change freq after changing from one tower to another especially student pilots and some xperienced ones too
would you send out sar to a pilot who has a stuck ptt or who keeps sending a carrier but no speech or you cant hear him properley because he is on the ground asking for infomation using the wrong freq.
i agree that a standard com freq like in the usa may be a better way for all of us to contact each other but thats not the caa way
we have uhf for mil vhf for civvy, maybe the reason you listen in to 121.5 is that you use uhf for your standard coms and you have spare vhf not being used
there is no legal requirement in uncontrolled airpace to have a com
quote
It is self protection and mutual support but it seems that is not what the aviation community wants because they baulk at having to spend a few quid on a decent/second radio.
a second radio for a boat is a few hundred pounds a second com installed in a aircraft cost at least £3,000 some times much more
steve
as a non commercial civil pilot over 2000hrs time i can honestly say i have never heard of guard or any need to switch to 121.5 at any time unless in a EMERGENCY
i would also add that if pilots used there one and only com to switch to 121.5 you would get a lot of mistaken calls as lots of pilots forget to change freq after changing from one tower to another especially student pilots and some xperienced ones too
would you send out sar to a pilot who has a stuck ptt or who keeps sending a carrier but no speech or you cant hear him properley because he is on the ground asking for infomation using the wrong freq.
i agree that a standard com freq like in the usa may be a better way for all of us to contact each other but thats not the caa way
we have uhf for mil vhf for civvy, maybe the reason you listen in to 121.5 is that you use uhf for your standard coms and you have spare vhf not being used
there is no legal requirement in uncontrolled airpace to have a com
quote
It is self protection and mutual support but it seems that is not what the aviation community wants because they baulk at having to spend a few quid on a decent/second radio.
a second radio for a boat is a few hundred pounds a second com installed in a aircraft cost at least £3,000 some times much more
steve
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
In reference to md 600 driver saying, "I would also add that if pilots used there one and only com to switch to 121.5 you would get a lot of mistaken calls.."
Since the world’s search-and-rescue coordinators plan to stop monitoring both 121.5 MHz and 243 MHz on February 1 2009 because of the increase in false calls, why does crab think that pilots on a budget are going to fork out on an expensive receiver, UHF or VHF', that in a 'low level' or geographically unsuitable environment will be as much use as laxative bath salts!
(121.5MHz will remain the aircraft emergency distress frequency and therefore will continue to be used as a homing signal by 406MHz and MOB Beacons for search and rescue aircraft and surface vessels.)
I think Max Contingency covers this thread nicely.
In the meantime, perhaps the CAA could with initial licence issue, include a set of these
for those without the extra radio fit in order to hear crabs whining and know when to stay away!
Since the world’s search-and-rescue coordinators plan to stop monitoring both 121.5 MHz and 243 MHz on February 1 2009 because of the increase in false calls, why does crab think that pilots on a budget are going to fork out on an expensive receiver, UHF or VHF', that in a 'low level' or geographically unsuitable environment will be as much use as laxative bath salts!
(121.5MHz will remain the aircraft emergency distress frequency and therefore will continue to be used as a homing signal by 406MHz and MOB Beacons for search and rescue aircraft and surface vessels.)
I think Max Contingency covers this thread nicely.
In the meantime, perhaps the CAA could with initial licence issue, include a set of these
for those without the extra radio fit in order to hear crabs whining and know when to stay away!
Thread Starter
Max con - but if no-one is listening on 121.5 in class G airspace wihout an ATC service, how will they know that a TRA has been setup?
MD600 - if you listen to 121.5 you will hear airline crews inadvertantly transmitting on it all the time but we don't launch for them so why should we for a stuck PTT. If you call for help on 121.5 in an EMERGENCY you hope someone is listening - if everyone monitored 121.5 then you would have a greatly increased chance of being heard.
Since most aircraft cost a lot more than a boat and an engine failure or other malfunction is usually more serious in an aircraft than a boat, the extra cost of the radio is probably worth it - unless you subscribe to the big sky/it'll never happen to me theory. No-one goes out with the intention of having a RTA but they still occur every day.
SS - you are not quite correct - the SARSAT/COSPAS satellite system will stop monitoring 243 and 121.5 because of many false alarms (beacon hits) and the fact that 406 beacons are becoming more prevalent and are a. registered and b. able to send a GPS position as part of the distress message. 121.5 will still be the VHF emergency freq should anyone be bothered to use it and most 406 beacons will have a 121.5 capability built in.
