North Sea Jigsaw
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Jetboxer
At no time did I infer that low cost meant that Bond are giving a second class service, in fact if they have any sense they will be bending over backwards to please the customer at the moment. Let's hope that BP wont be asking them to bend over forwards in the near future
I think it's common knowledge that most of the pilots that went across the runway were fairly low down on the seniority list as regards the 'big picture' within Scotia so whether they were at risk or not is a moot point. Having said that, Bond have acquired some high quality pilots from Scotia.
My main point has always been that pilots should not expect huge salaries to work offshore on the Jigsaw project. Perhaps they can attract ex-mil guys with a pension behind them although they in turn might not be keen to sit in prison - or as some people call it - offshore for half of their working life.
Keep smiling
Wiz
ps "More advanced Nav kit" does not methinks in this case mean "better Nav kit" - just a rumour but then again this is a rumour network!
At no time did I infer that low cost meant that Bond are giving a second class service, in fact if they have any sense they will be bending over backwards to please the customer at the moment. Let's hope that BP wont be asking them to bend over forwards in the near future
I think it's common knowledge that most of the pilots that went across the runway were fairly low down on the seniority list as regards the 'big picture' within Scotia so whether they were at risk or not is a moot point. Having said that, Bond have acquired some high quality pilots from Scotia.
My main point has always been that pilots should not expect huge salaries to work offshore on the Jigsaw project. Perhaps they can attract ex-mil guys with a pension behind them although they in turn might not be keen to sit in prison - or as some people call it - offshore for half of their working life.
Keep smiling
Wiz
ps "More advanced Nav kit" does not methinks in this case mean "better Nav kit" - just a rumour but then again this is a rumour network!
Join Date: Apr 2003
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A couple of points on Bond's recruitment.
Firstly, the ad is titled "We're Headhunting". To me that implies they know who they want - they might even have a list of names. I am certain that everyone (commanders and winchoperators) they employ will have substantial SAR experience. The wording in that advent will have been adjusted to satisfy the law.
Secondly BP will almost certainly want to see CVs of those in key positions. In other words it might well be the case that BP have the final say on who's who.
There is no doubt that Bond will have the right amount of experience in at least two of the four seats. What worries me is that the winchmen won't. I hope those going for that job are very aware of what being a winchman means and more importantly how much the Mil and Civvy winchmen are being paid. Don't sell yourselves short!
Firstly, the ad is titled "We're Headhunting". To me that implies they know who they want - they might even have a list of names. I am certain that everyone (commanders and winchoperators) they employ will have substantial SAR experience. The wording in that advent will have been adjusted to satisfy the law.
Secondly BP will almost certainly want to see CVs of those in key positions. In other words it might well be the case that BP have the final say on who's who.
There is no doubt that Bond will have the right amount of experience in at least two of the four seats. What worries me is that the winchmen won't. I hope those going for that job are very aware of what being a winchman means and more importantly how much the Mil and Civvy winchmen are being paid. Don't sell yourselves short!
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The following is copied from www.flightinternational.com for AllyPally
Following the award of one of the largest oil and gas industry crew change support contracts in the world, Bond Offshore Helicopters has been awarded a further significant long term contract for the provision of Search and Rescue services. This new 10 year contract requires two additional AS332L2 Super Puma helicopters which will be fully equipped to support 24 hour/7 day week Search and Rescue operations, aircraft being based offshore in the central North Sea. This contract requires highly motivated aviation professionals and therefore applications are invited from those who meet the following requirements:
A JAA/UK ATPL(H) with substantial experience in an offshore commercial, military or coastguard role. Experience at Search and Rescue or public transport hoisting operations is desirable. Training positions may be available for those pilots who have had significant SAR instructing experience. Flying experience must include not less than 1500 hours as pilot in command of helicopters including a minimum of 500 hours on multi-crew twin-turbine types.
A JAA Instrument Rating (Helicopters) is desirable but training may be provided for suitable applicants.
This SAR operation requires personnel to be both offshore and Shetland based for periods of up to 15 days at a time and the ability for all staff to co-operate closely with the client on site is considered an essential element of this operation.
