Rotorway Corner
Joined: Jul 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 508
Likes: 31
From: UK
VFR,
Mine's been flying for about 15 months now. Done almost 100 hours in her.
The CAA were, on the whole, very helpful. Yes they were particularly pedantic about certain issues, but if you consider they've got yours and others safety at heart, it's no problem. I did as they requested, didn't enter petty arguments and didn't take anything they said personally. Also had some excellent assistance from Jonathan and David Bull at Southern Helicopters who despite not having sold me a kit were prepared to help as much as possible and guided me carefully through the beaurocratic minefield.
J
Mine's been flying for about 15 months now. Done almost 100 hours in her.
The CAA were, on the whole, very helpful. Yes they were particularly pedantic about certain issues, but if you consider they've got yours and others safety at heart, it's no problem. I did as they requested, didn't enter petty arguments and didn't take anything they said personally. Also had some excellent assistance from Jonathan and David Bull at Southern Helicopters who despite not having sold me a kit were prepared to help as much as possible and guided me carefully through the beaurocratic minefield.
J
Joined: Jul 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 508
Likes: 31
From: UK
It's looking like there will be up to 7 Rotorways there!
G-BNZO, G-CHTG, G-FLIT, B-BZOM, G-RAWS, G-CBWU and a guest Finnish one. If they all turn up, it'll be some kind of record for UK I think.
J
G-BNZO, G-CHTG, G-FLIT, B-BZOM, G-RAWS, G-CBWU and a guest Finnish one. If they all turn up, it'll be some kind of record for UK I think.
J
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 1
From: UK
Lucky escape for Rotorway pilot
Worldlink News Oregon
Helicopter crashes: Pilot escapes as copter burns in Coos Bay cemetery
MILLINGTON - Employees of Sunset Memorial Park heard a terrible noise coming from the sky Thursday.
Luckily, pilot Mike Garner knew what to do when his helicopter struggled to the ground from 1,000 feet and crashed into the cemetery, where it immediately burst into flames and was reduced to ashes and a gnarled metal frame. Using his helmet, Garner broke out the side window immediately after impact and walked away from the scene with only minor cuts and burns.
The crash was caused by a mechanical failure in the Rotorway 162-F chopper that Garner built himself, he said.
"The RPM meter was floating up and down," Garner said. "At 60 mph, I turned, exactly as I was trained, into the wind and pulled a full collective. I did that and hoped to hit a soft spot."
Sunset maintenance worker John Kaiser was first to contact the pilot. "I thought I was going to pull out a bloody body," Kaiser said. "He didn't get hurt too bad, considering, and I'm sure glad he's alive."
Garner concurred. "He asked me if I was hurt and I said 'No, now let's get away from this thing,'" Garner said.
Chemical smoke rose among the headstones after the Millington Fire District put out the small blaze in under one minute shortly after 12:30 p.m., Fire Chief Drew Solomon said.
The retired commercial pilot said he took off from Norway at a field informally known as "Crazy Dave's" and landed at North Bend Municipal Airport so he could have lunch with his friend, Jim Paterson. The crash occurred as Garner was making his way back to the valley.
He landed mere feet from the grave site of his father-in-law, Jim McKinley.
"I thought to myself, well, my father-in-law is buried over there, I don't want to hit him," Garner said.
Garner ultimately made a relatively soft landing, he said, and no gravestones were damaged.
"I usually fly at 500 feet, but I'm glad I wasn't. That wouldn't give me enough time," he said.
Garner also was involved in a similar crash in a gyro helicopter over Bandon in the 1990s.
"This is the second one," he said, adding he doesn't fear death. "All the co-pilots used to tell me I'd used up all my luck."
He added: "I've got 20,000 flying hours, but only 115 in helicopters."
Garner said he tried to maneuver to the other side of Isthmus Slough but came up short and picked the flattest spot in the cemetery. "I was surprised I was OK," Garner said, adding the helicopter's fuel tank is directly behind the pilot seat.
He attributes his being alive to a helmet that his wife, Margaret, gave him for Christmas two years ago.
"She made me promise to always wear it," Garner said.
He held that and a partially melted nylon jacket for witnesses to see.
Federal Aviation Administra-tion officials from Portland investigated the crash Thursday. According to Mike O'Connor, regional duty officer for the FAA office in Renton, Wash., investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board have not determined a cause of the crash and the information could take months to be determined.
Along with Millington firefighters, personnel from the North Bend Fire Department and Coos County Sheriff's Office deputies also responded to the scene.
As he cleaned his wounds in the memorial park offices, Garner said he would haul away the destroyed craft himself.
Asked if he owns other helicopters, he responded quickly.
"I wish."
MILLINGTON - Employees of Sunset Memorial Park heard a terrible noise coming from the sky Thursday.
