Becoming a Police Pilot
Tigerfish
R1Tamer,
No I did not say that it was not possible to be a serving Police Officer and a Pilot.
However here in the UK we work to a system that has identified a possible conflict of interest between the responsibility of the pilot ( Who has the ultimate responsibility for flight safety ) and that of the Police officer who's primary role is likely to be the aprehension of the culprit. We all must remember the time when the "red Mist" came over our eyes & we took risks to get our man. Surely that is just not acceptable in the role of Pilot. Hence our practise of separating the roles.
Secondly there is the question of pay! Here in the UK there is only one way of joining the Police & that is as a constable. Everyone is then required to complete two years on the beat and on a low pay scale. I reality it will probably be four years before you can specialise. How would you manage on basic pay, and keep up your qualification & currency on a twin jet turbine helicopter during that time?
Here we find it benificial to all concerned to have our machines flown by highly experienced and competant 2,000 hrs plus proffessional pilots than take any risks.
Remember all of our machines are modern twin turbine aircraft in the 3 tonne class. They are crammed full of state of the art equipment ( Both from the pilots and the police crews viewpoint ) Because of the role equipment carried we do not have dual controls fitted so there is no possibility of the front observer flying the machine, or giving the pilot a break. Therefore we rely on the pilot being coptetant in all conditions and all circumstances. Hence our high demands in respect of experience & competance.
As I said, - it works for us but it might not for you! I am far too old a bunny to suggest that we have got it right and that you are wrong.
Here in the UK we have 31 Police helicopters each flying between 1,000 and 1,200 hrs per year. In all weathers and around the clock. I would suggest that our accident figures bear close scrutiny!
However it would appear from your note that your system has also never resulted in any accidents or incidents whereby serving police pilots have got themselves into difficulty by allowing the police task to get infront of flight safety. So perhaps we are worrying about nothing!
Tigerfish
No I did not say that it was not possible to be a serving Police Officer and a Pilot.
However here in the UK we work to a system that has identified a possible conflict of interest between the responsibility of the pilot ( Who has the ultimate responsibility for flight safety ) and that of the Police officer who's primary role is likely to be the aprehension of the culprit. We all must remember the time when the "red Mist" came over our eyes & we took risks to get our man. Surely that is just not acceptable in the role of Pilot. Hence our practise of separating the roles.
Secondly there is the question of pay! Here in the UK there is only one way of joining the Police & that is as a constable. Everyone is then required to complete two years on the beat and on a low pay scale. I reality it will probably be four years before you can specialise. How would you manage on basic pay, and keep up your qualification & currency on a twin jet turbine helicopter during that time?
Here we find it benificial to all concerned to have our machines flown by highly experienced and competant 2,000 hrs plus proffessional pilots than take any risks.
Remember all of our machines are modern twin turbine aircraft in the 3 tonne class. They are crammed full of state of the art equipment ( Both from the pilots and the police crews viewpoint ) Because of the role equipment carried we do not have dual controls fitted so there is no possibility of the front observer flying the machine, or giving the pilot a break. Therefore we rely on the pilot being coptetant in all conditions and all circumstances. Hence our high demands in respect of experience & competance.
As I said, - it works for us but it might not for you! I am far too old a bunny to suggest that we have got it right and that you are wrong.
Here in the UK we have 31 Police helicopters each flying between 1,000 and 1,200 hrs per year. In all weathers and around the clock. I would suggest that our accident figures bear close scrutiny!
However it would appear from your note that your system has also never resulted in any accidents or incidents whereby serving police pilots have got themselves into difficulty by allowing the police task to get infront of flight safety. So perhaps we are worrying about nothing!
Tigerfish
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tigerfish,
"we work to a system that has identified a possible conflict of interest between the responsibility of the pilot ( Who has the ultimate responsibility for flight safety ) and that of the Police officer who's primary role is likely to be the aprehension of the culprit."
Most of your thoughts here are clearly opinion but my intial query is still open. When you refer to "we" do you infer Police ASU's across the UK as a whole or just the unit on which you are working. Secondly which "system" are your referring to. Finally how or who has "identified a possible conflict". I don't wish to sound pedantic, it's just I can't ascertain whether these are localised views you are expressing or some hard and fast guidelines written in black and white somewhere.
For what it's worth I'm familiar with the police system given that I've been a police officer in Britain now for fifteen years. However having recently also qualifed as a Commercial Rotary Pilot on both sides of the atlantic and shortly to undertake a multi engine type and IR course I am curious about your remarks.
To mightygem I would be very interested to hear what lowly sum your pilot is being paid given he's on just over half your wages! You must be a 60k a year PC?
R1tamer
"we work to a system that has identified a possible conflict of interest between the responsibility of the pilot ( Who has the ultimate responsibility for flight safety ) and that of the Police officer who's primary role is likely to be the aprehension of the culprit."
