Life after the Military
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ivor
High hours pilots, mil or civvy, with experience of different types and different ops will always have an advantage over newly qualified pilots in the job market. Fact of life, and an advantage you'll probably think is reasonable when you get to that stage.
In what way are pilots who paid for training more deserving of a job than ex military pilots who will have got through a competitive selection procedure and then survived rigorous training with a high risk of being chopped at any stage before they are awarded their wings?
High hours pilots, mil or civvy, with experience of different types and different ops will always have an advantage over newly qualified pilots in the job market. Fact of life, and an advantage you'll probably think is reasonable when you get to that stage.
In what way are pilots who paid for training more deserving of a job than ex military pilots who will have got through a competitive selection procedure and then survived rigorous training with a high risk of being chopped at any stage before they are awarded their wings?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the positive responses guys and gals,
It would be easy to just sit back and rest on my laurels but one of the things that is lacking right now is a challenge and if that challenge is learning new methods and adapting to different pocedures then it may just be the way ahead for me.
I think it is always good to guage opinion before leaping though and as was suggested, 15 (not 10) years doing a similar job may just bring along too much of a comfort factor to be healthy.
All the best for what the New Year brings,
Regards,
HEDP
It would be easy to just sit back and rest on my laurels but one of the things that is lacking right now is a challenge and if that challenge is learning new methods and adapting to different pocedures then it may just be the way ahead for me.
I think it is always good to guage opinion before leaping though and as was suggested, 15 (not 10) years doing a similar job may just bring along too much of a comfort factor to be healthy.
All the best for what the New Year brings,
Regards,
HEDP
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some poor chap leaves the Services and probably doesn't have any other skills to offer society
I'm sure the command and people management skills cut little ice in todays modern bean-counter run economy ...............
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great, just what the UK job market needs. Another ex-miltary guy to hoover up all the decent turbine jobs, while those who paid for their training are left the scraps.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would have thought with 3800hrs and experience on various types people will be beating a path to your door sharpish.
The only thing which would make you perfect would be an IR.
I for one will be happy to welcome you to our side of the industry. I don't see any use in starting the Mil versus Civy bating.
There are enough job's to go around and we don't have that flood of exmil pilots anymore, so us civies get a look in now.
You just have to decide is it going to be the Northsea on mega bucks or is it going to be Police/HEMS/Corporate for medium bucks.
Good Luck.
The only thing which would make you perfect would be an IR.
I for one will be happy to welcome you to our side of the industry. I don't see any use in starting the Mil versus Civy bating.
There are enough job's to go around and we don't have that flood of exmil pilots anymore, so us civies get a look in now.
You just have to decide is it going to be the Northsea on mega bucks or is it going to be Police/HEMS/Corporate for medium bucks.
Good Luck.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
If you fancy living in the north of scotland, go for it, the money is much better. Us police pilots further south are quite well paid and have regular hours, with plenty of time off. We dislike living that far north, far too cold!! If you come to this unit, be prepared to have your car stolen...............
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: THE MANGROVE SWAMPS (RETIRED)
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HEDP,
Forget any of the bitchy time-wasting comments stirring up the old civil versus military debate from the likes of ivor the driver. It's often just sour grapes from those who couldn't get into the military. A good pilot is a good pilot. How he got his qualifications is irrelevant once he's got a bit of civil experience. With your hours there could be many openings available at the moment, depending on whether you will have your ATPL, twin-turbine time and an instrument rating when you leave.
A lot depends on what branch of the military you're in. If you're in the Navy and have offshore experience you should soon be able to pick up something in the offshore world at the moment. There are many openings in Africa with the big two (OLOG/Bristow, and CHC) at the moment. If you've served overseas or have any military combat experience you might quite enjoy Nigeria
. There are also vacancies in places like Sudan and some of the .....istan's at present. I had a most enjoyable end to my full-time flying career in Africa and as long as you're prepared to endure a few hardships and not afraid of a bit of danger occasionally you could well enjoy it. I had a wonderful time in the military and then as enjoyable a time in the civil flying world. The UK is safe, predictable, taxed and cold 
. Overseas is often warm, untaxed, and unpredictable. Take your choice - either are probably open to you in the next 12 months.
Mama
Forget any of the bitchy time-wasting comments stirring up the old civil versus military debate from the likes of ivor the driver. It's often just sour grapes from those who couldn't get into the military. A good pilot is a good pilot. How he got his qualifications is irrelevant once he's got a bit of civil experience. With your hours there could be many openings available at the moment, depending on whether you will have your ATPL, twin-turbine time and an instrument rating when you leave.
