impossable or just improbable
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impossable or just improbable
Having spent some time now looking round PpRuNe i find that i am becoming increasingly dispondant about the chances of ever finding work within this industry, and i havnt even completed my cpl.
It seems to me that as helo pilots throught our careers we will allways be paying out of our own pockets for to get anywhere, be it type ratings, lisences for other contries or endorsments on the lisence. I am beginning that i may have choosen un-wisely by going with helos, seems fixed wing have all the benifits and none of the downs.
Dont get me wrong flying is what i have allways wanted to do since being a young lad and here i am now doing it, and i dont think that there could be any better feeling than driving a helo, but really what are the chances of ever breaking into this industry without winning the lotto?
And it p***es me off when people write about a helo costing $2million so why should a low hour pilot get to fly it. How else are we to ever get the experience if no one is willing to give us a chance?
Before doing this i was a truck driver, and i drove a rig worth quater of a million pounds, with a payload of three quaters of a million, and i was only 21 at the time, nobody batted an eyelid at that though.
So what i am really getting at is if anyone out there has any advice/stories of how they started than it maybe useful and if not useful it may be entertaining.
It seems to me that as helo pilots throught our careers we will allways be paying out of our own pockets for to get anywhere, be it type ratings, lisences for other contries or endorsments on the lisence. I am beginning that i may have choosen un-wisely by going with helos, seems fixed wing have all the benifits and none of the downs.
Dont get me wrong flying is what i have allways wanted to do since being a young lad and here i am now doing it, and i dont think that there could be any better feeling than driving a helo, but really what are the chances of ever breaking into this industry without winning the lotto?
And it p***es me off when people write about a helo costing $2million so why should a low hour pilot get to fly it. How else are we to ever get the experience if no one is willing to give us a chance?
Before doing this i was a truck driver, and i drove a rig worth quater of a million pounds, with a payload of three quaters of a million, and i was only 21 at the time, nobody batted an eyelid at that though.
So what i am really getting at is if anyone out there has any advice/stories of how they started than it maybe useful and if not useful it may be entertaining.
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Yo Sidekick
One of my very good friends was a Big Rig owner driver and fancied the Heli's, he stuck at it and is now flying Super Pumas in the North Sea, he went through hell and high water to chase his goal, including one employer who still owes him £20K plus nearly four years on, so my advice for what it is worth, Stick at it.
There is only one thing available in a rush, they normally come with no gaurantees cost you all your free dosh and need a pram!
Keep at it it will come, the job I mean!
Peter RB
Vfr
One of my very good friends was a Big Rig owner driver and fancied the Heli's, he stuck at it and is now flying Super Pumas in the North Sea, he went through hell and high water to chase his goal, including one employer who still owes him £20K plus nearly four years on, so my advice for what it is worth, Stick at it.
There is only one thing available in a rush, they normally come with no gaurantees cost you all your free dosh and need a pram!
Keep at it it will come, the job I mean!
Peter RB
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Steve76 and coyote, you both made me laugh out loud. It's odd isn't it? I know so many English people who can't write grammatically correct sentences or spell properly. What is it with the English primary and secondary school system?
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Warren,
They teach the children to spell it how it sounds or how they say it. As a result, my 12 y/o spells reference, "refrence" and cause, "caws". I can't remember the last time he came home with a spelling test as homework. Perhaps if the education system in the UK wasn't used by successive governments as a political football, the teachers and students might stand a chance.
Taff
They teach the children to spell it how it sounds or how they say it. As a result, my 12 y/o spells reference, "refrence" and cause, "caws". I can't remember the last time he came home with a spelling test as homework. Perhaps if the education system in the UK wasn't used by successive governments as a political football, the teachers and students might stand a chance.
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I would just like to say in the defence of "bad spellers"...
Although I agree that every effort should be made to spell properly (I reckon SMS and online messaging has a lot to answer for) some people cannot get it no matter how hard they try. I know several intelligent and competent people who really struggle with their spelling and have suffered prejudice throughout their lives (school and adult) along with the lack of confidence, frustration and embarrassment that this often induces.