Luckily, pilot Mike Garner knew what to do when his helicopter struggled to the ground from 1,000 feet and crashed into the cemetery, where it immediately burst into flames and was reduced to ashes and a gnarled metal frame. Using his helmet, Garner broke out the side window immediately after impact and walked away from the scene with only minor cuts and burns.
The crash was caused by a mechanical failure in the Rotorway 162-F chopper that Garner built himself, he said.
"The RPM meter was floating up and down," Garner said. "At 60 mph, I turned, exactly as I was trained, into the wind and pulled a full collective. I did that and hoped to hit a soft spot."
Sunset maintenance worker John Kaiser was first to contact the pilot. "I thought I was going to pull out a bloody body," Kaiser said. "He didn't get hurt too bad, considering, and I'm sure glad he's alive."
Garner concurred. "He asked me if I was hurt and I said 'No, now let's get away from this thing,'" Garner said.
Chemical smoke rose among the headstones after the Millington Fire District put out the small blaze in under one minute shortly after 12:30 p.m., Fire Chief Drew Solomon said.
The retired commercial pilot said he took off from Norway at a field informally known as "Crazy Dave's" and landed at North Bend Municipal Airport so he could have lunch with his friend, Jim Paterson. The crash occurred as Garner was making his way back to the valley.
He landed mere feet from the grave site of his father-in-law, Jim McKinley.
"I thought to myself, well, my father-in-law is buried over there, I don't want to hit him," Garner said.
Garner ultimately made a relatively soft landing, he said, and no gravestones were damaged.
"I usually fly at 500 feet, but I'm glad I wasn't. That wouldn't give me enough time," he said.
Garner also was involved in a similar crash in a gyro helicopter over Bandon in the 1990s.
"This is the second one," he said, adding he doesn't fear death. "All the co-pilots used to tell me I'd used up all my luck."
He added: "I've got 20,000 flying hours, but only 115 in helicopters."
Garner said he tried to maneuver to the other side of Isthmus Slough but came up short and picked the flattest spot in the cemetery. "I was surprised I was OK," Garner said, adding the helicopter's fuel tank is directly behind the pilot seat.
He attributes his being alive to a helmet that his wife, Margaret, gave him for Christmas two years ago.
"She made me promise to always wear it," Garner said.
He held that and a partially melted nylon jacket for witnesses to see.
Federal Aviation Administra-tion officials from Portland investigated the crash Thursday. According to Mike O'Connor, regional duty officer for the FAA office in Renton, Wash., investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board have not determined a cause of the crash and the information could take months to be determined.
Along with Millington firefighters, personnel from the North Bend Fire Department and Coos County Sheriff's Office deputies also responded to the scene.
As he cleaned his wounds in the memorial park offices, Garner said he would haul away the destroyed craft himself.
Asked if he owns other helicopters, he responded quickly.
"I wish."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: UK
My god. I'm constantly amazed at the state of a lot of the crash pictures I see to learn that the occupants not only survived, but suffered little or no injury. Seeing cars in similar states, al too often the results are truly tragic by comparison.
Si
Si
PPRuNe Enigma
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Not much left is there ? - I guess probably most of it burned out after he'd got out.
not quite how we train 'em around here !!!
. . .pulled a full collective. . . and hoped to hit a soft spot
not quite how we train 'em around here !!!
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
"He attributes his being alive to a helmet that his wife, Margaret, gave him for Christmas two years ago.
"She made me promise to always wear it," Garner said.
He held that and a partially melted nylon jacket for witnesses to see."
Great idea to wear a helmet (wish my present employer would let us wear them - I feel vulnerable without my old military style helmet).
However, the nylon "flight" jackets widely on sale are a really dangerous flight safety hazard and shouldn't be used in a helicopter or light aircraft. On contact with flame or high heat, the material tightens and melts into the skin and can cause very severe burns, far worse than would occur with other materials.
Anyone with one of these jackets should cut it in half and chuck it in the nearest skip! Buy a Nomex or leather jacket and wear an insulating layer of cotton, or preferably two, under it.
"She made me promise to always wear it," Garner said.
He held that and a partially melted nylon jacket for witnesses to see."
Great idea to wear a helmet (wish my present employer would let us wear them - I feel vulnerable without my old military style helmet).
However, the nylon "flight" jackets widely on sale are a really dangerous flight safety hazard and shouldn't be used in a helicopter or light aircraft. On contact with flame or high heat, the material tightens and melts into the skin and can cause very severe burns, far worse than would occur with other materials.
Anyone with one of these jackets should cut it in half and chuck it in the nearest skip! Buy a Nomex or leather jacket and wear an insulating layer of cotton, or preferably two, under it.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
From: Port Townsend,WA. USA
"Immediately burst into flames"
Good advice, nomex or leather jacket.
