North Sea Jigsaw
seems to me like some people thought they would be able to walk into these jobs and are now miffed that they are being rejected.
miitary training, good as it is, is not the only way.
miitary training, good as it is, is not the only way.
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serf
I think many of the concerns are real and not based on being "miffed".
Either the Jigsaw crews are competent SAR crews or they are not. It is like being pregnant, either you are, or you are not. You can't be half pregnant!
For a winchman dangling on a wire over a pitching deck, either the commander is competent or he/she is not. Half competent will result in an accident or an unsuccessful rescue.
ri
I think many of the concerns are real and not based on being "miffed".
Either the Jigsaw crews are competent SAR crews or they are not. It is like being pregnant, either you are, or you are not. You can't be half pregnant!
For a winchman dangling on a wire over a pitching deck, either the commander is competent or he/she is not. Half competent will result in an accident or an unsuccessful rescue.
ri
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Running in, you ask a question.
Then you answer it yourself!
What a presumptuous fellow you are 
Wiz
Have you ever tried to do manual wet winching at night, or even a basic deck?
Thought not!
Wiz
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I had the luck to be on board a SAR helicopter called to rescue a fifty year old man from a rig in the north sea roughly an hours transit from base.
The casualty had suffered suspected multiple heart attacks and was at the end of a .5km long platform.
we arrived at the overhead to be told that we were not to winch the casualty from the walkway connecting the rig complez.
we were told that the casualty was to be evacuated via a Dauphin that was on the far side of the complex.
the cas had to endure a transit up and down stairs............over a long distance...........and then pulled up the vertical steps to the helideck.
whilst this was going on i watched as the Dauphin crew re-rolled the seats of the aircraft to take the cas to shore.
said cas then boarded the a/c without a defib or paramedic and was flown to shore......
Assistance was offered to the rig but was refused over and over again......all this after we had made a 45 min transit to pick the guy up?????
our only thoughts were that the company was trying to either reduce costs or incident signals?????
Ralph
The casualty had suffered suspected multiple heart attacks and was at the end of a .5km long platform.
we arrived at the overhead to be told that we were not to winch the casualty from the walkway connecting the rig complez.
we were told that the casualty was to be evacuated via a Dauphin that was on the far side of the complex.
the cas had to endure a transit up and down stairs............over a long distance...........and then pulled up the vertical steps to the helideck.
whilst this was going on i watched as the Dauphin crew re-rolled the seats of the aircraft to take the cas to shore.
said cas then boarded the a/c without a defib or paramedic and was flown to shore......
Assistance was offered to the rig but was refused over and over again......all this after we had made a 45 min transit to pick the guy up?????
our only thoughts were that the company was trying to either reduce costs or incident signals?????
Ralph
Nigerian In Law
Could that have been a cost related decision that backfired ? After all, the aircraft had already mobilised. Surely an incident report would have had to be raised, even if it was internal whether or not the guy was recovered by a SAR crew or the Dauphin ?
Mountainman - he asked how they planned to keep the aircraft deiced during the winter so that they could achieve their 10 minute readiness state - the reply was that it was an engineering issue but gave no indication as to how it would be addressed.
He also asked how the aircraft would be kept pointing into wind in an area that could go from 40 kts in one direction to 50 kts in another in a very short period - the answer was the same but hinted that an engineer would be sent out with an electric handler/dolly in the 50 kt wind to move it. I don't know how many engineers will be on the rig to support the helicopter but I will be surprised if it is more than 2.
As for the HSE requirements, 21 wet survivors from a dark and stormy sea in 30 minutes? Not without a very well trained, practised and fit winchman and even then he'd be f**ked at the end of it and certainly in no shape to give medical assistance. Even doing them as double lifts from the comparative safety of a large dinghy would take 30 minutes.
He also asked how the aircraft would be kept pointing into wind in an area that could go from 40 kts in one direction to 50 kts in another in a very short period - the answer was the same but hinted that an engineer would be sent out with an electric handler/dolly in the 50 kt wind to move it. I don't know how many engineers will be on the rig to support the helicopter but I will be surprised if it is more than 2.
As for the HSE requirements, 21 wet survivors from a dark and stormy sea in 30 minutes? Not without a very well trained, practised and fit winchman and even then he'd be f**ked at the end of it and certainly in no shape to give medical assistance. Even doing them as double lifts from the comparative safety of a large dinghy would take 30 minutes.
