Air Ambulance rescue (Now incl post by the Paramedic - 9/11)
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Cold Water Rescue
I spotted this Post today and as it seemed to have gone the normal way of going way off the subject to generally bashing everyone's views to death, I pondered whether I should bother.
Well, the following might help others to consider options for the future should they come across similar incidents when out flying or should they be sent as part of an emergency service response.
The UK Police have for some time been concerned about such incidents followng the death of a Fireman that drowned during a cold water rescue incident. As a result, groups of UK emergency service staff, including Police search teams, search managers, Ambulance staff (what level I am not aware of) and also Police Air Ops staff have begun to receive training. The term cold water rescue relates to inland water features, such as small lakes, rivers, canals and other small water features. The original post shows a classic situation that HEMS or Police Air Ops crews could find themselves in.
As a result of this training, we now carry life jackets and throwing lines to give ourselves another option. These are NOT for use in the aicraft, but after landing out nearby. We are then able to don the PPE and use the lines to "contain" the situation until the correct cold water rescue organisation for our area attends. And don't expect the Fire & Rescue Service to do that as many are now withdrawing their water rescue option.
Having been exposed to the training I notice posts talking about "its only 2' feet of water" etc. Experts will talk of a lot less than that to cause drowning. Its the power of the flow that is the danger in these types of incidents. During training I was exposed to this and it makes you think twice and plan to survive. We were taught first about never going into the water. But if you had to, how to cross fast flowing rivers, streams etc, what PPE that must be worn, if you loose your footing, how to deal with being swept away, how to get out the water, if you get to the bank etc. And lots more. I have also seen posts saying that "life jackets", no need for them, water again was only 2' high. Well, once you get washed away, then you will need it and you tire very very quickly.
There are many experts out there that are more qualified to talk in detail about the "what if's" on this incident. I am just someone who has had training in cold water rescues in case I come across this type of incident. And yes, I can sit and analyse the images to talk about what I would have done instead.
However, if you have not had the training or you don't carry the kit - what would you do? - you would do your best at the time. And from the looks of things, they probably did.
I hope that the above might spring some HEMS or Police Air Ops users who have as yet not done anything about looking at other options. Its an eye opener when you go through the training
Well, the following might help others to consider options for the future should they come across similar incidents when out flying or should they be sent as part of an emergency service response.
The UK Police have for some time been concerned about such incidents followng the death of a Fireman that drowned during a cold water rescue incident. As a result, groups of UK emergency service staff, including Police search teams, search managers, Ambulance staff (what level I am not aware of) and also Police Air Ops staff have begun to receive training. The term cold water rescue relates to inland water features, such as small lakes, rivers, canals and other small water features. The original post shows a classic situation that HEMS or Police Air Ops crews could find themselves in.
As a result of this training, we now carry life jackets and throwing lines to give ourselves another option. These are NOT for use in the aicraft, but after landing out nearby. We are then able to don the PPE and use the lines to "contain" the situation until the correct cold water rescue organisation for our area attends. And don't expect the Fire & Rescue Service to do that as many are now withdrawing their water rescue option.
Having been exposed to the training I notice posts talking about "its only 2' feet of water" etc. Experts will talk of a lot less than that to cause drowning. Its the power of the flow that is the danger in these types of incidents. During training I was exposed to this and it makes you think twice and plan to survive. We were taught first about never going into the water. But if you had to, how to cross fast flowing rivers, streams etc, what PPE that must be worn, if you loose your footing, how to deal with being swept away, how to get out the water, if you get to the bank etc. And lots more. I have also seen posts saying that "life jackets", no need for them, water again was only 2' high. Well, once you get washed away, then you will need it and you tire very very quickly.
There are many experts out there that are more qualified to talk in detail about the "what if's" on this incident. I am just someone who has had training in cold water rescues in case I come across this type of incident. And yes, I can sit and analyse the images to talk about what I would have done instead.
However, if you have not had the training or you don't carry the kit - what would you do? - you would do your best at the time. And from the looks of things, they probably did.
I hope that the above might spring some HEMS or Police Air Ops users who have as yet not done anything about looking at other options. Its an eye opener when you go through the training
Last edited by EjectEject; 27th Oct 2004 at 09:56.
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"although I suppose the CAA may raise more than a few eyebrows"
Having found myself in a similar scenario a couple of years ago I found that the CAA, in the guise of our Flight Ops Inspector, did indeed raise an eyebrow and came to visit the following day.