Oh yeah, and spell checkers don't always work either - many misspelled words are actually other words spelled correctly so they don't show up. No what I mean?
Anyway, helicopters...
Although I agree that every effort should be made to spell properly (I reckon SMS and online messaging has a lot to answer for) some people cannot get it no matter how hard they try. I know several intelligent and competent people who really struggle with their spelling and have suffered prejudice throughout their lives (school and adult) along with the lack of confidence, frustration and embarrassment that this often induces.
Oh yeah, and spell checkers don't always work either - many misspelled words are actually other words spelled correctly so they don't show up. No what I mean?
Anyway, helicopters...
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Skidkicker75
Keep at it, it is unfortunatly part of the process, to suceed in this industry you have to be tenacious and focused on what you really want to enable you to rise above those that arn't.
I did.
Oh and for all those smart arses out there that think being able to spell, and gramaticise is the be all and end all are just pedants.
Yes it is nice if you can spend the time and effort on such detail but this is not a CV from the guy to a prospective employer,he is just venting his dismay at his situation, and there are very few people out there that havent in thier past felt exactly the same. I know I did.
As you can see from the above spelin an stuff is not my best asset either, (I have had two spell checkers actually resiegn on me half way thruogh a letter)But as an ex underground electrician (now probably called, in todays self engratiating job title arena, Sub terrainian mineral extraction engineer) being made redundant in 1988 to a North Sea Commander earning in excess of £67K and only yet on scale 5 of 17, Flying a MK2 Supa puma modern helicopter (Nick Lappos hold your tongue) with nine years onshore Commercial VFR flying and QHI ratings to boot, spellin and stuf is not regarded by me at least a measure of your competance.
Good Hunting.
MaxNG
Keep at it, it is unfortunatly part of the process, to suceed in this industry you have to be tenacious and focused on what you really want to enable you to rise above those that arn't.
I did.
Oh and for all those smart arses out there that think being able to spell, and gramaticise is the be all and end all are just pedants.
Yes it is nice if you can spend the time and effort on such detail but this is not a CV from the guy to a prospective employer,he is just venting his dismay at his situation, and there are very few people out there that havent in thier past felt exactly the same. I know I did.
As you can see from the above spelin an stuff is not my best asset either, (I have had two spell checkers actually resiegn on me half way thruogh a letter)But as an ex underground electrician (now probably called, in todays self engratiating job title arena, Sub terrainian mineral extraction engineer) being made redundant in 1988 to a North Sea Commander earning in excess of £67K and only yet on scale 5 of 17, Flying a MK2 Supa puma modern helicopter (Nick Lappos hold your tongue) with nine years onshore Commercial VFR flying and QHI ratings to boot, spellin and stuf is not regarded by me at least a measure of your competance.
Good Hunting.
MaxNG
Presumably the bloke who sweeps out the hangar didn't have a long and strenuous training programme, and then numerous dissapointments, so that he could work full time in aviation. Presumably he also didn't start his first aviation job penniless or in debt and feeling deeply privileged to be there nonetheless.
But, I doubt anybody else avoided it - whether it's an Engineer, Pilot or even most of the administrators (although you wonder sometimes) nobody had an easy route in.
And, whilst it's a dull mind that can only think of one way to spell a word, most of us do have a dictionary on the shelf.
G
A boy ran away to the circus. His father followed him to the next town and found him behind the big top knee-deep and mucking out the elephants. "Son", he said "please come home"; "what?" said the boy, grinning and looking around him, "and miss out on being part of all the glamour of showbusiness". Welcome to professional aviation!
But, I doubt anybody else avoided it - whether it's an Engineer, Pilot or even most of the administrators (although you wonder sometimes) nobody had an easy route in.
And, whilst it's a dull mind that can only think of one way to spell a word, most of us do have a dictionary on the shelf.
G
A boy ran away to the circus. His father followed him to the next town and found him behind the big top knee-deep and mucking out the elephants. "Son", he said "please come home"; "what?" said the boy, grinning and looking around him, "and miss out on being part of all the glamour of showbusiness". Welcome to professional aviation!