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I have heard similar rumours to 2STROPS about the standard of pilots. Evidently some of the Bolkow Captains from the Lighthouse and Scatsta operations are going to be SAR Commanders as they have "underslung load winching experience and also able to winch pilots (the sea types) on vessels".
Hmmm, from what I can remember commercial winching is very regulated and restricted compared to what is allowable for SAR. If my memory serves me correctly, commercial winching has to take place at a height no higher than 10ft and there must be no obstructions laterally for 15-20ft. It's been a while so I could be wrong.
Hope some chap from the CAA with SAR experience is going to keep a close eye on this project. The more rumours I hear, the more I think it is a big fudge by BP to their workforce, and nothing like was envisaged from BP blurb I saw. There are now too many rumours for some of them not to be true.
RK
Hmmm, from what I can remember commercial winching is very regulated and restricted compared to what is allowable for SAR. If my memory serves me correctly, commercial winching has to take place at a height no higher than 10ft and there must be no obstructions laterally for 15-20ft. It's been a while so I could be wrong.
Hope some chap from the CAA with SAR experience is going to keep a close eye on this project. The more rumours I hear, the more I think it is a big fudge by BP to their workforce, and nothing like was envisaged from BP blurb I saw. There are now too many rumours for some of them not to be true.
RK
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Thanks for the reply Crab.
I know the trial team came up with solutions to a lot of the "issues" that arise when you base an aircraft offshore without protection, but I don't suppose they will be too forthcoming with any of them now.
I have to agree with Night Watchman, the offshore workforce must be wondering what they have agreed to.
The Jigsaw trial guys were used to literally "sell" the concept to the people offshore. A lot of the trial flights were done next to BP platforms, often with that platform's safety rep on board to observe how things were done, and I understand that the crews were then expected to shut down on the deck and give a presentation on what they had just achieved.
As for the 30 minute standard, I do know that all the backseat crew on the trial were qualified and experienced winch operators. I beleave the idea was that they could swap roles halfway through the evolution if the acting winchman became tired, but I'll stop now in case I am accused of nurse bashing again.
I know the trial team came up with solutions to a lot of the "issues" that arise when you base an aircraft offshore without protection, but I don't suppose they will be too forthcoming with any of them now.
I have to agree with Night Watchman, the offshore workforce must be wondering what they have agreed to.
The Jigsaw trial guys were used to literally "sell" the concept to the people offshore. A lot of the trial flights were done next to BP platforms, often with that platform's safety rep on board to observe how things were done, and I understand that the crews were then expected to shut down on the deck and give a presentation on what they had just achieved.
As for the 30 minute standard, I do know that all the backseat crew on the trial were qualified and experienced winch operators. I beleave the idea was that they could swap roles halfway through the evolution if the acting winchman became tired, but I'll stop now in case I am accused of nurse bashing again.
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I heard a very interesting rumour a few days ago regarding the the chief pilot of the Jigsaw trial.
Apparently he's been approached by Bond and asked if he would "jump ship" and set up their SAR operation for them.
As I know him personally ( He's currently the CP of the SAR operation that Bristows set up in the Netherlands with the original Jigsaw trial aircraft) I phoned him and asked him if this was true.
He didn't confirm or deny this, but his reply was brief and typically diplomatic, and I'll quote him (with his permission I might add)
"I have no plans to leave Holland or Bristows"
What does that say about BP's plans, and Bond's need to get the right people?
Surely Bond would have pulled out all the stops to get him, if for no other reason than to give credibility to the implementation phase?
To my knowledge, NOBODY from the original trial team is leaving Bristows to join Bond
Perhaps he has developed a taste for windmills, cheese and ham, chocolate sprinkles and a complete lack of scenery, but I definately got the impression that he was not the least bit keen on Bond's slant on SAR.
Interesting........
Apparently he's been approached by Bond and asked if he would "jump ship" and set up their SAR operation for them.
As I know him personally ( He's currently the CP of the SAR operation that Bristows set up in the Netherlands with the original Jigsaw trial aircraft) I phoned him and asked him if this was true.