He visited the site of the incident, went through all our paperwork and asked several relevant questions. Once he was happy that we had taken a decision to act as a crew, considered the alternatives, (and tried most of them), and used the aircrafts role equipment to minimize the risk and ensure the safety of all on board and on the ground, he said "Well done" and went on his way.
Got a nice letter from the family of the casualty as well
always a bonus!
"Its a matter for the individual of course"
Actually, No. I truly believe that this is a matter for the whole crew - and unless they were all happy then it wouldn't have happened.
Having found myself in a similar scenario a couple of years ago I found that the CAA, in the guise of our Flight Ops Inspector, did indeed raise an eyebrow and came to visit the following day.
He visited the site of the incident, went through all our paperwork and asked several relevant questions. Once he was happy that we had taken a decision to act as a crew, considered the alternatives, (and tried most of them), and used the aircrafts role equipment to minimize the risk and ensure the safety of all on board and on the ground, he said "Well done" and went on his way.
Got a nice letter from the family of the casualty as well
always a bonus!"Its a matter for the individual of course"
Actually, No. I truly believe that this is a matter for the whole crew - and unless they were all happy then it wouldn't have happened.
Last edited by Fortyodd; 27th Oct 2004 at 11:09.
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Well done guys, good effort - really surprised on this forum how many people are quick to pick holes in a job that was done in reaction to an emergency call !!
How can a prat like HH make such a point after such a successfull rescue? is beyond me. Flying an air ambulance / police helicopter calls for such actions to be considered daily and the pilot is faced daily with such decisions - would any Normal person fly away from such a situation without at least weighing up the odds - Pete B obviously decided in the little time available on the day that this was possible (as it proved it was) That is what he is paid to do - make difficult decisions and live by them
I suggest HH just creeps back into his warm cumfy office and does not stick his nose into areas he is obviously not versed in - ANY EMS pilot worth their salt would probably of done the same on the day - other pilots would let some one die whilst reading the books / asking the CAA to check it is possible - I'm just sorry some bright spark was there with a camera to capture the moment for such types with hind sight to coment on.
How can a prat like HH make such a point after such a successfull rescue? is beyond me. Flying an air ambulance / police helicopter calls for such actions to be considered daily and the pilot is faced daily with such decisions - would any Normal person fly away from such a situation without at least weighing up the odds - Pete B obviously decided in the little time available on the day that this was possible (as it proved it was) That is what he is paid to do - make difficult decisions and live by them
I suggest HH just creeps back into his warm cumfy office and does not stick his nose into areas he is obviously not versed in - ANY EMS pilot worth their salt would probably of done the same on the day - other pilots would let some one die whilst reading the books / asking the CAA to check it is possible - I'm just sorry some bright spark was there with a camera to capture the moment for such types with hind sight to coment on.
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really surprised on this forum how many people are quick to pick holes in a job that was done in reaction to an emergency call !!
Have there been many people picking holes?
There's been overwhelming support for the crew.
Have there been many people picking holes?
There's been overwhelming support for the crew.
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huntnhound mmmm name says it all really. 2-3 ft of fast moving water, hyperthermia me thinks. Our air ambulance and Police support units do an excellent job and are under constant scrutiny by the public and press alike. That is until your cars nicked or your in agony on the side of the motorway and need to get to hospital double quick time.
So whats your point huntnhound? Well done to the crew on that day and to all crews throughout the UK keep it up.
So whats your point huntnhound? Well done to the crew on that day and to all crews throughout the UK keep it up.
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I agree on this TOPIC heliport, but I did say FORUM - just browse and look at all the nit pickings going on - I guess I mixed up my feeling for the whole Forum on the present Topic, whilst reading all the postings. Overall more people are having a go rather than making constructive points.
Be happy for people who do well - It takes 27 muscles to frown, and only 8 to smile!!!
Be happy for people who do well - It takes 27 muscles to frown, and only 8 to smile!!!
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Huntnhound,
So if what these guys did is so bad, presumably they shouldn't have done it So what exactly are you suggesting should have happened?
If they did not do what they did, presumably they land beside the raging torrent and wait for it to subside, so that they can take the body to the mortuary.
Or am I missing something?
In the role of a police observer, you must surely have thought of what you would do with your crew in a similar situation. Are you saying you would simply have videoed the situation for the coroner's court and then flown home??
So if what these guys did is so bad, presumably they shouldn't have done it So what exactly are you suggesting should have happened?
If they did not do what they did, presumably they land beside the raging torrent and wait for it to subside, so that they can take the body to the mortuary.
