R22 Corner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 700
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From: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
It is just a subjective observation which I have not had time to research properly. Mine has just had the -4 blades fitted and the other day I decided to put the blade tie downs on as it was out overnight and getting windy. I retrieved the tie downs from under the seat and ithe front one would not fit as the cord was not long enough. I had to find a piece of rope to extend it and make it fit comfortably.
Are they perchance longer?
Are they perchance longer?
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 467
Likes: 2
From: Earth.
I don't think they are longer, I have always found with most tiedowns for R22's that you have to tilt the head so it's lower at the front to tie it all up nicely. Certaibnly if they were longer it would explain the loss of power due to the extra weight, i think this would have caused some big problems though...
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 700
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From: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
Yes, could be. As I said it was just an observation. It was getting a bit windy at at the time and I just left the blades as they were. I don't really have a power comparison as I bought it with the new blades already fitted. As you say, additional length would cause all sorts of problems so I very much doubt if they are any different in that respect.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Australia
R44 Raven ll not starting
R44 Raven ll operating under normal ops, turned off to refuell, used rotor brake won't restart. Engine only started after x wiring starter motor, clutch will not engage. Engine will not start by starter button. Any Ideas what the problem is ????
Aircraft total hours 197
Aircraft total hours 197
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 467
Likes: 2
From: Earth.
I think it's buggered!
I guess you know that the rotor brake must be disengaged for start on Robbie's. Has the brake stuck ON? The microswitch on the brake itself could be knacked, thus not allowing the starter circuit to be completed. As for the clutch, again that could be the microswitch. I don't know how different the electrics are on the Raven2 compared to the original. It could be something simple like a short in the start circuit, however, my suggestion...
ask an engineer!
I guess you know that the rotor brake must be disengaged for start on Robbie's. Has the brake stuck ON? The microswitch on the brake itself could be knacked, thus not allowing the starter circuit to be completed. As for the clutch, again that could be the microswitch. I don't know how different the electrics are on the Raven2 compared to the original. It could be something simple like a short in the start circuit, however, my suggestion...
ask an engineer!
Better red than ...
Joined: Aug 2004
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,415
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From: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Take a look at the fuze on the RHS engine bay (next to the MR Chip & Low Fuel tester buttons).
Or the clutch switch itself as this links to the starter circuit.
Or even the master battery switch which could have failed.
Prob electrical (or bad bad bad fuel ??_
h-r
Or the clutch switch itself as this links to the starter circuit.
Or even the master battery switch which could have failed.
Prob electrical (or bad bad bad fuel ??_
h-r
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Queensland Australia
There have been a few rumours/examples of Raven IIs (ie: Fuel Injected versions) not starting when hot. Explanation has always been vapour locks.
I can vouch for the rotor brake microswitch causing trouble. Had it happen yesterday in the middle of an Airshow! Luckily got to do the main 5 ship hovering display after it wouldn't start once. Fixed itself.
Got it going then it wouldn't start for the group fly past later- not a big deal.
Anyway - found the top wire broken off at the solder joint on the microswitch. Soldered it back on and worked. Interestingly the "rotor brake on" light didn't illuminate with that wire broken.
Not sure why not. Worked when we connected it back up. I would have thought it would act like the brake was on and light up. ??
Have had a previous time when the switch itself stuck so that it stayed in the brake on position. Pulling on the brake chain and letting it fly back released it. Switch was replaced and was full of grunge.
If you get panel lights gauges etc with the master battery switch on and then nothing happens when you turn on the ignition switch - no sound of relays or vibrator, solenoids or starter motor. Think about the rotor brake .
I can vouch for the rotor brake microswitch causing trouble. Had it happen yesterday in the middle of an Airshow! Luckily got to do the main 5 ship hovering display after it wouldn't start once. Fixed itself.
Got it going then it wouldn't start for the group fly past later- not a big deal.
Anyway - found the top wire broken off at the solder joint on the microswitch. Soldered it back on and worked. Interestingly the "rotor brake on" light didn't illuminate with that wire broken.
Not sure why not. Worked when we connected it back up. I would have thought it would act like the brake was on and light up. ??
Have had a previous time when the switch itself stuck so that it stayed in the brake on position. Pulling on the brake chain and letting it fly back released it. Switch was replaced and was full of grunge.
If you get panel lights gauges etc with the master battery switch on and then nothing happens when you turn on the ignition switch - no sound of relays or vibrator, solenoids or starter motor. Think about the rotor brake .
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Queensland Australia
Had mine changed last year. But the main problem I had was that it took a lot of fiddling to get the blades right.