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MaxNg
Im amazd you ha'vnt realy understood the problem. If well intensiond folk like skidkicker75 can go through all the graft to get a lisense isnt it about time the helo industry got its act together and created enuf jobs so that anywon who got a lisense could get the job they deservd. and a well payed won to.
Im amazd you ha'vnt realy understood the problem. If well intensiond folk like skidkicker75 can go through all the graft to get a lisense isnt it about time the helo industry got its act together and created enuf jobs so that anywon who got a lisense could get the job they deservd. and a well payed won to.
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Rotorspeed
What are you smoking !!!
I did not miss the point I mearly stated that if you want something bad enough you will find a way to get it.
and no one owes anyone a job, there is only one reason that I am getting paid well, and it's got bu**er all to do with my exceptional skills as an aviator, not evan remotly connected to my incredible good looks, not I repeat not even my charm has any influence on it.
It is supply and demand, and therefore the harder it is for people like you and me to get a foot hold on the job market the better I will get paid
Sorry Skidkicker but that's life.
MaxNG
What are you smoking !!!
I did not miss the point I mearly stated that if you want something bad enough you will find a way to get it.
and no one owes anyone a job, there is only one reason that I am getting paid well, and it's got bu**er all to do with my exceptional skills as an aviator, not evan remotly connected to my incredible good looks, not I repeat not even my charm has any influence on it.
It is supply and demand, and therefore the harder it is for people like you and me to get a foot hold on the job market the better I will get paid
Sorry Skidkicker but that's life.
MaxNG
Howcanwebeexpectedtoflylikeeagles
whensurroundedbyturkeys
Sllepnig - Deos it rallley mttaer?
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it
deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are,
the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer
be at the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it
wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not
raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Amzanig huh?
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it
deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are,
the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer
be at the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it
wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not
raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Amzanig huh?
"Just a pilot"
Skidkicker75-
It's not impossible. Civilians do it regularly. Like learning to fly, you have to have the "it" to make "it" happen. Some do "it" and do it well.
The improbable part is something you, in particular, have to decide- for your unique situation and personality.
Analogy- when you're PIC, you're all alone when the "rubber meets the road." If you're lucky you'll hear voices, offering advice, and if you're really lucky you'll crash (or not), publicly- and make the evening news. But- you'll live or die with what *you* can do for yourself. Nobody can help you. You'll decide what's a realistic expectation, and you'd better not wish yourself to death....
Don't fool yourself now, either. If you're unsure of your ability to do this, quit now. Write it off as life enrichment and cut your losses.
I'm not an airplane driver, but my best guess is that it's no easier to get a paying seat without swinging your wings. You might hear more success stories, but that's because there's more fixed wing jobs. There's also more fixed wing pilots...
My impression is that the rate of success is about the same.
Final thought- I love my job, and have since '68. But I had no choice- I HAD to do it. If you have to ask, maybe....
It's not impossible. Civilians do it regularly. Like learning to fly, you have to have the "it" to make "it" happen. Some do "it" and do it well.
The improbable part is something you, in particular, have to decide- for your unique situation and personality.
Analogy- when you're PIC, you're all alone when the "rubber meets the road." If you're lucky you'll hear voices, offering advice, and if you're really lucky you'll crash (or not), publicly- and make the evening news. But- you'll live or die with what *you* can do for yourself. Nobody can help you. You'll decide what's a realistic expectation, and you'd better not wish yourself to death....
Don't fool yourself now, either. If you're unsure of your ability to do this, quit now. Write it off as life enrichment and cut your losses.
I'm not an airplane driver, but my best guess is that it's no easier to get a paying seat without swinging your wings. You might hear more success stories, but that's because there's more fixed wing jobs. There's also more fixed wing pilots...
My impression is that the rate of success is about the same.
Final thought- I love my job, and have since '68. But I had no choice- I HAD to do it. If you have to ask, maybe....
MaxNg,
Get your hand off it mate. Spelling isn't everything by any means, agreed. But for the most part my initial comment re spelling was serious, because it is apparent that spelling isn't his strong point, yes?
