Air Ambulance rescue (Now incl post by the Paramedic - 9/11)

[Auscan]

Good Job Gents,

A similar situation in Canada a while back. A depressed individual decided to escape from his institution and hang himslef from the goal posts at a local high school. The local copper chopper picked him up with the flir in the middle of the night after just doing the deed. The boys landed on the field and cut the man down. Life saved. No red tape. No complaints about landing approvals. Once again good job.

[Heliport]

huntnhound

I've changed the title of your thread to remove 'Bond'.
I think the Great North Air Ambulance based at Teesside is operated by PAS.

If I'm wrong, let me know and I'll change it back.

Heliport

[S76Heavy]

Sounds like sour grapes from someone with 1200 almost-flying hours.. .

Flying is a calculated risk, so was this rescue. The engine loss exposure time with the driver on board would have been minimal, especially if it was windy.
So stick to observing as long as you find the rule book more important than situational awareness and airmanship and leave the decision making to real aviation professionals.

[Bomber ARIS]

Death by Health & Safety!!

The facts: A highly trained pilot. An experienced Paramedic crewmember, used to thinking & working "outside the box". A multi-engined helicopter, maintained to UK CAA Public Transport standards. A one-off situation.

The potential consequences of inaction:


What happens next????????



I find it truly regrettable to witness the indoctrination of an individual to the extent that humanity takes a back seat. To slavishly follow the Health & Safety ethos that pervades today, with no allowance for random acts of compassion; not to believe that a human being may weigh up the odds and make a calculated decision - I weep for the future!

[EESDL]

I hope that HH is not the observer on a chopper that may possibly find me in such a predicament and has a say in the decision to help.
There did not seem anything 'gung-ho' about the crews' actions and the decision to act before the car was swept over that weir appears to have been the correct one.
May I suggest that HH is awarded an 'ology in Hindsight and differing.

I can see what you are getting at HH, in some pics it does indeed look like it should have been feasible for the driver to get out unaided. I would imagine that the fact that no one else had bothered to wade to his aid from the many ranks of onlookers gives us the answer to your query.

[huntnhound]

With regard to ......"So stick to observing as long as you find the rule book more important than situational awareness and airmanship and leave the decision making to real aviation professionals"

Why not visit the A.A.I.B where you can see the results of some other `Aviation Professionals`.

But like I said before.....It probably wont happen to you!

[S76Heavy]

No, it probably won't happen to me. Because my current aircraft would not fit between the trees and produce too much downdraft to even contemplate a similar rescue. Even if I had a crewmember to spare..

As long as you stick to your personal limits (and the law, obviously), stop patronising others with more experience. This crew took a decision based on experience, personal limits and situational awareness and weighed the risks. How do you feel about the B206 crew that rescued survivors from the Potomac? Would you patronise them for flying single engined in icing conditions and taking unnecessary risks?

Just for fun surf the net for what even a shallow layer of water can do if it moves fast enough. You might be surprised.

[sss]

of course there is a possibility of a malfunction of some description

but likewise you could get a blow out on a tyre at 70mph in a car the effects can be just as much a disaster. should we stop driving cars, should policemen not drive at 100+mph in case they may get a puncture?

there is a risk at anything, are you saying that the rescue should not have been done?

[huntnhound]

Its a matter for the individual of course.

The air ambulance in the UK is NOT a search and rescue..nor are the Police.

If nothing untoward happens...every ones a winner ...lovely jubberly...back home for tea and medals ...and heaps of praise.

Life is good ...right decision made...real action heros at work...fantastic Well done every one... How you do it I`ll never know.. What skill...amazing stuff.

I hope I dont sound too patronising now...you are simply the best in the world.

If I crash my car at 40mph I have a good chance of living...
You £$&* it up at 200` and every one dies.

But like I said before it wont happen to you..it happens to someone else, so dont wory and enjoy the medals

[sss]

are you proposing that the crew should do nothing?

[volrider]

Tell you what worries me most about this thread boys, its that Audi's are obviously sh*t in the wet!! Glad I have my tried and trusted Lada.
Anyway I think HH is only playing devils advocate I am sure he would do excactly the same thing as the guys in the 105 however he has a point all plaudits to the crew but what if.......
God forbid that ever happens of course.

[widgeon]

bandage one, a BK117 ,rescued a man from quite far out in Lake ontario in a similar fashion some time in the 90"s or late 80"s.
the machine later burnt out at Buttonville.
USed to have a copy of the news article.

[John Eacott]

Hunthounds,

What a miserable git you must be to work with: unfortunately we are going down the extreme OH&S regime with which you seem endeared, I just hope you don't look after us as a Worksafe Inspector


Well done, "stunt pilot" Peter Barnes and Kevin Hodgson.

At least it was only an Audi.........

[Pub User]

hh

If you're to achieve any level of credibility here you have to suggest a better course of action, not just harp on about how unbelievably reckless this crew was.

You're right, engines and tail rotors do occasionally fail, but not very often. Do you think the crew just blindly did what you consider inappropriate? Or did they asses the situation and take what they saw as the best course of action?

[VeeAny]

Well done Pete and crew, just for trying never mind succeeding.



V.

[ShyTorque]

This self-righteous attitude makes me puke. Some crews amongst us have spent a career flying SAR aircraft without a single engined hover capability and just a single tail rotor. Did it myself for quite a few years. So, according to this argument, we were endangering the aircraft almost every time we went to a job. If a donk had stopped while we were over a ship, or a slope, or a cliff, I wouldn't be here talking about it. So what, it was what we were trained to do and paid to do it - but it didn't mean the risk was any less.