If all aircraft had 121.5 monitoring then the laxative bath salts would be much more likely to produce results even in the low level or geographically unsuitable environments.
Maybe ATC should stop monitoring 121.5 since it clearly is of no use.
MD600 - if you listen to 121.5 you will hear airline crews inadvertantly transmitting on it all the time but we don't launch for them so why should we for a stuck PTT. If you call for help on 121.5 in an EMERGENCY you hope someone is listening - if everyone monitored 121.5 then you would have a greatly increased chance of being heard.
Since most aircraft cost a lot more than a boat and an engine failure or other malfunction is usually more serious in an aircraft than a boat, the extra cost of the radio is probably worth it - unless you subscribe to the big sky/it'll never happen to me theory. No-one goes out with the intention of having a RTA but they still occur every day.
SS - you are not quite correct - the SARSAT/COSPAS satellite system will stop monitoring 243 and 121.5 because of many false alarms (beacon hits) and the fact that 406 beacons are becoming more prevalent and are a. registered and b. able to send a GPS position as part of the distress message. 121.5 will still be the VHF emergency freq should anyone be bothered to use it and most 406 beacons will have a 121.5 capability built in.
If all aircraft had 121.5 monitoring then the laxative bath salts would be much more likely to produce results even in the low level or geographically unsuitable environments.
Maybe ATC should stop monitoring 121.5 since it clearly is of no use.
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I went on a tour at London Centre D&D at West Drayton a couple of weeks back, and they have quite comprehensive monitoring and triangulation facilities for 121.5 across the whole country. They also have landlines to all the major ATC units so if they need to warn off GA traffic from a specific area, they can do so with ease.
I've done several 'practice PANs' over the years which show how effective they are, although I had to laugh on one occasion, where amidst the sound of tumbling coffee cups I was directed to leavesden (in a fixed wing) about five years after it had shut !
I'm not sure how much added benefit GA monitoring of the frequency would provide.
I've done several 'practice PANs' over the years which show how effective they are, although I had to laugh on one occasion, where amidst the sound of tumbling coffee cups I was directed to leavesden (in a fixed wing) about five years after it had shut !
I'm not sure how much added benefit GA monitoring of the frequency would provide.
Thread Starter
So we keep coming back to square 1 - if you are not in reciept of an ATC service due to altitude/location and not listening on 121.5 then you can't know what is happening if D&D do try to set up a TRA or broadcast securite messages.
If one is so low as to not be able to receive VHF line of sight transmissions from ATC....what good is monitoring 121.5 going to do you......if you are blanked by terrain and miss the call....you have missed the call.
Accept it Crab....it ain't a perfect world out here.
Clear up a misconception I might have. You said the broken ankle call that started all this was not a flight that required special SAR procedures and that a HEMS aircraft could have done the mission....is that correct?
If so...why did not your SAR coordinator turn down that request and refer it to either the Police or HEMS outfit nearest the scene and thus retain a SAR asset for possible calls that would require SAR capability?
Accept it Crab....it ain't a perfect world out here.
Clear up a misconception I might have. You said the broken ankle call that started all this was not a flight that required special SAR procedures and that a HEMS aircraft could have done the mission....is that correct?
If so...why did not your SAR coordinator turn down that request and refer it to either the Police or HEMS outfit nearest the scene and thus retain a SAR asset for possible calls that would require SAR capability?
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Hey you guys - stop being so hard on Crab. Don't turn this into military bashing.
Firstly, ANY Comm can receive 121.5. If yours can't, take it back for a refund. Whether you decide to listen to it is another matter. I myself do so as a matter of course. I have always taught the less experienced pilots that I have flown with (assumming there are 2 comms) to listen to 121.5 and just use the other radio for all transmissions. If things get busy then ditch the 121.5 and tune to whatever you like but go back to 121.5 when you no longer need the second comm.
I have actually monitored two EPIRBs of people in distress because I was in the area (and subsequently rescued them).
Don't understand the need for a TDA though. Go in, get 'em and then get out.
BTW, I am civilian pilot.
Firstly, ANY Comm can receive 121.5. If yours can't, take it back for a refund. Whether you decide to listen to it is another matter. I myself do so as a matter of course. I have always taught the less experienced pilots that I have flown with (assumming there are 2 comms) to listen to 121.5 and just use the other radio for all transmissions. If things get busy then ditch the 121.5 and tune to whatever you like but go back to 121.5 when you no longer need the second comm.
I have actually monitored two EPIRBs of people in distress because I was in the area (and subsequently rescued them).