A good mate of mine is CFI and Chief Pilot and a hell of a good pilot and spelling isn't his strong point either.
Now would you give a first job to a guy who probably doesn't believe he can succeed, is pi$$ed off, with a poorly spelt CV? Every little bit counts and I thought all my advice was actually quite relevant.
And oh yeah, I've gone from Trainee Janitor to Extrastellar Teleportation Supreme Guru flying a Particle Beam Phase Shifter (Mk 3, sorry Nick) with a 15 Axis Photon Controller, with over 900 Inter Galactic Approvals, earning billions on payscale 99 of 99. So call me when you get to 17 and tell me I'm a smart arse then eh?
Jeez I love being a billionaire......
Get your hand off it mate. Spelling isn't everything by any means, agreed. But for the most part my initial comment re spelling was serious, because it is apparent that spelling isn't his strong point, yes?
A good mate of mine is CFI and Chief Pilot and a hell of a good pilot and spelling isn't his strong point either.
Now would you give a first job to a guy who probably doesn't believe he can succeed, is pi$$ed off, with a poorly spelt CV? Every little bit counts and I thought all my advice was actually quite relevant.
And oh yeah, I've gone from Trainee Janitor to Extrastellar Teleportation Supreme Guru flying a Particle Beam Phase Shifter (Mk 3, sorry Nick) with a 15 Axis Photon Controller, with over 900 Inter Galactic Approvals, earning billions on payscale 99 of 99. So call me when you get to 17 and tell me I'm a smart arse then eh?
Jeez I love being a billionaire......
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Ahhh Hugh Martin, you are indeed a clever man, it does not matter what order the letters are in but you need to have at least the correct letters in the word. Thus KwikFit is not acceptable whereas spoonerisms can be understood. If you are writing a CV you should be able to spell and punctuate.
Anyway to the guy who started this post........stick with it, I didn't get a helicopter job for 7 months then got offered 2 jobs on the same day. Now I work on the 332L with the previously mentioned Hugh.
Anyway to the guy who started this post........stick with it, I didn't get a helicopter job for 7 months then got offered 2 jobs on the same day. Now I work on the 332L with the previously mentioned Hugh.
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grammar
To all of you who have posted replys to this subject, i would like to thank you for your support and encouragement. As i said in my origonal post this is something that i have wanted to do since being a small boy and i wont be discouraged by knockbacks when i come to finding a job.
If the jobs were given to those with the most enthusiasm then i would have employers knocking down my door to offer me captain positions on super pumas or cheif test pilot for eurocoptor, but unfortunatly they dont so as many of you have said "just stick at it".
I will and one day i may be in the machine next to you!!!
To those of you that have criticized my spelling and grammar, firstly i was in quite a hurry to get to post out so did not have the time to be meticulous over spelling.
Second i wasnt aware that just by posting a thread on the site that i was being interviewed for a job or appraised on my intilect.
Third The reason i probally have trouble spelling in down to the fact that at school all i did was look out the window wondering if i would ever fly, rather than concentrating on how to spell.
And just as a by line. I have undertaken all my cpl exams out here and have not failed one. No great shakes maybe, but i self studied for all but one. Again some of you will be saying that its no big thing, however, many of my co students have sat in on the classes for each subject and are still failing them one after another, time and time again.
P.S if anybody can tell me where the spell checker is i will gladly use it.
If the jobs were given to those with the most enthusiasm then i would have employers knocking down my door to offer me captain positions on super pumas or cheif test pilot for eurocoptor, but unfortunatly they dont so as many of you have said "just stick at it".
I will and one day i may be in the machine next to you!!!
To those of you that have criticized my spelling and grammar, firstly i was in quite a hurry to get to post out so did not have the time to be meticulous over spelling.
Second i wasnt aware that just by posting a thread on the site that i was being interviewed for a job or appraised on my intilect.
Third The reason i probally have trouble spelling in down to the fact that at school all i did was look out the window wondering if i would ever fly, rather than concentrating on how to spell.
