The worst job possible?
The worst job possible?
Advert in this week's Helidata (UK classified publication):
Pilot Required
We have been instructed by a wealthy individual to source a personal pilot for his B206 Jetranger. This is an immediate full time position with an excellent remumeration package, including accomodation. The successful candidate will also be expected to carry out other duties, including driving and acting as "Ambassador" when required. In the first instance please call XXXXX at XXXXX who will carry out initial interviews.
Now, I've got my own ideas about this job and think that it could possibly be one of the worst flying jobs around. Are they looking for a pilot or a doormat?
Thoughts/comments anyone?
B73
Pilot Required
We have been instructed by a wealthy individual to source a personal pilot for his B206 Jetranger. This is an immediate full time position with an excellent remumeration package, including accomodation. The successful candidate will also be expected to carry out other duties, including driving and acting as "Ambassador" when required. In the first instance please call XXXXX at XXXXX who will carry out initial interviews.
Now, I've got my own ideas about this job and think that it could possibly be one of the worst flying jobs around. Are they looking for a pilot or a doormat?
Thoughts/comments anyone?
B73
Last edited by Bravo73; 11th May 2005 at 12:12.
Well, I guess "for his B206 Jetranger" might be bit of a giveaway! 
And other duties probably involve carrying bags, answering phones, sweeping floors, serving breakfast etc etc.
But I'd be more worried about being stuck in a field at the wrong end of the country, in the middle of winter, in worsening weather with night approaching and trying to get the 'wealthy individual' to understand that it really isn't safe to fly home, although he might have been on numerous airliners in similar conditions....
And other duties probably involve carrying bags, answering phones, sweeping floors, serving breakfast etc etc.
But I'd be more worried about being stuck in a field at the wrong end of the country, in the middle of winter, in worsening weather with night approaching and trying to get the 'wealthy individual' to understand that it really isn't safe to fly home, although he might have been on numerous airliners in similar conditions....
But hey it's a modern world - who are we to discriminate!
i'm a little more concerned about the ad in the bottom left hand corner looking for a freelance instructor..
preferably also cpl(h)??? wouldn't that kind of be mandatory??
preferably also cpl(h)??? wouldn't that kind of be mandatory??
Hovering AND talking
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preferably also cpl(h)??? wouldn't that kind of be mandatory??
In the days of yore, one could be an instructor on a PPL(H) (UK CAA licence - pre JAA). These instructors still have grandfather rights to continue instructing on their PPL. However, I believe that this qualification is FI (R) i.e. restricted.
Cheers
Whirlygig
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i'm a little more concerned about the ad in the bottom left hand corner looking for a freelance instructor..
especially as they offer the training !
NB can't be that weathy John, if he's only got a 206...
h-r - NB can't be that weathy John, if he's only got a 206... My thoughts exactly! 
Brassed Off - fair enough to see it from the other side, I guess. But what you say throws up a whole 'nother bag of worms. I am very aware of the legality of the situation and the fact that it is a 'private' rather than 'commercial' operation but should a PPL really be doing this job? And getting paid for it? ie getting paid to fly? (whatever the pay slip might say about being a Personal Slave, ooops, I mean Assistant...)
After four years I had over 1300hrs Is that all? In any other flying job, you'd be looking at nearer 2000-2500hrs. I imagine for the same period in Aberdeen, you would've flown nearly 3200hrs. That's a lot of spare time to be a skivvy.
Surely it is worth doing a few dirty jobs to gain those valuable turbine hours. Really? But where do you draw the line? Presuming that you're still on your PPL and he wants to take a few of his mates and business associates (ie 20) with him to Aintree. So you ferry them all in from a nearby hotel. Is that right? And, yes, I know that at best it's a 'grey area' legally but ethically? (Now I'm not saying for a second that this actually happened but I'm sure you know where I'm coming from...)
Paid to fly is the best way to fly even if you do have to take the flak. Paid to fly? On a PPL? Are you really saying that PPLs should go for this job?
in all weather, day and night. In a VFR Jetranger???? With 'only' a PPL? And probably very low time to boot? Now, once again, I am aware of the legality of the situation but are you saying that you'd recommend this job to a friend or family member? I know that I wouldn't.