He didn't confirm or deny this, but his reply was brief and typically diplomatic, and I'll quote him (with his permission I might add)
"I have no plans to leave Holland or Bristows"
What does that say about BP's plans, and Bond's need to get the right people?
Surely Bond would have pulled out all the stops to get him, if for no other reason than to give credibility to the implementation phase?
To my knowledge, NOBODY from the original trial team is leaving Bristows to join Bond
Perhaps he has developed a taste for windmills, cheese and ham, chocolate sprinkles and a complete lack of scenery, but I definately got the impression that he was not the least bit keen on Bond's slant on SAR.
Interesting........
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Mountainman
Do you know if any of the Jigsaw trials team (now Den Helder) crewmen have been approached by Bond? From what you say, it would seem that if they have been approached then they aren't planning to leave Bristow either!
I ask because Bond stated that those who were selected for interview would be notified by the end of October and as yet I don't know of anyone who has.
Any info................??
Do you know if any of the Jigsaw trials team (now Den Helder) crewmen have been approached by Bond? From what you say, it would seem that if they have been approached then they aren't planning to leave Bristow either!
I ask because Bond stated that those who were selected for interview would be notified by the end of October and as yet I don't know of anyone who has.
Any info................??
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Hi Juan Smore,
I've just checked with my crewmen sources, and as far as they are aware, one of the ex trial crewmen now in Den Helder was approached and wasn't interested, one has applied and hasn't heard anything and one has just left the unit to go to Portland (still Bristows).
Since my last post I've also heard that the CP was offered big bucks to swap cap badges which is contrary to what Nig' Ex'pt Outlaw says.......who knows?
Would anyone like to confirm that Bond are now talking about slashing the offshore allowances?
If they are, then I wouldn't be surprised as they have a track record of doing this.
When they took over the Irish SAR units from Irish Helicopters ( Bristows in all but name) they promised the staff the world if they joined them and promptly denied everything (Baldric) when they did !
Maybe not so "new" Bond after all.
I've just checked with my crewmen sources, and as far as they are aware, one of the ex trial crewmen now in Den Helder was approached and wasn't interested, one has applied and hasn't heard anything and one has just left the unit to go to Portland (still Bristows).
Since my last post I've also heard that the CP was offered big bucks to swap cap badges which is contrary to what Nig' Ex'pt Outlaw says.......who knows?
Would anyone like to confirm that Bond are now talking about slashing the offshore allowances?
If they are, then I wouldn't be surprised as they have a track record of doing this.
When they took over the Irish SAR units from Irish Helicopters ( Bristows in all but name) they promised the staff the world if they joined them and promptly denied everything (Baldric) when they did !
Maybe not so "new" Bond after all.
Nigerian In Law
Montainman, I stand (or sit) corrected, wasn't aware he'd been offered big dosh to jump ship, thought he'd be getting the standard rate with a small CP allowance which is fairly standard practice in the oilpatch (the amount is never enough to compensate for the resulting brain damage !!).
Until the full policy/conditions of service etc are known and in writing it doesn't seem like a particularly prudent move yet....................
Until the full policy/conditions of service etc are known and in writing it doesn't seem like a particularly prudent move yet....................
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Mountainman
Many thanks for posting the info so quickly; you must be at work! If the Den Helder CP & crewman weren't interested (apart from personal reasons) then maybe it speaks volumes about what is or isn't going on up there.
And the offshore rates should be a large part of the attraction of the job, not a deterrent!
We wait and see with interest.
Many thanks for posting the info so quickly; you must be at work! If the Den Helder CP & crewman weren't interested (apart from personal reasons) then maybe it speaks volumes about what is or isn't going on up there.
And the offshore rates should be a large part of the attraction of the job, not a deterrent!
We wait and see with interest.
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Reading between the lines, Bond is not going out of its way to attract experienced SAR people. Also from what crab said they don't like being asked difficult questions!
Do they know what they are doing?
Will the CAA & HSE roll over and let Bond do their version of "SAR"?
Do they know what they are doing?
Will the CAA & HSE roll over and let Bond do their version of "SAR"?
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Prehaps there lords and masters at bond and BP should read the citation for the recent SAR award bestowed on an RN crew in cornwall.
A real SAR outfit who knows what they are doing!!!
A real SAR outfit who knows what they are doing!!!