Africa Ride (video) Any opinions?
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There comes the time in a Pilots life, when flying sound and safe - with or without passengers - will just do nicely. Let the stunts be done by those who get paid for doing them.
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Sadly Crab was being serious - I too remember the Jack stall sortie. Interestingly, having flown the Squirrel, I cannot remember anyone mentioning SERVO TRANSPARENCY before! Come to that I can't find it in the aircrew manual either - oops suspect I should have handed that one in when I left!
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Sorry, forgot to mention the video! Well, one word springs to mind - barking! Having taught mountain flying - lets face it, you can use the techniques on features like these - the guy clearly has 'issues' with his life expectancy.
Any body ever seen the video 'the failed aviator'? Its an american training video where the pilot/Dr talks about what pilots do as they get further in to their careers, the risks that they feel they can take, and the balance between experience and risk taking. Cracking video, when I watched it - it also covers the mid-life crisis saying about the 40 plus pilot with the red sports car [3 of us watching all had red sports cars] - I recognised in myself how stale I had become, I was in the zone where it would have been very easy to start increasing risks to pep up boring sorties. Fortunately, a change IS as good as a rest and I worked through it - stops you short though, when you realise it could so easily be you in this type of video doing antics like this all because you needed a bigger and bigger thrill!
That was then - a long time ago! Now, the thrill is a new delivery of paper clips! 1,2,3,4,5,6,...........
Any body ever seen the video 'the failed aviator'? Its an american training video where the pilot/Dr talks about what pilots do as they get further in to their careers, the risks that they feel they can take, and the balance between experience and risk taking. Cracking video, when I watched it - it also covers the mid-life crisis saying about the 40 plus pilot with the red sports car [3 of us watching all had red sports cars] - I recognised in myself how stale I had become, I was in the zone where it would have been very easy to start increasing risks to pep up boring sorties. Fortunately, a change IS as good as a rest and I worked through it - stops you short though, when you realise it could so easily be you in this type of video doing antics like this all because you needed a bigger and bigger thrill!
That was then - a long time ago! Now, the thrill is a new delivery of paper clips! 1,2,3,4,5,6,...........
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I`m not a chopper driver....but I don`t see any real risky flying in this video.....seems fairly ..."tame " to me......maybe thats cause I`m from Africa and I`ve been in Vultures Retreat......as a pax......mind blowing.....
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Interesting reading all these comments about that video.
Will let you in on a little secret, I have actually been on that flight, and shot it from inside that helo, and from outside from another helo.
The flight was not a one off for some tourists, but a regular thing for visitors to where the helo is based.
Yes the pilot is very very experienced and I know him well and would fly with him again in a heartbeat.
Not being a licenced pilot I will not, and would not comment on the right or wrong of his flying, can only vouch for what I know of the individual.
There are a few people here on the forum who know exactly who he is and know him very well.
Cheers
Ned
Will let you in on a little secret, I have actually been on that flight, and shot it from inside that helo, and from outside from another helo.
The flight was not a one off for some tourists, but a regular thing for visitors to where the helo is based.
Yes the pilot is very very experienced and I know him well and would fly with him again in a heartbeat.
Not being a licenced pilot I will not, and would not comment on the right or wrong of his flying, can only vouch for what I know of the individual.
There are a few people here on the forum who know exactly who he is and know him very well.
Cheers
Ned
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It all boils down to risk management.
All flying is risk management as is just about everything in life. As soon as the blades start turning, there is a risk factor. That factor increases and decreases dependant on the circumstances. It's up to the Pilot to decide whether the risk is appropriate to the task. It's also up to the pilot to make that decision on behalf of his passengers taking into account their best interests rather than their wishes.
As a professional pilot (350 rated) it is my opinion that there were several instances in this video where an engine failure or other serious malfunction including jack-stall would have resulted in the destruction of the aircraft and serious or fatal injury of those on board. We all know that Turbomecca, whilst reliable, are not perfect.
Now... What constitutes the passengers best interests under these circumstances?
We've all done things like that when we're crew only on board, however we have a duty to our passengers to know what is good for them even if they don't and to make a responsible decision with regard to the risks that we expose them to.
It's only a matter of time before someone finds a video like that in smouldering wreckage of such a flight.