I don't mean to come across as antigonistic so please don't take it the wrong way but I really feel that these things can't be left un-said (and it's all of course IMHO).
Regards,
B73
PS Oh, TheFlyingSquirrel, I didn't link directly to the ad (or mention any contact details) because I only just wanted to bring it up as a 'discussion point'. I didn't really actually want the word to spread about this job. Are you sure that you do?
Brassed Off - fair enough to see it from the other side, I guess. But what you say throws up a whole 'nother bag of worms. I am very aware of the legality of the situation and the fact that it is a 'private' rather than 'commercial' operation but should a PPL really be doing this job? And getting paid for it? ie getting paid to fly? (whatever the pay slip might say about being a Personal Slave, ooops, I mean Assistant...)
After four years I had over 1300hrs Is that all? In any other flying job, you'd be looking at nearer 2000-2500hrs. I imagine for the same period in Aberdeen, you would've flown nearly 3200hrs. That's a lot of spare time to be a skivvy.
Surely it is worth doing a few dirty jobs to gain those valuable turbine hours. Really? But where do you draw the line? Presuming that you're still on your PPL and he wants to take a few of his mates and business associates (ie 20) with him to Aintree. So you ferry them all in from a nearby hotel. Is that right? And, yes, I know that at best it's a 'grey area' legally but ethically? (Now I'm not saying for a second that this actually happened but I'm sure you know where I'm coming from...)
Paid to fly is the best way to fly even if you do have to take the flak. Paid to fly? On a PPL? Are you really saying that PPLs should go for this job?
in all weather, day and night. In a VFR Jetranger???? With 'only' a PPL? And probably very low time to boot? Now, once again, I am aware of the legality of the situation but are you saying that you'd recommend this job to a friend or family member? I know that I wouldn't.
I don't mean to come across as antigonistic so please don't take it the wrong way but I really feel that these things can't be left un-said (and it's all of course IMHO).
Regards,
B73
PS Oh, TheFlyingSquirrel, I didn't link directly to the ad (or mention any contact details) because I only just wanted to bring it up as a 'discussion point'. I didn't really actually want the word to spread about this job. Are you sure that you do?
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But with so many new-qualified CPLs wanting to get their first break in order to get the experience and hours, this job could be ideal.
Although no hours requirements are mentioned, I would suspect that it would be low-hour candidates applying.
In this day, one can't be too choosy - surely it's better than the new-qual CPL who offers to work for nothing?
B73, you mentioned the origin of the advert so it's not beyond the wit of man to dig it out. TFS hasn't "spread the word"; just saved me 10 minutes!
Cheers
Whirlygig
Although no hours requirements are mentioned, I would suspect that it would be low-hour candidates applying.
In this day, one can't be too choosy - surely it's better than the new-qual CPL who offers to work for nothing?
B73, you mentioned the origin of the advert so it's not beyond the wit of man to dig it out. TFS hasn't "spread the word"; just saved me 10 minutes!
Cheers
Whirlygig
B73, you mentioned the origin of the advert so it's not beyond the wit of man to dig it out. Indeed I did. And it was because I believe that you should always refer to your sources (so that people know that you're not telling porkies). Finding the actual ad probably should've taken closer to 30 sec than 10 minutes, I hope.
surely it's better than the new-qual CPL who offers to work for nothing? What, a PPL flying for renumeration? It amounts to about the same thing in my book. Neither situation is doing the rest of us any favours really. And after what Brassed Off said, I'm beginning to think that CPLs might even price themselves out of this job. When I made my initial post, I had never even considered that a PPL might go for it. Presuming that the applicant has got a debt to service (£15k for the PPL, £50k for the CPL), who's going to be willing to take the lowest wages???
surely it's better than the new-qual CPL who offers to work for nothing? What, a PPL flying for renumeration? It amounts to about the same thing in my book. Neither situation is doing the rest of us any favours really. And after what Brassed Off said, I'm beginning to think that CPLs might even price themselves out of this job. When I made my initial post, I had never even considered that a PPL might go for it. Presuming that the applicant has got a debt to service (£15k for the PPL, £50k for the CPL), who's going to be willing to take the lowest wages???