Don't understand the need for a TDA though. Go in, get 'em and then get out.
BTW, I am civilian pilot.
Crab: remind me again, why did you request a TDA?
99% of all GA would, given the choice, talk to a local airfield / ATC. They do this from a professional perspective [ClassG I'm talking about].
Those who can't, don't, because of the lie of the land. If that was the case, then 121x5 would be useless too wouldn't it? As mentioned above.
How long have you got before you 'come out'
99% of all GA would, given the choice, talk to a local airfield / ATC. They do this from a professional perspective [ClassG I'm talking about].
Those who can't, don't, because of the lie of the land. If that was the case, then 121x5 would be useless too wouldn't it? As mentioned above.
How long have you got before you 'come out'
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Hey Crab, make up your mind, TDAs or TRAs. The bottom line is that short term TDAs do not work because VHF by its very nature is unsuitable for comms in remote hilly regions. TRAs tend to be more long term with extended plannig eg for Red Arrows displays etc and therefore can be notamed in advanced. As far as I can work out TRAs are only set up for SAROPs for long term searches.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
crab,
Sorry, I don't understand your reply to my last post.
You said that "If all aircraft had 121.5 monitoring then the laxative bath salts would be much more likely to produce results even in the low level or geographically unsuitable environments."
Does that mean that if all aircraft monitored 121.5 then those in the unsuitable environments would be able to recieve the broadcasts? How does that work?
I wasn't aware of an automatic rebroadcast system in a VHF radios wiggly amp system! I shall have to re-read the operators handbook on that one!
SS
Sorry, I don't understand your reply to my last post.
You said that "If all aircraft had 121.5 monitoring then the laxative bath salts would be much more likely to produce results even in the low level or geographically unsuitable environments."
Does that mean that if all aircraft monitored 121.5 then those in the unsuitable environments would be able to recieve the broadcasts? How does that work?
I wasn't aware of an automatic rebroadcast system in a VHF radios wiggly amp system! I shall have to re-read the operators handbook on that one!
SS
I have flown UK HEMs/Police for 8 years. My spare VHF box is alway set to 121.5, if I'm not using it to call ahead.
I'm biased though; many years ago when I was a new boy, flying along solo in a Gazelle, I heard a Mayday call on 121.5. I waited in anticipation to hear the D+D system wake into action!
Total silence.
I was the only person to hear it!
(Hell! How does that "Mayday Relay" go??!)
Found a light fixed wing with engine failure, landed safely.
(I got a bollocking for saying the word "Mayday" on the Army Tac net!)
I'm biased though; many years ago when I was a new boy, flying along solo in a Gazelle, I heard a Mayday call on 121.5. I waited in anticipation to hear the D+D system wake into action!
Total silence.
I was the only person to hear it!
(Hell! How does that "Mayday Relay" go??!)
Found a light fixed wing with engine failure, landed safely.
(I got a bollocking for saying the word "Mayday" on the Army Tac net!)
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In civvy street over the UK there is no need to listen out on 121.5. No need to even carry a radio in the open FIR. Let’s not complicate things.
If you have a problem then TX on your working frequency. If you have no radio then, hey, you know the risks
As a SAR pilot I have never had to request a TDA/TRA although Kinloss have kindly offered it to me on a few occasions to which I have said no.
A dose of good airmanship by us has always sufficed and so far, good airmanship has always been shown by those around me.
I dislike it when some people in the emergency services overreact to an incident and I do not intend to join in.
A point worth mentioning is, as far as I know, that Danger areas, temporary or otherwise cannot stop civilian aircraft from entering unless that particular area is protected by a local bylaw (e.g. Salisbury Plain).
Dare I say it; an emergency caused one party does not necessarily mean an emergency on everybody else’s part.
Dare I say it (2), I get the feeling that there are one or two on this forum that get a little carried away with their own self importance and need to be taken out now and again and walked around in the real world.
If you have a problem then TX on your working frequency. If you have no radio then, hey, you know the risks
As a SAR pilot I have never had to request a TDA/TRA although Kinloss have kindly offered it to me on a few occasions to which I have said no.
A dose of good airmanship by us has always sufficed and so far, good airmanship has always been shown by those around me.
I dislike it when some people in the emergency services overreact to an incident and I do not intend to join in.
A point worth mentioning is, as far as I know, that Danger areas, temporary or otherwise cannot stop civilian aircraft from entering unless that particular area is protected by a local bylaw (e.g. Salisbury Plain).
