BAD companies!!
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BAD companies!!
I need some advice here----
A company out here in the big world is scarying me----
Pilots are getting hired with as little as 2-300 hrs with no hrs in type---when the insurance states 1000pic 200 type.
Same pilots are told by the chief pilot to lie to the boss about their hours--told to lie to the insurance company and also the customers. Even to the point of being fired for telling the customers that the pilots they trust their lives to are FAR short of the experience required to do the job safely.
The chief pilot has "loads" of hours (3000 or so)---about all in type---and considers himself a good pilot---fact is that the way he flies guarantees that he will be in BIG sh*t if something goes wrong--but he is not receptive to any advice or critique.
Instead he is trying to force other pilots to adopt his way of flying by ridiculing such techniques as accelerating thru ETL on t/o--when he prefers doing a towering t/o at max power EVERY time.
(just one example!!)
Pilots are being told to fly without inspections completed, or "look for another job"--and repeatedly being told they are expendable!
From the company itself there is nothing but lies from the higher echelons---as well as changes in pay and whatever benefits they might have--with little or no notice.
I could go on and on about the situation
My point is:
What can and should we as pilots do with something like this? It is very hard for pilots that are looking for hours to dare to speak up against something like this.
I am keeping this very vague to protect the guilty---and also the pilots working there---as they would be fired immediately if this came out.
A company out here in the big world is scarying me----
Pilots are getting hired with as little as 2-300 hrs with no hrs in type---when the insurance states 1000pic 200 type.
Same pilots are told by the chief pilot to lie to the boss about their hours--told to lie to the insurance company and also the customers. Even to the point of being fired for telling the customers that the pilots they trust their lives to are FAR short of the experience required to do the job safely.
The chief pilot has "loads" of hours (3000 or so)---about all in type---and considers himself a good pilot---fact is that the way he flies guarantees that he will be in BIG sh*t if something goes wrong--but he is not receptive to any advice or critique.
Instead he is trying to force other pilots to adopt his way of flying by ridiculing such techniques as accelerating thru ETL on t/o--when he prefers doing a towering t/o at max power EVERY time.
(just one example!!)
Pilots are being told to fly without inspections completed, or "look for another job"--and repeatedly being told they are expendable!
From the company itself there is nothing but lies from the higher echelons---as well as changes in pay and whatever benefits they might have--with little or no notice.
I could go on and on about the situation
My point is:
What can and should we as pilots do with something like this? It is very hard for pilots that are looking for hours to dare to speak up against something like this.
I am keeping this very vague to protect the guilty---and also the pilots working there---as they would be fired immediately if this came out.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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3000 hours doesnt make someone an expert, I regularly fly with guys who have 15000-18000 hours all on helicopters and they still make some decisions that are questionable occasionally.
people are people, if your guy is an idiot I guess he still will be when he gets to 10000 hours.
I would start working on your escape strategy based on what you say
in which country are you located ?
regards
CF
people are people, if your guy is an idiot I guess he still will be when he gets to 10000 hours.
I would start working on your escape strategy based on what you say
in which country are you located ?
regards
CF
Last edited by Camp Freddie; 10th Apr 2005 at 18:27.
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i wouldn't stick around any longer than necessary as guys like that will eventually hang themselves one way or another and if the worst happens you don't want to be around during the sh!t storm.
Be very careful what you sign your name too.....flying with illegal paperwork shall invariably bite you in the hind quarters. Pray to the Good Lord it is only a regulatory issue....if it winds up being in a civil proceeding following an accident that results in an injury or death....heaven ain't going to help you.
There are plenty of places to work where they at least operate legally....may not be good places otherwise...but at least you will be around to collect the pay check.
The other side of the coin is....the FAA or who ever has oversight needs a very thorough briefing upon what is wrong and exactly where to look to document it.....let the chips lay where they fall.
Also recall....all informants get burned. Always.
Ethical crisis here....no easy answer....do what is best for you.
There are plenty of places to work where they at least operate legally....may not be good places otherwise...but at least you will be around to collect the pay check.