In order to achieve a flexible and integrated workforce it is the Company's preference that employees reside within commuting distance of Aberdeen Airport, as from time to time, there may be a requirement for SAR staff to reassign to Aberdeen-based operations.
All applicants must have the right to work and live in the UK without restriction.
It is anticipated that employment for these positions will commence the 1st quarter of 2005.
In order to assist in personnel assessment and suitability, applications for any of these positions can only be accepted on a Company form that should be requested from the email address given.
Following the award of one of the largest oil and gas industry crew change support contracts in the world, Bond Offshore Helicopters has been awarded a further significant long term contract for the provision of Search and Rescue services. This new 10 year contract requires two additional AS332L2 Super Puma helicopters which will be fully equipped to support 24 hour/7 day week Search and Rescue operations, aircraft being based offshore in the central North Sea. This contract requires highly motivated aviation professionals and therefore applications are invited from those who meet the following requirements:
A JAA/UK ATPL(H) with substantial experience in an offshore commercial, military or coastguard role. Experience at Search and Rescue or public transport hoisting operations is desirable. Training positions may be available for those pilots who have had significant SAR instructing experience. Flying experience must include not less than 1500 hours as pilot in command of helicopters including a minimum of 500 hours on multi-crew twin-turbine types.
A JAA Instrument Rating (Helicopters) is desirable but training may be provided for suitable applicants.
This SAR operation requires personnel to be both offshore and Shetland based for periods of up to 15 days at a time and the ability for all staff to co-operate closely with the client on site is considered an essential element of this operation.
In order to achieve a flexible and integrated workforce it is the Company's preference that employees reside within commuting distance of Aberdeen Airport, as from time to time, there may be a requirement for SAR staff to reassign to Aberdeen-based operations.
All applicants must have the right to work and live in the UK without restriction.
It is anticipated that employment for these positions will commence the 1st quarter of 2005.
In order to assist in personnel assessment and suitability, applications for any of these positions can only be accepted on a Company form that should be requested from the email address given.
Join Date: May 2004
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Crashondeck,
You said
"Firstly, the ad is titled "We're Headhunting". To me that implies they know who they want - they might even have a list of names. I am certain that everyone (commanders and winchoperators) they employ will have substantial SAR experience. The wording in that advent will have been adjusted to satisfy the law".
They might know who they want, but why have they spent a few thousand £s on an Ad? Perhaps their headhunting has failed.
Is it illegal to say they want competent, experienced SAR commanders?
I agree about the winchmen. They are brave skilled men who deserve to be paid at least as much as the pilots, will exparamedics be any good at night in a force 10? Some might, but do they know what they are letting themselves in for?
With rumours circulating about military SAR being civilianised in the near future, eg Culdrose, will military pilots sell up and move north in the coming months or wait and see?
You said
"Firstly, the ad is titled "We're Headhunting". To me that implies they know who they want - they might even have a list of names. I am certain that everyone (commanders and winchoperators) they employ will have substantial SAR experience. The wording in that advent will have been adjusted to satisfy the law".
They might know who they want, but why have they spent a few thousand £s on an Ad? Perhaps their headhunting has failed.
Is it illegal to say they want competent, experienced SAR commanders?
I agree about the winchmen. They are brave skilled men who deserve to be paid at least as much as the pilots, will exparamedics be any good at night in a force 10? Some might, but do they know what they are letting themselves in for?
With rumours circulating about military SAR being civilianised in the near future, eg Culdrose, will military pilots sell up and move north in the coming months or wait and see?
Latest I heard is that Mil SAR is at the moment safe..so don't count on having a surplus of Mil SAR bouys knocking on the door...unless they make us redundant in September...but the RAF is short of helo guys...perhaps we'll retread the soon to be jobless Jag mates????????????
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Now it seems that the Bond Jigsaw aircraft will also be performing air ambulance in Shetland.
I wonder how that will fit in with the offshore safety case. If an aircraft ditches whilst they are on ambulance duties are they going to take the pregnant mother to the scene or drop her off first??
Full Story
http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/pages...e_contract.htm
Edited version
Gama have said they will operate two EC 135 Eurocopter helicopters out of Glasgow and Inverness, along with two pressurised fixed wing King Air 200c aircraft out of Glasgow and Aberdeen. These aircraft will be able to handle adverse weather conditions more effectively than the current Islander fixed wing aircraft which are not pressurised.