BD
All flying is risk management as is just about everything in life. As soon as the blades start turning, there is a risk factor. That factor increases and decreases dependant on the circumstances. It's up to the Pilot to decide whether the risk is appropriate to the task. It's also up to the pilot to make that decision on behalf of his passengers taking into account their best interests rather than their wishes.
As a professional pilot (350 rated) it is my opinion that there were several instances in this video where an engine failure or other serious malfunction including jack-stall would have resulted in the destruction of the aircraft and serious or fatal injury of those on board. We all know that Turbomecca, whilst reliable, are not perfect.
Now... What constitutes the passengers best interests under these circumstances?
We've all done things like that when we're crew only on board, however we have a duty to our passengers to know what is good for them even if they don't and to make a responsible decision with regard to the risks that we expose them to.
It's only a matter of time before someone finds a video like that in smouldering wreckage of such a flight.
BD
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WHAT IF, WHAT IF, WHAT IF. Bloody hell !! What if a tile fell off the space shuttle and hit you in the head ? should you stop walking out my front door each morning? For @#$& sake you may as well get a thrill out of live when you can! Not all of us want to be a boring stick in the mud prats. So what if they bite it, at least they go out having a blast. Life goes on, no one lives forever you know
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Strop......maybe not all of the pax wanted to have a roller coaster ride? Let's get it straight, it was a scenic flight (I assume). I believe your comment was a rather selfish one. We pilots must give all our customers the feeling that they are safe. I would like to know the comments of the pax of this particular flight if they would have given a full postflight briefing on what could have happened...
If a pilot wants to hot dog around he should charter the bird for himself and do whatever he wants over open ground. Then its all about having fun and not showing off!!
If a pilot wants to hot dog around he should charter the bird for himself and do whatever he wants over open ground. Then its all about having fun and not showing off!!
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A few points I would like to make about some of the comments on the ride:
1. The scenic flight business is very much dependent on ‘word of mouth’ advertising. We have seen it here on pprune where one rotorhead asks others who to fly with in Las Vegas or Hawaii.
2. I would think by the way most passengers had their cameras out that they had some idea of what they were in for; and probably that is why they were there.
3. ‘Non-scheduled public transport’, as we call ‘scenic flights’ in my part of the world, is regarded by insurers as inherently dangerous. It is excluded from most standard ‘travel insurance’ policies.
4. It can be argued that nothing in the video was dangerous unless there was an in-flight emergency. The same can be said for all forms of airline, sea, rail or road travel. Does the helicopter industry need another bout of self-flagellation?
5. If there is concern that a forced landing following a malfunction may lead to ‘issues’ then lets consider what issues need to be addressed if that forced landing was perfectly successful. It seems to me that they are flying over a pretty remote area where ‘rescue’ might be slow in coming. In which case should we be worried about the capability of the passengers to endure the survival phase before the rescue – I think not.
1. The scenic flight business is very much dependent on ‘word of mouth’ advertising. We have seen it here on pprune where one rotorhead asks others who to fly with in Las Vegas or Hawaii.
2. I would think by the way most passengers had their cameras out that they had some idea of what they were in for; and probably that is why they were there.
3. ‘Non-scheduled public transport’, as we call ‘scenic flights’ in my part of the world, is regarded by insurers as inherently dangerous. It is excluded from most standard ‘travel insurance’ policies.
4. It can be argued that nothing in the video was dangerous unless there was an in-flight emergency. The same can be said for all forms of airline, sea, rail or road travel. Does the helicopter industry need another bout of self-flagellation?
5. If there is concern that a forced landing following a malfunction may lead to ‘issues’ then lets consider what issues need to be addressed if that forced landing was perfectly successful. It seems to me that they are flying over a pretty remote area where ‘rescue’ might be slow in coming. In which case should we be worried about the capability of the passengers to endure the survival phase before the rescue – I think not.
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Shortshaft - Good points, and just for your info, the driving time from the main lodge of where that helo operates from, to anywhere on the property is about 30 mins and its all pretty accessible.
In addition the peelot in question follows the same route every time so those at the lodge know where he is going and he checks in by radio etc.
And yes the guests who go on this flight know pretty much what to expect as its explained to them at the lodge before they even get onto the helicopter.
Just thought you would like to know
In addition the peelot in question follows the same route every time so those at the lodge know where he is going and he checks in by radio etc.
And yes the guests who go on this flight know pretty much what to expect as its explained to them at the lodge before they even get onto the helicopter.
Just thought you would like to know
Thread Starter
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Hi again!!