Initially they caused the collective to rise so fast that if I took my hand off the collective to change the radio the machine took off. So we changed the spring under the Pax seat to a lower tensioned one. (That is the biggest pain of a job I have seen on the Robbie. Getting the spring in and out is very difficult and is asking to have all your fingers sliced off by exploding spring)
Helped a bit but not much. Then changed the pitch links a bit still not much help then ended up doing the tabs - which we knew was the problem but we didn't want to do them if we could get away with it.
Then we changed the spring back because though it stopped the rise on the ground - in flight it kept on dropping to the floor.
The Dash 2 blades were a smooth as smooth and I expected that we would be able to drop the new blades on and it would be pretty much the same - Nope!
I was not very happy for quite a while but it finally got sorted out.
In the end it took about 6 or 8 hours of fiddling - over two or three sessions to get them right.
Initially they caused the collective to rise so fast that if I took my hand off the collective to change the radio the machine took off. So we changed the spring under the Pax seat to a lower tensioned one. (That is the biggest pain of a job I have seen on the Robbie. Getting the spring in and out is very difficult and is asking to have all your fingers sliced off by exploding spring)
Helped a bit but not much. Then changed the pitch links a bit still not much help then ended up doing the tabs - which we knew was the problem but we didn't want to do them if we could get away with it.
Then we changed the spring back because though it stopped the rise on the ground - in flight it kept on dropping to the floor.
The Dash 2 blades were a smooth as smooth and I expected that we would be able to drop the new blades on and it would be pretty much the same - Nope!
I was not very happy for quite a while but it finally got sorted out.
In the end it took about 6 or 8 hours of fiddling - over two or three sessions to get them right.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
The cows have been nibbling them during the night perhaps ?/
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 204
Likes: 2
From: In my tank engine
Did the starter motor turn the engine over and the engine would not start?
If this was the case, Did you prime the HOT engine? If so how long? (We used to prime the Raven 2 with a hot engine about 5 seconds, I will check I have a check list at work)
Did the starter motor not turn the engine? If so
Was the clutch light still on?
Was the rotor brake on?
I used to fly an Astro a few years back we had a problem quite often when the starter would not turn the engine we use to hear a clicking noise and the engine simply would not turn, We had to turn the small cog on the starter shaft (Underneath on the back of the engine) when this hapened. Then it would start no problem, BE SURE TO TURN OF THE BATTERY BEFORE TURNING THE COG. If this is the problem then your maintance needs to sort it out.
If this was the case, Did you prime the HOT engine? If so how long? (We used to prime the Raven 2 with a hot engine about 5 seconds, I will check I have a check list at work)
Did the starter motor not turn the engine? If so
Was the clutch light still on?
Was the rotor brake on?
I used to fly an Astro a few years back we had a problem quite often when the starter would not turn the engine we use to hear a clicking noise and the engine simply would not turn, We had to turn the small cog on the starter shaft (Underneath on the back of the engine) when this hapened. Then it would start no problem, BE SURE TO TURN OF THE BATTERY BEFORE TURNING THE COG. If this is the problem then your maintance needs to sort it out.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: USA
Blades are Heavier
I was told by Robinson that the new blades (stainless steel skins) are about 3 pounds heavier. Doesn't sound like much, but it depends on how that extra 3 pounds are distributed. Of course, I could be dead wrong, but I figured I'd share what I heard.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
From: Australia
We are just about to upgrade our astro model for a Raven II....mainly for charter and tours etc....has anyone out there had any major problems with the machine, anything to watch out for thats different than the astro apart from the obvious?
cheers
cheers
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: NW of SE.
R22 RPM overspeed
i have heard rumours at the flying school which i self fly hire at that a few of the R22's are in a bad state, due to alleged practice autos allowing the rotor RPM to go over its limits. I know in a real emergancy, you would need all the rotor RPM available, but must be contained during practice. Can anyone give me any advice on how to go about this issue? Is there any signs that this may have occured in previous flights of the helicopter im flying in? before anything catasrophic should happen.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
Andyhelo,
You are touching a very,very serious matter!
If you know that overspeeds have happened in the past at the school where you learn, don't go there anymore!
Unfortunately there are normally no obvious signs of overspeeds.
As per engine maintenance manual, overspeeds are classified in different categories depending on the amount of overspeed.
These can range from a slap on the wrist to scrapping blade attachement points, blades and bearings.
Try to find out what exactly happened and seek clarification.
You are touching a very,very serious matter!
If you know that overspeeds have happened in the past at the school where you learn, don't go there anymore!
Unfortunately there are normally no obvious signs of overspeeds.
As per engine maintenance manual, overspeeds are classified in different categories depending on the amount of overspeed.
These can range from a slap on the wrist to scrapping blade attachement points, blades and bearings.
Try to find out what exactly happened and seek clarification.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 73
From: Pewsey, UK
If, during practice autos / EOLs, the RRPM stays in the green and a successful conclusion is reached, that would seem to indicate that in the real event, there's no need to exceed RRPM limits - especially at the bottom end !