Further support would be made available from the Super Puma search and rescue helicopter operated by oil company BP out of Scatsta airport, in Shetland. Existing support from the Ministry of Defence and the coastguard will continue.
I wonder how that will fit in with the offshore safety case. If an aircraft ditches whilst they are on ambulance duties are they going to take the pregnant mother to the scene or drop her off first??
Full Story
http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/pages...e_contract.htm
Edited version
Gama have said they will operate two EC 135 Eurocopter helicopters out of Glasgow and Inverness, along with two pressurised fixed wing King Air 200c aircraft out of Glasgow and Aberdeen. These aircraft will be able to handle adverse weather conditions more effectively than the current Islander fixed wing aircraft which are not pressurised.
Further support would be made available from the Super Puma search and rescue helicopter operated by oil company BP out of Scatsta airport, in Shetland. Existing support from the Ministry of Defence and the coastguard will continue.
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This jigsaw job sounds like a rather interesting job with all the right toys to do it properly. Will there be a great demand to work in the environment? are there going to be a lot of takers for the posts offered?
Any thoughts on these questions
Any thoughts on these questions
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I have heard that they have finished interviewing the potential SAR Commanders and will start on the crewmen shortly. Co-pilots will be interviewed in early 2005.
Apparently, despite several applications from current UK Coastguard SAR Commanders and Jigsaw Trial SAR Commanders (SAR current on the L2) none of them appear to have been interviewed. Is it because they all work for Bristow, the same company providing the SAR Mods for the Bond L2's?
Conspiracy theories on standby..
Apparently, despite several applications from current UK Coastguard SAR Commanders and Jigsaw Trial SAR Commanders (SAR current on the L2) none of them appear to have been interviewed. Is it because they all work for Bristow, the same company providing the SAR Mods for the Bond L2's?
Conspiracy theories on standby..
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Where would pprune be without the conspiracy theorists!
From a rear crew update, Bond are busy sorting out the large numbers of applicants as we speak and I was told they have got them down to a shortlist already and are hoping to have interviews and decisions made by Christmas.
As for talk I've read elsewhere about hiring firefighters etc., instead of qualified rearcrew, thats rubbish. Bond wouldn't do it just to save a quid and the oil companies will certainly not let it happen. For years oil companies and government agencies putting out tenders for contracts such as these, have had strict conditions on what pilots could work on these contracts, as in flying hours and experience in the role. This has extended to rearcrew now and so it should.
Still, would like to hear from anyone in the know on what kind of money they are paying the rearcrews. I've heard it's very good, but you'll be on a contract, so no super, sick leave etc. Anyone?
From a rear crew update, Bond are busy sorting out the large numbers of applicants as we speak and I was told they have got them down to a shortlist already and are hoping to have interviews and decisions made by Christmas.
As for talk I've read elsewhere about hiring firefighters etc., instead of qualified rearcrew, thats rubbish. Bond wouldn't do it just to save a quid and the oil companies will certainly not let it happen. For years oil companies and government agencies putting out tenders for contracts such as these, have had strict conditions on what pilots could work on these contracts, as in flying hours and experience in the role. This has extended to rearcrew now and so it should.
Still, would like to hear from anyone in the know on what kind of money they are paying the rearcrews. I've heard it's very good, but you'll be on a contract, so no super, sick leave etc. Anyone?
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What's wrong with firefighters?
I'd heard that Bond are going to use paramedics as winchmen, and I can't see the differance.
Why not cut to the chase and go down to the local supermarket and employ all the checkout girls...........they'd be cheap!
PS This is not in any way intended to be insulting towards checkout girls (sorry......"persons" ) I shop at supermarkets frequently, and the staff are always very professional.............I just wouldn't want to be rescued from the water by them....... unless it's from a puddle in the car park.
I'd heard that Bond are going to use paramedics as winchmen, and I can't see the differance.
Why not cut to the chase and go down to the local supermarket and employ all the checkout girls...........they'd be cheap!
PS This is not in any way intended to be insulting towards checkout girls (sorry......"persons" ) I shop at supermarkets frequently, and the staff are always very professional.............I just wouldn't want to be rescued from the water by them....... unless it's from a puddle in the car park.