After one year, this is the first time a see this thread after I started.
1st of all I have to thanks all replys, threads like this just makes us better pilots. After reading this and other threads (fortunatly I read the one about jack stall before post this one) I realise one more time that generaly the problem it is not if you are doing well or wrong, question is if you know what are you doing. That ´s why we are always learning.
2nd Keep them coming.
Thanks again
After one year, this is the first time a see this thread after I started.
1st of all I have to thanks all replys, threads like this just makes us better pilots. After reading this and other threads (fortunatly I read the one about jack stall before post this one) I realise one more time that generaly the problem it is not if you are doing well or wrong, question is if you know what are you doing. That ´s why we are always learning.
2nd Keep them coming.
Thanks again
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Another Video
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Strop - Congratulations! You have just become my COTM. It may well take someone of your intellect a while to work this abbreviation out.
Shortshaft - Sorry, you only came second. "Nothing Dangerous" (?!) You should take that act on tour, there may be some other like-minded individuals who would enjoy hearing more of your pearls.
Folks, I'm truly sorry that aviation has a pair of cowboys like you remotely associated with it.
Shortshaft - Sorry, you only came second. "Nothing Dangerous" (?!) You should take that act on tour, there may be some other like-minded individuals who would enjoy hearing more of your pearls.
Folks, I'm truly sorry that aviation has a pair of cowboys like you remotely associated with it.
Well boys....paint me Blue and hang a sign around my neck! I for one fail to see just what the feller did wrong. You climb onto a Ferris Wheel or Roller Coaster you expect it to be a thrill ride....exactly the same in this deal. For one....I "LOVE" whizzing about (or in some cases...merely clattering about) the treetops or below. I use my wits (what few that haven't been beaten out of me yet by Bell products) and never fly the route until I have done a recon (recce for you of the Tea Drinkers) and always prepare myself for flight by considering "what if's". I am also prepared to give it up at any time for any reason if things are not just right. All a paying passenger has to say...is "Whoa...Uncle!" and thrill ride ends.
The reason we do what we do is for the sheer enjoyment of it.....as the pay and benefits sure fail to measure up. I see this guy having a good time and doing it very professionally. The one thing I fault him for....is doing it in an A-Splat and not something really fast and agile like a MadDog. (Now that is a fun machine for such shenannigans!)
Anytime you fly a single engine machine...you take a risk of having a forced landing due to an engine failure...public transport flying and thrill ride giving are two different endeavours. I have done both ....and use completely different techniques for each.
As Ned has described....they do it in a professional manner....that is good enough for me.
The Puma video is good...and must have been good fun making. When the Statue of Limitations runs out...I might provide some done while flying a Huey a few years ago. Part of the sequence was on the Discovery Channel.
The reason we do what we do is for the sheer enjoyment of it.....as the pay and benefits sure fail to measure up. I see this guy having a good time and doing it very professionally. The one thing I fault him for....is doing it in an A-Splat and not something really fast and agile like a MadDog. (Now that is a fun machine for such shenannigans!)
Anytime you fly a single engine machine...you take a risk of having a forced landing due to an engine failure...public transport flying and thrill ride giving are two different endeavours. I have done both ....and use completely different techniques for each.
As Ned has described....they do it in a professional manner....that is good enough for me.
The Puma video is good...and must have been good fun making. When the Statue of Limitations runs out...I might provide some done while flying a Huey a few years ago. Part of the sequence was on the Discovery Channel.
Last edited by SASless; 31st Jan 2006 at 19:02.
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SAS my dear chap - you just edged SHortshaft out. I had presumed your vast number of posts somehow indicated you were a wise man of rotary aviation.
To be polite, this is not the case.
How sad that there may be unsuspecting PPruners out there who consider that your words have weight.
Watch those spurs don't catch the yaw pedals pardner.
To be polite, this is not the case.
How sad that there may be unsuspecting PPruners out there who consider that your words have weight.
Watch those spurs don't catch the yaw pedals pardner.
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Apart from taking his hands off, and a couple of the line choices, I really don't see the issue.
If you chase animals around for capture, do film work, or many other jobs, you fly in those environments all the time. Know you're enivronment, know your limits and those of the machine you're flying.
RH
If you chase animals around for capture, do film work, or many other jobs, you fly in those environments all the time. Know you're enivronment, know your limits and those of the machine you're flying.
RH