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taken closer to 30 sec than 10 minutes, I hope
surely it's better than the new-qual CPL who offers to work for nothing? What, a PPL flying for renumeration
I can understand that you see these sorts of roles as being detrimental to the image and standing of professional pilots but... we all have to start somewhere and in this economic climate, that "somewhere" is right at the bottom.
Cheers
Whirlygig
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Let's hope the ' duties ' are disimilar to the ones expected of Prince Charles' personal staff - massage and a little " suprise " at the end ! Now that's not worth a 1000 hours turbine is it? ( Maybe doesn't apply to the Whirlys of this world !)
TFS
(Bravo - I think you'd already let the cat bolt, to use a variation on a well known idiom )
TFS
(Bravo - I think you'd already let the cat bolt, to use a variation on a well known idiom )
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Why do I get the feeling that this thread was started to deter any prospective applicants?
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What made me laugh was the "consultancy" doing the initial interview - "Helicopters R Go". Wouldn't be my first choice of a company name if I wanted people to take me seriously. (Knowing me, I have just put my foot in it and Helicopters R Go is a leading pilot agency!)
But what has a low time CPL(H) got to loose apart from the cost of a mobile phone call? Definitely worth a shot in the dark.
But what has a low time CPL(H) got to loose apart from the cost of a mobile phone call? Definitely worth a shot in the dark.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
But what has a low time CPL(H) got to loose apart from the cost of a mobile phone call? Definitely worth a shot in the dark.
p.s. http://www.helicoptersrgo.co.uk/
Brassed Off - Hmmm, now we don't have to resort to silly (ie how much would it cost if I trained for 1300hrs in a B206...) arguments, do we? You know that it doesn't actually work like that in the real world. A more viable alternative might be the more 'traditional' route of PPL, CPL, FI, Job, 1500hrs. (Or even in your 'good old days', PPL, FI, Job, CPL).
And to address a couple of your other points:
Where is the pilot who is actually going to have vast experience in a 206 in bad weather and at night going to come from. Er, Canada, the US, even over here in humble ol' Blighty. But this probably brings us to the crux of the matter - legality and ethics aside, is this really a job for a low-time girl/guy? I would argue that it's actually a job for a reasonably experienced 206 Pilot who, most importantly, has got the balls to say 'no' when 'no' is needed. As has been discussed many times on this board, a freshly licensed girl/guy (even with a 'mighty' CPL) who really, really needs that 1st job, probably wouldn't have the required experience/will. And put simply, the experienced guy/girl who should really be doing the job wouldn't even give it a second look. And rightly so, IMHO.
But I've also noticed that you've deftly avoided some of the earlier issues that your original post raised. Would you mind answering these questions: Should PPLs be flying for renumeration? In all weather, day and night - in a VFR Jetranger? Would you recommend this job to a friend or family member? Many thanks.
Whirlygig - you see these sorts of roles as being detrimental to the image and standing of professional pilots Well, not really. Any commercial job involves an element of bag carrying and 'yes, sir, no, sir'. The danger with this job is being stuck in a field at the wrong end of the country, in the middle of winter, in worsening weather with night approaching and trying to get the 'wealthy individual' to understand that it really isn't safe to fly home, although he might have been on numerous airliners in similar conditions....
we all have to start somewhere and in this economic climate, that "somewhere" is right at the bottom. Sure is. But you could always just follow the well-worn, 'traditional' path of PPL, CPL, FI, Job. (In another thread, I said that you'd have to be either 'exceptionally lucky or exceptionally well connected' to get a job with just a CPL. I think that this is a case of being exceptionally UNlucky).
TFS - I think you'd already let the cat bolt Well, I personally think that being advertised in a national publication left that particular cattery door open (to continue your idiom).
SilsoeSid - Why do I get the feeling that this thread was started to deter any prospective applicants? Really? Do you think so? Was it me stating "are you saying that you'd recommend this job to a friend or family member? I know that I wouldn't." that was the giveaway? I'm not even sure of what conspiracy theory it is that you're alluding to this time. I'm just surprised that you haven't illustrated your point with an amusing and pithy little image...
Droopystop - But what has a low time CPL(H) got to loose apart from the cost of a mobile phone call? Your self-respect?
Steve76 - The worse job possible? You really must be kidding You're right. Shovelling sh*t must be a worse job. And I'm sure that there's probably someone in this world who has to shovel sh*t by helicopter. But this job is pretty low down the scale on the grand scheme of things.