The other side of the coin is....the FAA or who ever has oversight needs a very thorough briefing upon what is wrong and exactly where to look to document it.....let the chips lay where they fall.
Also recall....all informants get burned. Always.
Ethical crisis here....no easy answer....do what is best for you.
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Faceless,
My guess would be the middle east. A company that used to have very high standards but is now suffering from an engineering crisis and pilot shortage due to Greed and arrogance.
My guess would be the middle east. A company that used to have very high standards but is now suffering from an engineering crisis and pilot shortage due to Greed and arrogance.
Cor, it ain't just in the ME....could be any number of places!
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as usual - it is always safer under the veil of secrecy. If it the truth post the company. If it ain't get a life! think that if soemone dies because you with held information - can you live with that!!!!
GP....
And to think I have been invited down to just that place....errrr...ahhh..anything you care to say beyond that? Their reputation in the past has been....well...uh....shall we say...not good.
And to think I have been invited down to just that place....errrr...ahhh..anything you care to say beyond that? Their reputation in the past has been....well...uh....shall we say...not good.
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Faceless,
if what you say is the absolute truth, and could be determind by simple investigation, then, you need to be very strong for it is your obligation to say something or to "Drop a Dime", not only would you be ultimately helpng the Helicopter industry and community but you would be possibly allowing some potential victims to carry on seeing their wife and children, instead of being put into a box and buried.
simple, "Put up or Shut up" it as simple as that!
Make the right decision.
My regards
PeterR-B
Vfrpilotpb
if what you say is the absolute truth, and could be determind by simple investigation, then, you need to be very strong for it is your obligation to say something or to "Drop a Dime", not only would you be ultimately helpng the Helicopter industry and community but you would be possibly allowing some potential victims to carry on seeing their wife and children, instead of being put into a box and buried.
simple, "Put up or Shut up" it as simple as that!
Make the right decision.
My regards
PeterR-B
Vfrpilotpb
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Thats all well and good with obligations to notify the authorities and possibly "save someones life"...but it is a bit more complicated than that.
First of all..the company is not in the US or Europe where someone has a clearly defined "authority" to report to...but rather a corrupt system where the company pretty much pays off anyone in a high position....government and local CAA alike...so that is VERY unlikely to lead anywhere.
Second....
As Sasless stated...the informant gets burned...every time. Would you be willing to risk the rest of your life on some ****ty company somewhere. Remember, it is a small world out there in the heli community.
Third
I never said that I work for the company..so this is not about me personally. I don't want to risk other pilots careers and hopes for the future just to "put up or shut up" as have been stated. Although the practises by the company and the leadership is highly questionable..some of the pilots flying there are good guys, fighting the good fight daily to make a difference.
So...it is NOT as simple as that..it never is.
First of all..the company is not in the US or Europe where someone has a clearly defined "authority" to report to...but rather a corrupt system where the company pretty much pays off anyone in a high position....government and local CAA alike...so that is VERY unlikely to lead anywhere.
Second....
As Sasless stated...the informant gets burned...every time. Would you be willing to risk the rest of your life on some ****ty company somewhere. Remember, it is a small world out there in the heli community.
Third
I never said that I work for the company..so this is not about me personally. I don't want to risk other pilots careers and hopes for the future just to "put up or shut up" as have been stated. Although the practises by the company and the leadership is highly questionable..some of the pilots flying there are good guys, fighting the good fight daily to make a difference.
So...it is NOT as simple as that..it never is.
Peter dear boy....
That is easy said...sometimes hard done. I have been at places where the engineering was in fact killing people and no heads got chopped except for a greasy hand that last held the spanner involved. It carried right on....with the heavies living it large until it got absolutely ridiculous. That was in a good company.
Guys have families to raise...dentist bills to pay...school fees that must be paid....sure go be a martyr....when you do stand up and blow the whistle while you wave the Bovine Fecal Matter flag....do not look over your shoulder and expect to see an Amen Chorus. All those guys at the bar the night before that nodded so pious like and mumbled the "Hear, Hear!'s" will be slinking sideways for the door.