Or am I missing something?
In the role of a police observer, you must surely have thought of what you would do with your crew in a similar situation. Are you saying you would simply have videoed the situation for the coroner's court and then flown home??
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Excerpt from Teesside Journal news report
A paramedic was hailed as a hero last night after he risked his life to rescue a trapped motorist swept into a raging river.
Air ambulance pilot Peter Barnes and paramedic Kevin Hodgson made the daring rescue at Stanhope Ford, Bishop Auckland, after a man in his 40s tried to cross the river, which was swollen after heavy rain.
The air ambulance crew arrived on the scene at 2pm where they found fire crews struggling to reach the man's Audi estate, which had been swept out into the river and was slowly filling with water.
With the water level reaching the motorist's chest and no time to wait for a helicopter from RAF Boulmer, the paramedics decided to attempt their own rescue - despite having no specialised winch equipment and putting their own lives on the line.
Pilot Peter Barnes kept the helicopter steady about a foot above the car as paramedic Kevin Hodgson lowered himself down onto its roof. He then pulled the motorist out through the window of the car, which could have been swept away at any second.
Mr Hodgson helped the man into the helicopter, which then had to move away.
The pilot then re-positioned himself above the car so Mr Hodgson could climb back in and the helicopter flew off to safety.
Mr Hodgson, 45, of Bishop Auckland, has worked for the North-East Ambulance Service for seven years, but last night said he had never attempted such a dramatic rescue before. The brave father-of-three said:
"You don't think about the danger when you are doing something like that. It is only afterwards that it hits you that you were in real danger. When we arrived we found the man trapped in his car, which had been swept into the river by strong currents and was in danger of being carried away, and fire crews couldn't reach him.
"Water was flooding the car up to the man's chest and he was trapped inside. The fire service had requested a rescue helicopter from RAF Boulmer, but we decided we had to act now before it was too late.
"The currents were very strong and there was a chance that the car could have been swept away at any time, so getting him out of the car quickly was crucial."
Peter Barnes, 41, has been flying for the North-East Ambulance for eight years and has also worked as a stunt pilot in numerous Hollywood films including the latest James Bond and Tomb Raider movies.
He said: "It wasn't a run of the mill rescue. Some quick decisions had to be made and the timing was crucial, but fortunately everything went like clockwork. I've worked on some action movies in my time, but Kevin is a real hero climbing onto the roof of that car - although what the man was doing trying to go across Stanhope Ford, God only knows."
The driver of the car was last night said to be "cold, wet and shaken, but otherwise OK" and did not need to go to hospital.
Editorial in the same newspaper
How crazy do you have to be to attempt to ford the River Wear at Stanhope after several days of persistent rain?
If you are that crazy, would it make any difference that two motorists have already had to be plucked from the Wear at the notorious ford this year - or that large signs now proclaim the river a danger "at any time".
Would the danger that any rescuer would have to put themselves at to save you, should your car get stuck, cross your mind?
For that matter, would the estimated £20,000 cost to the taxpayer of scrambling a rescue helicopter and other emergency services when your fun little trip stopped being fun, slow you down at all as you approached the swirling waters?
For some people, the answer to all the above questions still seems to be "No".
The heroes of yesterday were the paramedics Peter Barnes and Kevin Hodgson, who went a long way beyond the call of duty to hover feet above the water and pull the latest self-imposed victim of the river to safety.
Without them we would be reporting a far grimmer story in the pages of The Journal today.
Unless the warnings are heeded there is a real fear that one day soon we will have to report on a death at Stanhope.
The thousands of people in the region who have helped raise money to support the Air Ambulance appeal are entitled to a feeling of pride this morning.
Let us be clear: The ford is not the only way to cross the river below Stanhope. A diversion leads to a bridge less than half a mile away. The fact the ford is still open to traffic at all is largely a matter of tradition and the sometimes useful common law surrounding rights of way.
But to date this year three separate vehicles have come to grief there.
If the good sense of drivers cannot be relied upon, then the ford must close.
Also lots of favourable publicity in the national newspapers which is good for the industry. 
River rescue heroes hailed
A paramedic was hailed as a hero last night after he risked his life to rescue a trapped motorist swept into a raging river.
Air ambulance pilot Peter Barnes and paramedic Kevin Hodgson made the daring rescue at Stanhope Ford, Bishop Auckland, after a man in his 40s tried to cross the river, which was swollen after heavy rain.