This crew will have made a professional judgment / risk assessment here and it worked - good on them.

I was faced with a situation like this with a police aircraft late one night. After assessment I declined to help because I couldn't safely achieve a result and might well have blown the survivors off their perch into the river, but they were on an upturned boat at the base of a weir (they had just gone over it) rather than sheltered against downwash inside a car. We elected to illuminate the scene for the fire service with the Nightsun instead, as they were able to get to the survivors with a small boat, which obviously WASN'T possible in this case. We were criticised in the debrief by the fire service for NOT hovering over them on the congested bank and allowing them to tie a rope to the aircraft to take out to the middle of the river (!). A no win situation.

However, perhaps Huntnhound would prefer that no-one ever tries to rescue him or a member of his family if they found themselves in a similar situation?

[helmet fire]

HH,
I dont understand what the dangers are anyway.
What is the danger of doing a hover exit? They are routine.
What is the danger of doing a hover entry? Also routine.
The danger of "rear rotor failure" is negligable over the time it would affect this scenario.
The danger of engine is negligable over the time it would affect this scenario.
The probability of serious injury or death resulting from the almost impossibility of an engine failure/tailrotor failure is remote in itself.
The BO105 is a very controllable helicopter due to its rotorhead.

The danger of being swept away whilst wading out, and having to face all the perils of a swift water rescue is NOT negligable.


So again I have to ask: what dangers are you concerned about?

Just in case you think that hover exits/entries are dangerous (because they look like fun), both procedures are so straight forward I once had a kid (as in young goat) succesfully conduct a hover entry behind the bloke we were picking up out of the bush!! If a goat can do it with no OH&S approved 4 day course, I'm thinking it is not rocket science to any human being. But apparently you know something the goat and I dont...............


PS: I think you forgot to question the lack of hearing protection on the patient. How could you have missed such an obvious peril?

[Giovanni Cento Nove]

Mr Hound............. are you looking forward to the sodomy?

RUM, SODOMY & THE LIFEJACKET


It’s almost 200 years since Lord Nelson’s famous naval victory over the French and Spanish in the Battle of Trafalgar. To kick-start the anniversary celebrations, an actor dressed as Nelson posed for pictures on the River Thames at Greenwich. But before he was allowed to board an RNLI Lifeboat, safety officials made him wear a lifejacket over his 19th century admiral’s uniform.

How would Nelson have fared if he’s been subject to modern health and safety regulations.




You are now on the deck of the recently renamed British Flagship, HMS Appeasement.


"Order the signal. Hardy."

Aye, aye, sir.

Hold on, that’s not what I dictated to the signal officer. What’s the meaning of this?

Sorry, sir?

England expects every person to do his duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or disability. What gobbledegook is this?

Admiralty policy, I’m afraid, sir. We’re an equal opportunities employer now. We had the devil’s own job getting “England” past the censors, lest it be considered rascist.

Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco.

Sorry, sir. All naval vessels have been designated smoke-free working environments.

In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the mainbrace to steel the men before battle.

The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. It’s part of the Government’s policy on binge drinking.

Good heavens. Hardy. I suppose we’d better get on with it. Full speed ahead.

I think you’ll find that there’s a 4 mph speed limit in this stretch of water.

Dammit, man, we are on the eve of the greatest sea fight in history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow’s nest, please.

That won’t be possible, sir.

What?

Health and Safety have closed the crow’s nest, sir. No harness. And they say that rope ladder doesn’t meet regulations. They won’t let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected.

Then get me the ship’s carpenter without delay, Hardy.

He’s busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the fo’c’sle Admiral.

Wheelchair access? I’ve never heard anything so absurd.

Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a barrier-free environment for the differently abled.

Differently abled? I’ve only one arm and one eye and I refuse even to hear mention of the word. I didn’t rise to the rank of admiral by playing the disability card.

Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under-represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency.

Whatever next? Give me a full sail. The salt spray beckons.

A couple of problems there, too, sir. Health and safety won’t let the crew up the rigging without crash helmets. And they don’t want anyone breathing in too much salt – haven’t you seen the adverts?

I’ve never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the men to stand by to engage the enemy.

The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral.

What? This is mutiny.

It’s not that, sir. It’s just that they’re afraid of being charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There’s a couple of legal aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks.

Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?

Actually, sir, we’re not.

We’re not?

No, sir. The Frenchies and Spanish are our European partners now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn’t even be in this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for compensation.

But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil.

I wouldn’t let the ship’s diversity co-ordinator hear you saying that sir. You’ll be up on a disciplinary.

You must consider every man an enemy who speaks ill of your King.

Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age. Now put on your Kevlar vest, it’s the rules.

Don’t tell me – health and safety. Whatever happened to rum sodomy and the lash?

As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu. And there’s a ban on corporal punishment.

What about sodomy?

I believe it’s to be encouraged sir.

In that case – kiss me Hardy.

[Flying Lawyer]

Brilliant. Very funny.

(And, sadly, very true. )

[airborne_artist]

Huntnhound wrote:

The air ambulance in the UK is NOT a search and rescue..nor are the Police

In a civilised society we have a moral duty to do what we can to help our fellow citizens in peril.

Do you want to live in a civilised society? If so, play by the rules!