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Winchop
As for talk I've read elsewhere about hiring firefighters etc., instead of qualified rearcrew, thats rubbish. Bond wouldn't do it just to save a quid and the oil companies will certainly not let it happen.
You talk about Bond hiring qualified rearcrew and yet they haven't interviewed any of the current Coastguard or L2 SAR Commanders. Surely if they wanted qualified people they would at least have interviewed some of the above? Especially with their current North Sea and Atlantic operational experience.
And why are they talking about employing Air Ambulance paramedics who have probably never been winched in their life or pulled a man out of the water in a flat calm sea, never mind a high sea state.
All all sounds like Bond/BP spin to me.
For years oil companies and government agencies putting out tenders for contracts such as these, have had strict conditions on what pilots could work on these contracts, as in flying hours and experience in the role. This has extended to rearcrew now and so it should.
You make this sound like like it's a new thing. More spin? It's not, the strict conditions you talk about have been around for years for both pilots and aircrew. All the UK Coastguard contracts have had it since the start of them (15 odd years ago), as did, I believe, the original Jigsaw Trial contract! Apparently BP insisted on aircrew with a great depth of experience to help sell the concept to their workers. Interestingly enough none of them, to date, have had any reply from Bond with regard to their aplications. I'm sure the military have similar conditions on their aircrew personnel too.
Mountainman
Are you mad? Checkout girls? You haven't really thought that argument through.
Think of the discount vouchers you can get off your next weekly shop!
As for talk I've read elsewhere about hiring firefighters etc., instead of qualified rearcrew, thats rubbish. Bond wouldn't do it just to save a quid and the oil companies will certainly not let it happen.
You talk about Bond hiring qualified rearcrew and yet they haven't interviewed any of the current Coastguard or L2 SAR Commanders. Surely if they wanted qualified people they would at least have interviewed some of the above? Especially with their current North Sea and Atlantic operational experience.
And why are they talking about employing Air Ambulance paramedics who have probably never been winched in their life or pulled a man out of the water in a flat calm sea, never mind a high sea state.
All all sounds like Bond/BP spin to me.
For years oil companies and government agencies putting out tenders for contracts such as these, have had strict conditions on what pilots could work on these contracts, as in flying hours and experience in the role. This has extended to rearcrew now and so it should.
You make this sound like like it's a new thing. More spin? It's not, the strict conditions you talk about have been around for years for both pilots and aircrew. All the UK Coastguard contracts have had it since the start of them (15 odd years ago), as did, I believe, the original Jigsaw Trial contract! Apparently BP insisted on aircrew with a great depth of experience to help sell the concept to their workers. Interestingly enough none of them, to date, have had any reply from Bond with regard to their aplications. I'm sure the military have similar conditions on their aircrew personnel too.
Mountainman
Are you mad? Checkout girls? You haven't really thought that argument through.
Think of the discount vouchers you can get off your next weekly shop!
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Intelligence suggests that those crewman applicants who have won an interview will be contacted by the end of October.
Hopefully commonsense will prevail for the crewmen and only those trained and experienced will get selected instead of non-aviators (the thought of sharing accommodation during those long winter nights with some check-out girls in possession of helmet bag-fulls of Stella discount vouchers does have it’s merits though). With regard to training, it is quicker and cheaper to put a crewman through an ATLS course if he needs it than to put an ambliance-person through a flying course.
Night Watchman: If your info is correct about current SAR commanders not being interviewed then please add me to the presumably long list of the ‘Totally Baffled’.
Hopefully commonsense will prevail for the crewmen and only those trained and experienced will get selected instead of non-aviators (the thought of sharing accommodation during those long winter nights with some check-out girls in possession of helmet bag-fulls of Stella discount vouchers does have it’s merits though). With regard to training, it is quicker and cheaper to put a crewman through an ATLS course if he needs it than to put an ambliance-person through a flying course.
Night Watchman: If your info is correct about current SAR commanders not being interviewed then please add me to the presumably long list of the ‘Totally Baffled’.