The air ambulance crew arrived on the scene at 2pm where they found fire crews struggling to reach the man's Audi estate, which had been swept out into the river and was slowly filling with water.
With the water level reaching the motorist's chest and no time to wait for a helicopter from RAF Boulmer, the paramedics decided to attempt their own rescue - despite having no specialised winch equipment and putting their own lives on the line.
Pilot Peter Barnes kept the helicopter steady about a foot above the car as paramedic Kevin Hodgson lowered himself down onto its roof. He then pulled the motorist out through the window of the car, which could have been swept away at any second.
Mr Hodgson helped the man into the helicopter, which then had to move away.
The pilot then re-positioned himself above the car so Mr Hodgson could climb back in and the helicopter flew off to safety.
Mr Hodgson, 45, of Bishop Auckland, has worked for the North-East Ambulance Service for seven years, but last night said he had never attempted such a dramatic rescue before. The brave father-of-three said:
"You don't think about the danger when you are doing something like that. It is only afterwards that it hits you that you were in real danger. When we arrived we found the man trapped in his car, which had been swept into the river by strong currents and was in danger of being carried away, and fire crews couldn't reach him.
"Water was flooding the car up to the man's chest and he was trapped inside. The fire service had requested a rescue helicopter from RAF Boulmer, but we decided we had to act now before it was too late.
"The currents were very strong and there was a chance that the car could have been swept away at any time, so getting him out of the car quickly was crucial."
Peter Barnes, 41, has been flying for the North-East Ambulance for eight years and has also worked as a stunt pilot in numerous Hollywood films including the latest James Bond and Tomb Raider movies.
He said: "It wasn't a run of the mill rescue. Some quick decisions had to be made and the timing was crucial, but fortunately everything went like clockwork. I've worked on some action movies in my time, but Kevin is a real hero climbing onto the roof of that car - although what the man was doing trying to go across Stanhope Ford, God only knows."
The driver of the car was last night said to be "cold, wet and shaken, but otherwise OK" and did not need to go to hospital.
Now the ford must close
How crazy do you have to be to attempt to ford the River Wear at Stanhope after several days of persistent rain?
If you are that crazy, would it make any difference that two motorists have already had to be plucked from the Wear at the notorious ford this year - or that large signs now proclaim the river a danger "at any time".
Would the danger that any rescuer would have to put themselves at to save you, should your car get stuck, cross your mind?
For that matter, would the estimated £20,000 cost to the taxpayer of scrambling a rescue helicopter and other emergency services when your fun little trip stopped being fun, slow you down at all as you approached the swirling waters?
For some people, the answer to all the above questions still seems to be "No".
The heroes of yesterday were the paramedics Peter Barnes and Kevin Hodgson, who went a long way beyond the call of duty to hover feet above the water and pull the latest self-imposed victim of the river to safety.
Without them we would be reporting a far grimmer story in the pages of The Journal today.
Unless the warnings are heeded there is a real fear that one day soon we will have to report on a death at Stanhope.
The thousands of people in the region who have helped raise money to support the Air Ambulance appeal are entitled to a feeling of pride this morning.
Let us be clear: The ford is not the only way to cross the river below Stanhope. A diversion leads to a bridge less than half a mile away. The fact the ford is still open to traffic at all is largely a matter of tradition and the sometimes useful common law surrounding rights of way.
But to date this year three separate vehicles have come to grief there.
If the good sense of drivers cannot be relied upon, then the ford must close.
Senis Semper Fidelis
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HH
Forgive the question, but you do seem terribly Pissed off at this particular rescue, and in turn it seems you are being less than generous in your comments towards other pilots, now whilst you have many hours as an observer you will of course have some knowlege of airborne situations, but surely that doesnt give you the right to make such black and white judgemental comments as you have.
Have you been at odds with some Pilot somewhere in your employment and if so is this why we are reading your acerbic comments?
Peter R-B
Vfr
Forgive the question, but you do seem terribly Pissed off at this particular rescue, and in turn it seems you are being less than generous in your comments towards other pilots, now whilst you have many hours as an observer you will of course have some knowlege of airborne situations, but surely that doesnt give you the right to make such black and white judgemental comments as you have.
Have you been at odds with some Pilot somewhere in your employment and if so is this why we are reading your acerbic comments?
Peter R-B
Vfr
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Mr Hodgson helped the man into the helicopter, which then had to move away.
The pilot then re-positioned himself above the car so Mr Hodgson could climb back in and the helicopter flew off to safety.