A lot depends on what branch of the military you're in. If you're in the Navy and have offshore experience you should soon be able to pick up something in the offshore world at the moment. There are many openings in Africa with the big two (OLOG/Bristow, and CHC) at the moment. If you've served overseas or have any military combat experience you might quite enjoy Nigeria
. There are also vacancies in places like Sudan and some of the .....istan's at present. I had a most enjoyable end to my full-time flying career in Africa and as long as you're prepared to endure a few hardships and not afraid of a bit of danger occasionally you could well enjoy it. I had a wonderful time in the military and then as enjoyable a time in the civil flying world. The UK is safe, predictable, taxed and cold . Overseas is often warm, untaxed, and unpredictable. Take your choice - either are probably open to you in the next 12 months.Mama
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good luck HEDP
So, speaking as a succesful businessman operating my own corporate heli, let me understand the winge here.
HEDP does well at school, passes military pilot selection and receives probably the best military training anywhere. He then serves his country for many years in harms way, flies a lot ( likely in scary conditions/ ducking lead because the mission demands it) , survives(!) and then seeks to continue in the job he clearly does best.
If 'scraps' are whats left then surely the message is 'hoover them up gladly or find something else to do. '
This guy is experienced and reliable and, from an employers perspective surely what they are looking for.
Just because you decided to become a commercial heli pilot, don't assume that the industry owes you a living. It exists to provide a service and make a profit.
Best of luck HEDP.
HEDP does well at school, passes military pilot selection and receives probably the best military training anywhere. He then serves his country for many years in harms way, flies a lot ( likely in scary conditions/ ducking lead because the mission demands it) , survives(!) and then seeks to continue in the job he clearly does best.
If 'scraps' are whats left then surely the message is 'hoover them up gladly or find something else to do. '
This guy is experienced and reliable and, from an employers perspective surely what they are looking for.
Just because you decided to become a commercial heli pilot, don't assume that the industry owes you a living. It exists to provide a service and make a profit.
Best of luck HEDP.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the encouragement guys,
Would have replied earlier but got locked out pending activation of a new email address.
I guess it is just down to getting the bridging course done now. A question if i may:
I have 100+ hours actual instrument conditions, 120+ simulated aircraft instrument hours plus some simulator instrument hours and hold a Green military Rating as an IRI, any idea what if any of this would be accreditable for an IR?
Ivor,
Thats like saying that it is unfair for people to be sponsored by airlines and then preferred to self funders, or am i missing something?
Whirly,
Thanks for the sentiment but I can assure you I am not particularly disadvantaged and wont be a drain on society as you suggest. I do have other strings to my bow thanks all the same. We (military) dont all have a single qualification on which to rely and there are some very highly qualified guys and gals in the Services,
HEDP
Would have replied earlier but got locked out pending activation of a new email address.
I guess it is just down to getting the bridging course done now. A question if i may:
I have 100+ hours actual instrument conditions, 120+ simulated aircraft instrument hours plus some simulator instrument hours and hold a Green military Rating as an IRI, any idea what if any of this would be accreditable for an IR?
Ivor,
Thats like saying that it is unfair for people to be sponsored by airlines and then preferred to self funders, or am i missing something?
Whirly,
Thanks for the sentiment but I can assure you I am not particularly disadvantaged and wont be a drain on society as you suggest. I do have other strings to my bow thanks all the same. We (military) dont all have a single qualification on which to rely and there are some very highly qualified guys and gals in the Services,
HEDP
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone with HEDP's experience is in no way in competition with a newbie straight out of school.
How can he be? He's 15 years ahead in his career and with a proven track record. No way can you compare someone with 250 hrs of R22 time to that!
Jobs aplenty for you HEDP. If not in the rotary world then fixed wing airlines are crying out for anyone with any experience. Not as much fun though!
How can he be? He's 15 years ahead in his career and with a proven track record. No way can you compare someone with 250 hrs of R22 time to that!
Jobs aplenty for you HEDP. If not in the rotary world then fixed wing airlines are crying out for anyone with any experience. Not as much fun though!
Tightgit
HEDP, the info you require will be found in LASORS
LASORS
Basically, the bits that will affect you are
• A QSP(H) who has held an AAC (unlimited) or
Unrestricted* Green (or Master Green) helicopter
instrument rating within the 5 years preceding the
date of application for the IR(H), will be required
to complete flight instruction at the discretion of
the Head of Training of an approved FTO.
