R22 Corner

[Hangar3]

Why do Al-Qeada need to know about R22 servicing costs?

[Musket097]

Oops! Didn't mean to start something.

No No No you've got it all wrong! Didn't mean to start something.

If 'Vfrpilotpb' wants to give up his anonymity that's fine and thats his choice.

But anonymity is my choice for what ever reason.

Yours Sincerely,

Musket 'Osama Bin Laden' 097


Lets ask this question and narrow it down a bit. Of the 63,000,000.5 people living in some 6500 towns and villages plus some 30 + counties and Metro areas how many are flying helicopters?

[Gaseous]

Redeye

Do you mean 'Editor' ?

No

NB have you seen me in a dress ???

Is that an offer or a chat up line????

[helicopter-redeye]

No I just wondered if I'd got drunk sometime and ended up in a dress. happens during dark months ...

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hey Ewe turn,


I meant like a Hedgehog, not like the friendly weapon!

Peter R-B
Vfr

[Ewe Turn]

Ah the humble hedgehog! My second favourite animal

[quichemech]

I asked where and why for the plain and simple reason that as an engineer I could have supplied some phone numbers for organisations that would happily let you know their costs.

A simple midlands area(for example) because I've just bought one or am thinking of buying one or am doing some research would have been more than enough information. However feel free to keep your valuable identity and find out for yourself

[muffin]

Well I have no hang ups about identity. I am in Derbyshire and am about to buy one so I would like the same info if you have it.

[helicopter-redeye]

OOps sorry M, I said I'd give you the data I had anyway. I'll post it a bit later for R22 and R44 based on sample of five companies that I asked to tender for the work.

h-r

[helicopter-redeye]

Anti Redeye day. I just posted the data and the system bombed. I see it has not landed so I'll type it all in again tomorrow .......

[helicopter-redeye]

Here is the data (having typed it out again, grr, and even then the tables do not come out 'right') - and me in IT.

R22 Data

R22 R22 R22
50hrs 100hrs Annual
Maintenance provider #1 £276 £621 £1,242
Maintenance provider #2
Maintenance provider #3 £275 £551 £1,362
Maintenance provider #4 £195 £480 £950
Maintenance provider #5 £270 £585 £1,530

R44 Data

R44 R44 R44
50hrs 100hrs Annual
Maintenance provider #1 £368 £736 £1,472
Maintenance provider #2 £315 £540 £1,080
Maintenance provider #3 £360 £763 £1,415
Maintenance provider #4 £250 £575 £1,000
Maintenance provider #5 £360 £585 £1,620


Labour Rates
Labour Rate
per hr
Maintenance provider #1 £46
Maintenance provider #2 £45
Maintenance provider #3 £45
Maintenance provider #4 £32
Maintenance provider #5 £45

I should add that all were 'plus VAT' and the rates may have changed from when I gathered the data in the service provider tender (assume prices have gone up not down).

Also consumables are usually excluded so what you are looking at in quoted prices is an estimated labour rate alone (plus maybe some oil and the off filter/ lock wire/ washer. etc.

The most expensive shown may thus not be the most expensive in practice. I would note that the actual amounts paid were rarely these. There were always 'extras' to account for so only by adding up two or three years worth of real invoices can you get close to the real cost of running a 22 or 44 in the rela world (the Robinson website figures are WAY off.



h-r

[Cron]

R22 startup - advise please

I have just read through:

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resou...pdf_024586.pdf

a report concerning an R22 lifting of during horn/light check with a subsequent roll over. The report states:

Since the reasons why the pilot had difficulty in maintaining and regaining control of the helicopter
stemmed from the friction applied to the collective and cyclic controls, it is recommended that the
Operator amends his procedures for the Low RPM check, after engaging the rotors, to reflect the
manufacturer's procedure.

In the checklist I use, I see no change in the frictions procedures. have they changed or am I misreading something?

Any advice and comments welcomed.

[Titus Frisbee]

Cron
Read the report again. there is no change to the POH, the problem was the operators checklist differs from the manual insofar as it allows for the horn check to be carried out with frictions on, - the correct procedure is carried out with frictions off. check your checklist and make sure you don't fall into the same trap as that unfortunate student.

[Hilico]

He would surely have had to move the collective a fair bit to get to take-off power - I found that just moving the lever off the stop would prompt the horn, friction or no friction.

[bladewashout]

The laminated check list provided by the operator I use also leaves the frictions on during the horn check. I personally take them off - I can't see the benefit in having them on at that stage.

would it take a major wind gust with a light load to let it start to turn on the skids? possibly not...

They have changed it to reflect the new governor-on prior to run up over 80%.

BW

[Dash1B]

!? I agree w/ Hilico, the horn comes on at <= 97% RRPM, and the collective needs only be slightly up -- nowhere near power needed to pick up, 20"-ish MP.

[Titus Frisbee]

Yes Dash
The horn does come on at 97% with the collective only slightly raised but remember the problem really started during the students second attempt, and with the friction tightly locked maybe he was unsure as to the position of the collective (relative to the down stop) also he said that during the first attempt he lowered the RRPM to 90%. Why?
Two points to consider (on 1st attempt)
One --Surely when when the RRPM dropped below 96% it was time to stop staring at the RRPM gauge and look elsewhere rather than continuing down to 90% and hoping that eventually the machine will decide to change it's mind and produce the correct result.
Or two perhaps he is prone to overcontrolling.

Either way it seems to me that he was concentrating to much on the RRPM gauge and was not sufficiently aware of the conseqences of raising the collective to much.

This leads to the mistake on the second attempt. Whilst Still staring at the the RRPM did he then continue to pull collective 'til the machine changed it's mind or did he overcontrol?- At the same time not having sufficient control over the collective due to the friction.
Either way he suddenly he finds himself trying to fly an R22 with the govenor off and frictions on- and then it was too late.

The accident report seems fairly conclusive insofar as it recommended that the operator changed it's procedure.

I'm personally not in favour of changing a procedure unless the old one is flawed/dangerous- even if the change comes from the manufacturer (why frank now tells us to turn the governor on twice is beyond me)

Also in this case the student may have had some chance of avoiding an accident if the govenor was on and frictions were off.

So as I dive for cover can I just ask what is the advantage of changing the checklist to friction on and govenor off? -Or has hindsight given everbody 20-20 vision on this one?

[Musket097]

Thanks

Thanks for the R22/R44 data really helpful.

Thanks to everone for there input, costs and anonimity.

Cheers,

Sadam!

[callie dog]

R22 Dash 4 Blades

We operate a number of R22's at our school, the feeling is that on machines that have had blades changed to the dash 4 series the machines now appear to be less powerful.

Any thoughts on this?

[TiPwEiGhT]

We have recently had blades changed too on our machines. I thought one was less powerful afterwards, however knowone else believed me!

Are the new -4's heavier perhaps?