The pilot then re-positioned himself above the car so Mr Hodgson could climb back in and the helicopter flew off to safety.
And congratulations to Pete
more sleepless nights to look forward to.
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Well with all these wonderful points of view and given in such a constructive manner I have to say I was wrong.
Ive changed my mind and look forward to first chance to go and do the same sort of job
Ive changed my mind and look forward to first chance to go and do the same sort of job
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Hunt and hound
I have to say having read your points in this thread I would worry if I knew you where a member of my team
When it hits the fan i would like to know that all my team where behind my dicisions 100% and that i knew how far my crew would go. even though you say you have a changed opinion.
I wonder really
Again well done to the lads
Sincerely
Bravo 99
I have to say having read your points in this thread I would worry if I knew you where a member of my team
When it hits the fan i would like to know that all my team where behind my dicisions 100% and that i knew how far my crew would go. even though you say you have a changed opinion.
I wonder really
Again well done to the lads
Sincerely
Bravo 99
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Bravo99 - I would hope that this would be a crew decision, rather than to expect your crew to blindly follow your decision "100%"
HH - with all those hours aren't you for tenure yet?
HH - with all those hours aren't you for tenure yet?
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"The Audi owner now faces charges of careless driving"
Really? How would anyone know?
This assertion is about as reliable as the rest of the Mail's output.
Really? How would anyone know?
This assertion is about as reliable as the rest of the Mail's output.
The Fresh Start Club
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Reading this post I've wondered if I could have done what Kevin Hodgson did. I reckon I could and would, but the fact of the matter is that I won't know for sure until the situation presents itself to me, if indeed it does.
What I do know for sure is that before anything like this was attempted, the crew would have discussed other solutions, and if none were suitable or possible, that each person on board would have an equal right to veto the final course of action.
The pilot should not make the decision alone and nor should the observer/paramedic. It is a crew/team decision, and I know that the guys I work with (not sexist they are all guys) would stand by that TEAM decision, no matter which way it went. I refuse to believe that both the people involved here did not discuss their course of action prior to taking it, and I am sure that neither would be reckless as to their own safety. The fact that they were prepared to do what they did to save a life gets my, and long may it be so.
In the aviation/medical/law enforcement environments we are often damned with near perfect hindsight, but we should never let that affect a decision to save life. The only factors that should be considered are those available at the time. What came first litigation or health and safety. You may call me a cynic, but health and safety is not really about making us safer, it is about reducing costly legal settlements. (Thanks to AB - he'll understand!)
There will always be risk, it cannot be avoided. Our jobs are to assess it and manage it, but please let's not refuse to make decisions because of it, or any likely fallout IF it goes wrong.
For the record I have 1000 hours as an observer and just 9 towards my PPL(H), but my decision to act would not be based on either of those statistics.
Well done to both the guys involved.
WP.
What I do know for sure is that before anything like this was attempted, the crew would have discussed other solutions, and if none were suitable or possible, that each person on board would have an equal right to veto the final course of action.
The pilot should not make the decision alone and nor should the observer/paramedic. It is a crew/team decision, and I know that the guys I work with (not sexist they are all guys) would stand by that TEAM decision, no matter which way it went. I refuse to believe that both the people involved here did not discuss their course of action prior to taking it, and I am sure that neither would be reckless as to their own safety. The fact that they were prepared to do what they did to save a life gets my
, and long may it be so.In the aviation/medical/law enforcement environments we are often damned with near perfect hindsight, but we should never let that affect a decision to save life. The only factors that should be considered are those available at the time. What came first litigation or health and safety. You may call me a cynic, but health and safety is not really about making us safer, it is about reducing costly legal settlements. (Thanks to AB - he'll understand!)
There will always be risk, it cannot be avoided. Our jobs are to assess it and manage it, but please let's not refuse to make decisions because of it, or any likely fallout IF it goes wrong.
For the record I have 1000 hours as an observer and just 9 towards my PPL(H), but my decision to act would not be based on either of those statistics.
Well done to both the guys involved.
WP.
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U_R
From what I hear from a very reliable source, the Mail has probably got it right.
The police at the scene weren't too impressed by the driver trying to use the ford when the river was obviously flooded and were seen making their views known to him.
Whether anything actually comes of it, time will tell.
From what I hear from a very reliable source, the Mail has probably got it right.
The police at the scene weren't too impressed by the driver trying to use the ford when the river was obviously flooded and were seen making their views known to him.
Whether anything actually comes of it, time will tell.