Dare I say it; an emergency caused one party does not necessarily mean an emergency on everybody else’s part.
Dare I say it (2), I get the feeling that there are one or two on this forum that get a little carried away with their own self importance and need to be taken out now and again and walked around in the real world.
Crab
As you've probably gathered by now you are somewhat spoilt belonging as you do to Auntie Betty's Flying Club - most other flying clubs and private individuals are not so lucky or well equipped.
As you've probably gathered by now you are somewhat spoilt belonging as you do to Auntie Betty's Flying Club - most other flying clubs and private individuals are not so lucky or well equipped.
Gentlemen please
Gentlemen please!
Stand back and take a long look at yourselves.
Crab is only making a comment ,
Crab may have some points
You may have some points
This is not a criminal court for heaven sake.
This forum is getting to the stage where every posting is scrutinised to the n'th degree and more, by every so called expert , from every country in the world!!!
we all have our opinions, rightly or wrongly
EASE UP ITS ONLY A RUMOUR!!!
Stand back and take a long look at yourselves.
Crab is only making a comment ,
Crab may have some points
You may have some points
This is not a criminal court for heaven sake.
This forum is getting to the stage where every posting is scrutinised to the n'th degree and more, by every so called expert , from every country in the world!!!
we all have our opinions, rightly or wrongly
EASE UP ITS ONLY A RUMOUR!!!
Thread Starter
As I have said before, I did not request a TDA it was set up as a matter of course by ARCC.
The bloke with a broken ankle was being carried down the Pyg track in cloud by MRT and needed winching - hence not a HEMS 'mickey mouse' job.
Due to the weather I elected to try and warn the other helicopters in the area of our approach on 121.5 since we did not have their company frequency.
I was not being precious and suggesting a TDA must be established for every job but since they are available and at least keep FJ away from us then I will continue to use them - every bit of protection helps. I heard the TDA announced on 121.5 at 2000' in the LLanberis pass so anyone else monitoring 121.5 would probably have heard it as well.
A TRA makes it an offence to fly within it unless permission is given by the Emergency Controlling Authority who sets it up - these are reserved for major emergency situations - a TDA is not mandatory for civil aircraft but is used to alert traffic to SAROPs.
SS- if you are flying in Snowdonia and have a problem and put out a mayday on 121.5 because you are in class G airspace without an ATC service then unless you are above 2-3000' the only people who will hear you are other aircraft in the area monitoring 121.5 - oh dear nobody wants to do that so you are stuffed until overdue action is taken. Witness Bertie Thrusters tale - but then he is ex-mil and not driven totally by money considerations.
You only get as much flight safety as you are willing to pay for and if you don't want it then fine, crack on and hope that you are never in the situation where you call for help and no-one hears.
Speechless Two - strangely enough I am quite capable of seeing other peoples point of view - sad that so many others are blinkered by the balance sheet and can't see mine. I would like to know how the ex-mil guys attitude compromised flight safety - did you really mean 'upset the customer' or 'affected profitability'?
The bloke with a broken ankle was being carried down the Pyg track in cloud by MRT and needed winching - hence not a HEMS 'mickey mouse' job.
Due to the weather I elected to try and warn the other helicopters in the area of our approach on 121.5 since we did not have their company frequency.
I was not being precious and suggesting a TDA must be established for every job but since they are available and at least keep FJ away from us then I will continue to use them - every bit of protection helps. I heard the TDA announced on 121.5 at 2000' in the LLanberis pass so anyone else monitoring 121.5 would probably have heard it as well.
A TRA makes it an offence to fly within it unless permission is given by the Emergency Controlling Authority who sets it up - these are reserved for major emergency situations - a TDA is not mandatory for civil aircraft but is used to alert traffic to SAROPs.
SS- if you are flying in Snowdonia and have a problem and put out a mayday on 121.5 because you are in class G airspace without an ATC service then unless you are above 2-3000' the only people who will hear you are other aircraft in the area monitoring 121.5 - oh dear nobody wants to do that so you are stuffed until overdue action is taken. Witness Bertie Thrusters tale - but then he is ex-mil and not driven totally by money considerations.
You only get as much flight safety as you are willing to pay for and if you don't want it then fine, crack on and hope that you are never in the situation where you call for help and no-one hears.
Speechless Two - strangely enough I am quite capable of seeing other peoples point of view - sad that so many others are blinkered by the balance sheet and can't see mine. I would like to know how the ex-mil guys attitude compromised flight safety - did you really mean 'upset the customer' or 'affected profitability'?