Gee, don'cha just love PPRuNe? A quick post about something that might come up in any crewroom and suddenly there's talk of conspiracy theories and the like. Slightly more worrying is that it unearthed details of some slightly more risky operations (PPLs flying for renumeration etc). I'm personally not a big fan of the Campaign Against Aviation but I hope that this is one situation/operation that they will be keeping a very close eye on...
And just to cast another light on things - occasionally, yacht-based jobs come up where the pilot has to fly newer, often twin engined a/c around some of the nicer parts of the world (the Med or the Caribbean). During their non-flying time, they might be expected to scrub the occasional deck or two (ie 'other duties'). Now, the general consensus was that these jobs should be avoided yet some on this board are actively encouraging others to go for this particular B206 job. As our American cousins might say, 'Go Figure'!
B73
And to address a couple of your other points:
Where is the pilot who is actually going to have vast experience in a 206 in bad weather and at night going to come from. Er, Canada, the US, even over here in humble ol' Blighty. But this probably brings us to the crux of the matter - legality and ethics aside, is this really a job for a low-time girl/guy? I would argue that it's actually a job for a reasonably experienced 206 Pilot who, most importantly, has got the balls to say 'no' when 'no' is needed. As has been discussed many times on this board, a freshly licensed girl/guy (even with a 'mighty' CPL) who really, really needs that 1st job, probably wouldn't have the required experience/will. And put simply, the experienced guy/girl who should really be doing the job wouldn't even give it a second look. And rightly so, IMHO.
But I've also noticed that you've deftly avoided some of the earlier issues that your original post raised. Would you mind answering these questions: Should PPLs be flying for renumeration? In all weather, day and night - in a VFR Jetranger? Would you recommend this job to a friend or family member? Many thanks.
Whirlygig - you see these sorts of roles as being detrimental to the image and standing of professional pilots Well, not really. Any commercial job involves an element of bag carrying and 'yes, sir, no, sir'. The danger with this job is being stuck in a field at the wrong end of the country, in the middle of winter, in worsening weather with night approaching and trying to get the 'wealthy individual' to understand that it really isn't safe to fly home, although he might have been on numerous airliners in similar conditions....
we all have to start somewhere and in this economic climate, that "somewhere" is right at the bottom. Sure is. But you could always just follow the well-worn, 'traditional' path of PPL, CPL, FI, Job. (In another thread, I said that you'd have to be either 'exceptionally lucky or exceptionally well connected' to get a job with just a CPL. I think that this is a case of being exceptionally UNlucky).
TFS - I think you'd already let the cat bolt Well, I personally think that being advertised in a national publication left that particular cattery door open (to continue your idiom).
SilsoeSid - Why do I get the feeling that this thread was started to deter any prospective applicants? Really? Do you think so? Was it me stating "are you saying that you'd recommend this job to a friend or family member? I know that I wouldn't." that was the giveaway? I'm not even sure of what conspiracy theory it is that you're alluding to this time. I'm just surprised that you haven't illustrated your point with an amusing and pithy little image...
Droopystop - But what has a low time CPL(H) got to loose apart from the cost of a mobile phone call? Your self-respect?
Steve76 - The worse job possible? You really must be kidding You're right. Shovelling sh*t must be a worse job. And I'm sure that there's probably someone in this world who has to shovel sh*t by helicopter. But this job is pretty low down the scale on the grand scheme of things.
Gee, don'cha just love PPRuNe? A quick post about something that might come up in any crewroom and suddenly there's talk of conspiracy theories and the like. Slightly more worrying is that it unearthed details of some slightly more risky operations (PPLs flying for renumeration etc). I'm personally not a big fan of the Campaign Against Aviation but I hope that this is one situation/operation that they will be keeping a very close eye on...
And just to cast another light on things - occasionally, yacht-based jobs come up where the pilot has to fly newer, often twin engined a/c around some of the nicer parts of the world (the Med or the Caribbean). During their non-flying time, they might be expected to scrub the occasional deck or two (ie 'other duties'). Now, the general consensus was that these jobs should be avoided yet some on this board are actively encouraging others to go for this particular B206 job. As our American cousins might say, 'Go Figure'!
B73