• A QSP(H) who has held a AAC (limited) or a
restricted* Green (or Master Green) helicopter
instrument rating within the 5 years preceding the
date of application for the IR(H), is required to
complete a minimum of 15 hours IR training at an
approved FTO, of which 5 hours may be in a
FNPT 1 or 10 hours in a FNPT 2 or flight
simulator.
*The terms “restricted” and “unrestricted” apply as used
in MOD documents referring to the pilot Instrument
Rating Scheme. Thus “unrestricted” is the privilege to
operate as GAT or OAT in all classes of airspace;
“restricted” refers to any restrictions applied by
Commands/Groups according to the experience of the
pilot or limitations of the aircraft/helicopter type.
In all cases the applicant is required to obtain a 170A
Certificate of Training and Competence from an
authorised 170A signatory. A QSP claiming the above
credits must enclose a certified true copy of the MOD
Instrument Rating Form 166 relating to his/her last
instrument rating when applying for the issue of a
JAR-FCL IR.
Good luck, it's great outside
LASORS
Basically, the bits that will affect you are
• A QSP(H) who has held an AAC (unlimited) or
Unrestricted* Green (or Master Green) helicopter
instrument rating within the 5 years preceding the
date of application for the IR(H), will be required
to complete flight instruction at the discretion of
the Head of Training of an approved FTO.
• A QSP(H) who has held a AAC (limited) or a
restricted* Green (or Master Green) helicopter
instrument rating within the 5 years preceding the
date of application for the IR(H), is required to
complete a minimum of 15 hours IR training at an
approved FTO, of which 5 hours may be in a
FNPT 1 or 10 hours in a FNPT 2 or flight
simulator.
*The terms “restricted” and “unrestricted” apply as used
in MOD documents referring to the pilot Instrument
Rating Scheme. Thus “unrestricted” is the privilege to
operate as GAT or OAT in all classes of airspace;
“restricted” refers to any restrictions applied by
Commands/Groups according to the experience of the
pilot or limitations of the aircraft/helicopter type.
In all cases the applicant is required to obtain a 170A
Certificate of Training and Competence from an
authorised 170A signatory. A QSP claiming the above
credits must enclose a certified true copy of the MOD
Instrument Rating Form 166 relating to his/her last
instrument rating when applying for the issue of a
JAR-FCL IR.
Good luck, it's great outside
Nigerian In Law
HEDP,
The North Sea operators will put you through a standard course leading to an initial IR. Doesn't matter where you came from or what you've been doing. My stick buddy was a former RN Lt Cmdr A2 QHI and we did the same course. It's a good thorough course that prepares you for the test.
Good luck whichever route you decide on.
NEO.
The North Sea operators will put you through a standard course leading to an initial IR. Doesn't matter where you came from or what you've been doing. My stick buddy was a former RN Lt Cmdr A2 QHI and we did the same course. It's a good thorough course that prepares you for the test.
Good luck whichever route you decide on.
NEO.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HEDP,
Left the green machine a couple of years ago and have managed to have a go at pretty much everything since, though not abroad yet.
The police/hems is ok, can be exciting at times but generally lots of sitting around waiting for something to happen playing computer solitaire, the money is not brilliant either and you can end up working long weeks. The good side of Police/Hems is there are units all over the country to choose from you will however have to crowbar somebody out to get a seat. Pipelines are hard work and not very well paid but you generally work a 3 day week in good weather, longer if bad. Instructing, dissmal. My personnal choice is offshore, good money, more time off than you know what to do with, big aircraft and bringing in new stuff in some companies. The work is straight forward as well, go to work an hour before the flight, fly, go home.
Loads to choose from, one tip keep all the c*£p off your CV, nobody cares if you won this, that or the other in tiddlywinks.
Good Luck
Left the green machine a couple of years ago and have managed to have a go at pretty much everything since, though not abroad yet.
The police/hems is ok, can be exciting at times but generally lots of sitting around waiting for something to happen playing computer solitaire, the money is not brilliant either and you can end up working long weeks. The good side of Police/Hems is there are units all over the country to choose from you will however have to crowbar somebody out to get a seat. Pipelines are hard work and not very well paid but you generally work a 3 day week in good weather, longer if bad. Instructing, dissmal. My personnal choice is offshore, good money, more time off than you know what to do with, big aircraft and bringing in new stuff in some companies. The work is straight forward as well, go to work an hour before the flight, fly, go home.
Loads to choose from, one tip keep all the c*£p off your CV, nobody cares if you won this, that or the other in tiddlywinks.
Good Luck