That is easy said...sometimes hard done. I have been at places where the engineering was in fact killing people and no heads got chopped except for a greasy hand that last held the spanner involved. It carried right on....with the heavies living it large until it got absolutely ridiculous. That was in a good company.
Guys have families to raise...dentist bills to pay...school fees that must be paid....sure go be a martyr....when you do stand up and blow the whistle while you wave the Bovine Fecal Matter flag....do not look over your shoulder and expect to see an Amen Chorus. All those guys at the bar the night before that nodded so pious like and mumbled the "Hear, Hear!'s" will be slinking sideways for the door.
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I used to work for a company like that in the Caribbean. Absolute joke! Was kinda of a sticky situation as we learned later that the company itself wasnt completely legal, in every way. They were overcharging the govt for fake hours being flown, and we were told to keep our mouths shut about it. To the point of burning and destroying flight logs for the aircraft.
Was told to fly the aircraft coz it was mechanically airworthy yet it had no current. C of A or C of R. When you told them know that it wasnt legal and that you wouldnt fly, the response was get in the air or you are fired, and that came through the chief pilot!! Of course we didnt fly it, and then they said they wouldnt fire us, only coz it would have been a loss of business, until they found other people to take our jobs.
I finally opted to get out of there when it really started getting ****ty and out of hand, by giving the Chief and the owners a written ultimatum about making things more legal and business like, and that I wouldnt work another day until it was all sorted out on paper. With that, they came back with this childish petty behaviour and told me I was fired, that I couldnt quit. I think the Chief didnt like people quiting as it looks bad, so he would fire you first, even though he knew you were quiting! Ridiculous!!
It was all absolutely ridiculous. You would think that your Chief, being a pilot, unlike the owners would be more with you on aircraft legalitites and things, but he would do nothing for you other than tell you that that is the way, and you had better conform. He was consistently full of $hit and I would without doubt question his abilities and skills as to flying as well. He believed that if the chopper ever crashed and legalities werent in order, that nothing would happen to us, that the company would get the blame. I dont know anywhere where the pilot can get away with flying an aircraft without proper paperwork and not f**k up his career. Even when its somewhere else in the world. I explained that we would be the ones to go down with the ****, that the company would blame it all on us in a heartbeat! Foolish man! Thats all I know. Good luck to him if he ever returns to the real world of aviation.
Faceless, good luck with your situation. Not an easy one and I hope you get throught it and get out safely. Having been through crap like that before, I know its tough.
Was told to fly the aircraft coz it was mechanically airworthy yet it had no current. C of A or C of R. When you told them know that it wasnt legal and that you wouldnt fly, the response was get in the air or you are fired, and that came through the chief pilot!! Of course we didnt fly it, and then they said they wouldnt fire us, only coz it would have been a loss of business, until they found other people to take our jobs.
I finally opted to get out of there when it really started getting ****ty and out of hand, by giving the Chief and the owners a written ultimatum about making things more legal and business like, and that I wouldnt work another day until it was all sorted out on paper. With that, they came back with this childish petty behaviour and told me I was fired, that I couldnt quit. I think the Chief didnt like people quiting as it looks bad, so he would fire you first, even though he knew you were quiting! Ridiculous!!
It was all absolutely ridiculous. You would think that your Chief, being a pilot, unlike the owners would be more with you on aircraft legalitites and things, but he would do nothing for you other than tell you that that is the way, and you had better conform. He was consistently full of $hit and I would without doubt question his abilities and skills as to flying as well. He believed that if the chopper ever crashed and legalities werent in order, that nothing would happen to us, that the company would get the blame. I dont know anywhere where the pilot can get away with flying an aircraft without proper paperwork and not f**k up his career. Even when its somewhere else in the world. I explained that we would be the ones to go down with the ****, that the company would blame it all on us in a heartbeat! Foolish man! Thats all I know. Good luck to him if he ever returns to the real world of aviation.
Faceless, good luck with your situation. Not an easy one and I hope you get throught it and get out safely. Having been through crap like that before, I know its tough.