And just as a by line. I have undertaken all my cpl exams out here and have not failed one. No great shakes maybe, but i self studied for all but one. Again some of you will be saying that its no big thing, however, many of my co students have sat in on the classes for each subject and are still failing them one after another, time and time again.
P.S if anybody can tell me where the spell checker is i will gladly use it.
Skidkicker,
best to type it in Microsoft Word and use the spell check in that programme.
Coyote is very correct. If you are looking for a job with me and your CV is full of typing or spelling errors you are going to be filed in the round bin.
That is why spellchecker was invented for guys like us.
First impressions count.
best to type it in Microsoft Word and use the spell check in that programme.
Coyote is very correct. If you are looking for a job with me and your CV is full of typing or spelling errors you are going to be filed in the round bin.
That is why spellchecker was invented for guys like us.
First impressions count.
Hovering AND talking
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Quite seriously, I have to recruit people in my job (which isn't aviation - yet!) and the CV is the first impression that I get of that candidate.
My view is that spelling and grammar DO matter and if you have any doubt, get someone else to run their eye over your CV for any errors. You might not have a second chance.
Spelling and grammar is one issue that seems to polarize the Pprune community. However, we should accept that we all type things in a hurry and, whilst I try to be careful, the odd typo can always slip through! However, your CV should not be done in a hurry so, have an an@lly-retentive pedant such as myself, check it. If you recognise that spelling ain't your strong point, then don't feel ashamed in asking for help.
Cheers
Whirlygig
My view is that spelling and grammar DO matter and if you have any doubt, get someone else to run their eye over your CV for any errors. You might not have a second chance.
Spelling and grammar is one issue that seems to polarize the Pprune community. However, we should accept that we all type things in a hurry and, whilst I try to be careful, the odd typo can always slip through! However, your CV should not be done in a hurry so, have an an@lly-retentive pedant such as myself, check it. If you recognise that spelling ain't your strong point, then don't feel ashamed in asking for help.
Cheers
Whirlygig
It's probably not the spelling and grammar in themselves that matter - it's attention to detail.
Any aerospace company, regardless of role, needs employees - pilots, engineers, launch controllers!, whatever, with an obsessive attention to detail. That way expensive and potentially life threatening mistakes hopefully don't get made. If you can't apply that level of rigour when applying for a job, it's a fair assumption that you may not in something safety critical.
And even when posting on Pprune or sending an Email to a colleague, people will make a similar judgement I'm afraid. I certainly have been questioned or complemented before now on my Pprune posts by some quite senior people within my industry (anonymity is not what it once was!), and I know of others who have had similar ' issues ' - ask Whirlybird for example about her Helicopter AFI course and the fact that she discussed it on Pprune.
So, attention to detail is everything, and if you always act as if you were being interviewed for a job you may do yourself some favours. After a while it gets easier - but it may interest you to know that the RAF considers it important enough that they have a self-study course (called ISS, or Independent Study School) to train officers, and in particular pilots, in grammar, spelling and clear writing.
Ultimately working in aerospace is about obsessive attention to every detail.
G
Any aerospace company, regardless of role, needs employees - pilots, engineers, launch controllers!, whatever, with an obsessive attention to detail. That way expensive and potentially life threatening mistakes hopefully don't get made. If you can't apply that level of rigour when applying for a job, it's a fair assumption that you may not in something safety critical.
And even when posting on Pprune or sending an Email to a colleague, people will make a similar judgement I'm afraid. I certainly have been questioned or complemented before now on my Pprune posts by some quite senior people within my industry (anonymity is not what it once was!), and I know of others who have had similar ' issues ' - ask Whirlybird for example about her Helicopter AFI course and the fact that she discussed it on Pprune.
So, attention to detail is everything, and if you always act as if you were being interviewed for a job you may do yourself some favours. After a while it gets easier - but it may interest you to know that the RAF considers it important enough that they have a self-study course (called ISS, or Independent Study School) to train officers, and in particular pilots, in grammar, spelling and clear writing.
Ultimately working in aerospace is about obsessive attention to every detail.
G