The Rotorway has plastic fuel tanks in close proximity to the exhaust pipes. The pipes glow red hot one owner told me. And the chain case leaks oil on to the hot exhaust as well. The case has a sort of top cover I think, but is not really very well sealed, so oil leaks out in a roll over I would presume.
Good advice, nomex or leather jacket.
The Rotorway has plastic fuel tanks in close proximity to the exhaust pipes. The pipes glow red hot one owner told me. And the chain case leaks oil on to the hot exhaust as well. The case has a sort of top cover I think, but is not really very well sealed, so oil leaks out in a roll over I would presume.
Joined: Jul 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 508
Likes: 31
From: UK
Slow rotor,
You are right about the plastic tanks and relatively close proximity to the exhaust pipes however, I don't think the design is as flawed as you insinuate and your 'presumptions' are a shade inaccurate.
The tanks are constructed from a very strong impact-resistant plastic and are significantly stronger than alloy fuel tanks found in many GA helicopters. They are also covered in a heat- shield fabric in this area of the tank with a further alloy heat shield between the tank and the exhaust.
Regarding the chain oil leakage; yes, it is a factor in a poorly constructed or maintained helicopter. The worst I've seen are a few drips appearing around the main mast aperture which in older machines is unsealed. A wipe with a rag between flights is all the rectification required. The latest aircraft have a main mast seal now which illiminates this source of leakage. Further; during a rollover, any oil that might leak from the oil bath would no longer be above the hot areas and 'should' drip harmlessly away.
This link shows a picture of an Exec under construction and shows the fuel tanks/exhaust quite clearly. http://www.rotorwaybuilders.net/ucos..._shield2_s.jpg
Some will say that there's obviously a fire risk because this Exec, and a few others, have caught fire after crashing - and they'd be right. But then all helicopters are susceptible to the same fate if the circumstances are right; see the recent thread on the Northumberland incident; and this one stayed upright!
J
You are right about the plastic tanks and relatively close proximity to the exhaust pipes however, I don't think the design is as flawed as you insinuate and your 'presumptions' are a shade inaccurate.
The tanks are constructed from a very strong impact-resistant plastic and are significantly stronger than alloy fuel tanks found in many GA helicopters. They are also covered in a heat- shield fabric in this area of the tank with a further alloy heat shield between the tank and the exhaust.
Regarding the chain oil leakage; yes, it is a factor in a poorly constructed or maintained helicopter. The worst I've seen are a few drips appearing around the main mast aperture which in older machines is unsealed. A wipe with a rag between flights is all the rectification required. The latest aircraft have a main mast seal now which illiminates this source of leakage. Further; during a rollover, any oil that might leak from the oil bath would no longer be above the hot areas and 'should' drip harmlessly away.
This link shows a picture of an Exec under construction and shows the fuel tanks/exhaust quite clearly. http://www.rotorwaybuilders.net/ucos..._shield2_s.jpg
Some will say that there's obviously a fire risk because this Exec, and a few others, have caught fire after crashing - and they'd be right. But then all helicopters are susceptible to the same fate if the circumstances are right; see the recent thread on the Northumberland incident; and this one stayed upright!
J
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
From: Port Townsend,WA. USA
Jellycopter,
I had inspected a rotorway exec kit that was for sale. Before buying, I called the Rotorway company and they advised against the purchase of the older Exec model for a number of reasons. The current 162F is probably better in several areas.
Plastic tanks are not as crashworthy in my opinion. A heat wrapped shield prevents fire in normal use but will not help much when the fuel leaks into the shield in a crash.
I think the Rotorway has never had a loss of rotor accident. Thats a good thing and more than I can say for several other designs.
I had inspected a rotorway exec kit that was for sale. Before buying, I called the Rotorway company and they advised against the purchase of the older Exec model for a number of reasons. The current 162F is probably better in several areas.
Plastic tanks are not as crashworthy in my opinion. A heat wrapped shield prevents fire in normal use but will not help much when the fuel leaks into the shield in a crash.
I think the Rotorway has never had a loss of rotor accident. Thats a good thing and more than I can say for several other designs.
Joined: Jul 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 508
Likes: 31
From: UK
Floppy/Russell,
No; I've already built one! Been flying them for about 4 years now and have had my own in the sky for 2 years.
A great little toy if you're trained properly and fly them well. A real little bugger if you don't!
A much maligned heli which I'm slowly trying to put right.
J
No; I've already built one! Been flying them for about 4 years now and have had my own in the sky for 2 years.
A great little toy if you're trained properly and fly them well. A real little bugger if you don't!
A much maligned heli which I'm slowly trying to put right.
J