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Mountainman and Night Watchman:
There's nothing wrong with firefighters at all. However if it IS true Bond want to train up new winchmen, then I'd rather it be an air ambulance paramedic with the medical skills already and some aviation knowledge than a firefighter with neither. Airmanship can't be learnt on a quick winchmen course, it takes time in the air and working in a multi crew environment to achieve, which they already have. But I would rather see fully qualified winchmen hired any day. (Better yet.. check out chicks!)
I can't speak for the pilots on who may or may not have got an interview but I pray that they grab with both hands the commanders with the SAR experience, because when I'm sitting in the back fat dumb and happy, I want a good SAR driver up front.
I know the experience criteria required is not a new thing, that's why I'm saying Bond will not get away with hiring those who haven't done the job before. Cheers all...
There's nothing wrong with firefighters at all. However if it IS true Bond want to train up new winchmen, then I'd rather it be an air ambulance paramedic with the medical skills already and some aviation knowledge than a firefighter with neither. Airmanship can't be learnt on a quick winchmen course, it takes time in the air and working in a multi crew environment to achieve, which they already have. But I would rather see fully qualified winchmen hired any day. (Better yet.. check out chicks!)
I can't speak for the pilots on who may or may not have got an interview but I pray that they grab with both hands the commanders with the SAR experience, because when I'm sitting in the back fat dumb and happy, I want a good SAR driver up front.
I know the experience criteria required is not a new thing, that's why I'm saying Bond will not get away with hiring those who haven't done the job before. Cheers all...
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Winchop,
“Airmanship can't be learnt on a quick winchmen course, it takes time in the air and working in a multi crew environment to achieve, which they already have.”
Are you suggesting that an air ambulance paramedic has all the airmanship he requires for SAR because he’s flown in a helicopter? What experience has he got of getting people out of the water, of getting himself and a casualty off the back off a boat safely in rough conditions, of providing a FLIR letdown at night to the back of a vessel or to a rig in fog, of plotting a search pattern, of participating in a search and providing comms with the Coastguard, RCC and the like? The list could go on. Yes they can learn the basics on a quick winchman course but they can hardly be regarded as experienced.
What you and others need to understand is that the Jigsaw project is going ahead on the results of a group of very experienced SAR operators. The times and performance which justifies the whole existence of Jigsaw was achieved by long term SAR crews with years of experience. Any endorsement for Jigsaw by HSE and the workforce and others will be based on this. Will the Bond crews meet the same performance figures and prove that they can with their current recruitment policy? The answer is I don’t know but if they aren’t employing some current SAR Commanders and adopt the same policy with crewmen then I seriously doubt it. To many non SAR crew SAR is regarded as something anyone can do quite easily, I wonder whether those calling the shots at Bond believe the same?
“I'm saying Bond will not get away with hiring those who haven't done the job before.”
Really..??? Well we'll watch and see…..
“Airmanship can't be learnt on a quick winchmen course, it takes time in the air and working in a multi crew environment to achieve, which they already have.”
Are you suggesting that an air ambulance paramedic has all the airmanship he requires for SAR because he’s flown in a helicopter? What experience has he got of getting people out of the water, of getting himself and a casualty off the back off a boat safely in rough conditions, of providing a FLIR letdown at night to the back of a vessel or to a rig in fog, of plotting a search pattern, of participating in a search and providing comms with the Coastguard, RCC and the like? The list could go on. Yes they can learn the basics on a quick winchman course but they can hardly be regarded as experienced.
What you and others need to understand is that the Jigsaw project is going ahead on the results of a group of very experienced SAR operators. The times and performance which justifies the whole existence of Jigsaw was achieved by long term SAR crews with years of experience. Any endorsement for Jigsaw by HSE and the workforce and others will be based on this. Will the Bond crews meet the same performance figures and prove that they can with their current recruitment policy? The answer is I don’t know but if they aren’t employing some current SAR Commanders and adopt the same policy with crewmen then I seriously doubt it. To many non SAR crew SAR is regarded as something anyone can do quite easily, I wonder whether those calling the shots at Bond believe the same?
“I'm saying Bond will not get away with hiring those who haven't done the job before.”
Really..??? Well we'll watch and see…..
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Is it not the case that Bond (the contractor) will have to comply with what BP (the customer) requires with regard to the experience and qualifications of the aircrew? I would hate to think that BP have been remiss in laying down stringent requirements on this matter.
Quite agree with you, Night Watchman. The correct experience and qulifications have to be present from day one or else the whole thing will go Tango Uniform in very short order.
Quite agree with you, Night Watchman. The correct experience and qulifications have to be present from day one or else the whole thing will go Tango Uniform in very short order.
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“Is it not the case that Bond (the contractor) will have to comply with what BP (the customer) requires with regard to the experience and qualifications of the aircrew?”
I think it is more of a case of - can they comply? Where are they going to get their experienced SAR crew from? They appear to have been quite picky to date so the pot is getting smaller.
SAR crew are few and far between at the moment and the pay offered by Bond is apparently on par with normal SAR pay in the UK, so not much incentive there. I don’t know how that would compare with the military crew but anyone coming over would loose a government pension and job security.
Remember it’s only a job for as long as BP keep the platforms – 40’s no more, Montrose no more, Arbroath no more…. BP’s outlook on life is big is better and I’m sure it won’t be long until they start to compare the profitability of smaller production platforms on the North Sea with their huge new discoveries in Russia.
If more platforms are sold off will the independent oil companies who will inevitability take them over want to pay for an expensive offshore SAR operation when a converted trawler sitting off a platform will meet the HSE requirements?
The job is going to be pretty boring too. Most crew who have spent a fortnight offshore doing morning and/or evening shuttles will tell you that a platform can be pretty boring and slightly depressing when you are hanging around doing nothing and there will be plenty of that!
So despite the current hype, the job itself isn’t going to be that exciting.
It’s also worth remembering that there are two other agencies that will have a big say in whether this still goes ahead. The CAA and the MCA and their approval will depend on the experience of the SAR crews amongst other considerations.
I think it is more of a case of - can they comply? Where are they going to get their experienced SAR crew from? They appear to have been quite picky to date so the pot is getting smaller.
SAR crew are few and far between at the moment and the pay offered by Bond is apparently on par with normal SAR pay in the UK, so not much incentive there. I don’t know how that would compare with the military crew but anyone coming over would loose a government pension and job security.
Remember it’s only a job for as long as BP keep the platforms – 40’s no more, Montrose no more, Arbroath no more…. BP’s outlook on life is big is better and I’m sure it won’t be long until they start to compare the profitability of smaller production platforms on the North Sea with their huge new discoveries in Russia.
If more platforms are sold off will the independent oil companies who will inevitability take them over want to pay for an expensive offshore SAR operation when a converted trawler sitting off a platform will meet the HSE requirements?
The job is going to be pretty boring too. Most crew who have spent a fortnight offshore doing morning and/or evening shuttles will tell you that a platform can be pretty boring and slightly depressing when you are hanging around doing nothing and there will be plenty of that!
So despite the current hype, the job itself isn’t going to be that exciting.
It’s also worth remembering that there are two other agencies that will have a big say in whether this still goes ahead. The CAA and the MCA and their approval will depend on the experience of the SAR crews amongst other considerations.
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Has anyone out there actually been for an interview and been offered a job?
If so, what did you think of them?
I've heard recently that the co-pilots there are deeply pissed off because they have been told that some of them will have to go onto Jigsaw whether they like it or not.
So the crews are shaping up to be pretty punchy aren't they?
You'll have "pissed off, don't want to be here, haven't got a clue what's going on" in the left hand seat, and Nurse Gladys Emmanuel on the wire eagerly anticipating treating 21 hypothermic "patients" but not looking forward to "collecting" every one of them single handedly from the "cruel sea" before she can even start dispensing tea and toast.
Nice one!
If so, what did you think of them?
I've heard recently that the co-pilots there are deeply pissed off because they have been told that some of them will have to go onto Jigsaw whether they like it or not.
So the crews are shaping up to be pretty punchy aren't they?
You'll have "pissed off, don't want to be here, haven't got a clue what's going on" in the left hand seat, and Nurse Gladys Emmanuel on the wire eagerly anticipating treating 21 hypothermic "patients" but not looking forward to "collecting" every one of them single handedly from the "cruel sea" before she can even start dispensing tea and toast.
Nice one!