Most of your thoughts here are clearly opinion but my intial query is still open. When you refer to "we" do you infer Police ASU's across the UK as a whole or just the unit on which you are working. Secondly which "system" are your referring to. Finally how or who has "identified a possible conflict". I don't wish to sound pedantic, it's just I can't ascertain whether these are localised views you are expressing or some hard and fast guidelines written in black and white somewhere.
For what it's worth I'm familiar with the police system given that I've been a police officer in Britain now for fifteen years. However having recently also qualifed as a Commercial Rotary Pilot on both sides of the atlantic and shortly to undertake a multi engine type and IR course I am curious about your remarks.
To mightygem I would be very interested to hear what lowly sum your pilot is being paid given he's on just over half your wages! You must be a 60k a year PC?
R1tamer
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I think the point that is being made is that a pilot is employed as a pilot and police officer is employed as a police officer. A police officer may be able to fly a helicopter but he's still employed as a police officer and therefore would not be flying a police helicopter unless he was employed as a pilot in which case his policeman's helmet would be removed!
I believe it was mentioned that it was a CAA requirement that the two roles are kept separate rather than one person's or one unit's opinion.
Cheers
Whirls
I believe it was mentioned that it was a CAA requirement that the two roles are kept separate rather than one person's or one unit's opinion.
Cheers
Whirls
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They seem to fly police helicopters here in the USA crewed by 2 fully sworn police officers with very few problems. Some of the comments why it's not done elsewhere are a bit hard to swallow. It's basic cockpit resource management.
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Police officer becoming police pilot
Yes they could do that here in the UK - but who pays for the training and hours build up - along with the time to acquire the relevant experience? It is simply uneconomic for the police to pay all that when they can buy the experience off the street. You still need the pilot to be a pilot and the observer to do the police work most of the time. (Can't say I would want to handle Heathrow Director for example, and the police radios at the same time...)
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The (to my mind) essential bits of information that were ommitted from the explanation of the UK situation is:
1. At an early stage in police aviation when PCs were flying the aircraft with limited experience and where there was not the "division" of responsibilities indicated, we had a few serious accidents. This allowed the CAA to butt in and apply a pseudo public transport set of rules.
2. There is a cultural difference between the USA and UK concerning flight safety regulation. In the UK, there is a tendency that if it flies it must be regulated to the point where the cost/hoops make it almost impossible to justify using it.
1. At an early stage in police aviation when PCs were flying the aircraft with limited experience and where there was not the "division" of responsibilities indicated, we had a few serious accidents. This allowed the CAA to butt in and apply a pseudo public transport set of rules.
2. There is a cultural difference between the USA and UK concerning flight safety regulation. In the UK, there is a tendency that if it flies it must be regulated to the point where the cost/hoops make it almost impossible to justify using it.
Tigerfish
Helinut is quite right. Much of what we have now was conditioned by the early days although I don't recall many actual "Accidents"
There is undoubtedly a cultural difference at play here, and probably a failure by some to understand the control that the CAA have over our operations in the UK. That is not to say that they are wrong because our operations do stand close scrutiny.
There also appears to be a lack of understanding that there is uniformity across Police Air operations in the UK. All units have the same structure & training, there are commonalities in equipment and crewing. All unit commanders meet regularly and adhere to common policies. There is complete co-operation and communication between units. Only the aircraft types vary a little. Some units operating EC135's and others the MD900. There is one A109 and one BK 117 in the fleet as well. The only remaining older generation AS355's are about to be replaced by EC145's. Within a few years all UK machines will be SPIFR capable.
R1 PM me and I will send you a full resume`.
There is undoubtedly a cultural difference at play here, and probably a failure by some to understand the control that the CAA have over our operations in the UK. That is not to say that they are wrong because our operations do stand close scrutiny.
There also appears to be a lack of understanding that there is uniformity across Police Air operations in the UK. All units have the same structure & training, there are commonalities in equipment and crewing. All unit commanders meet regularly and adhere to common policies. There is complete co-operation and communication between units. Only the aircraft types vary a little. Some units operating EC135's and others the MD900. There is one A109 and one BK 117 in the fleet as well. The only remaining older generation AS355's are about to be replaced by EC145's. Within a few years all UK machines will be SPIFR capable.
R1 PM me and I will send you a full resume`.
To mightygem I would be very interested to hear what lowly sum your pilot is being paid given he's on just over half your wages! You must be a 60k a year PC?
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Blimey Dave, are you a pilot??? You need to go flying a bit more, before I use all of our hours up. I thought you were the unit admin officer 
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Yes they could do that here in the UK - but who pays for the training and hours build up - along with the time to acquire the relevant experience? It is simply uneconomic for the police to pay all that when they can buy the experience off the street. You still need the pilot to be a pilot and the observer to do the police work most of the time. (Can't say I would want to handle Heathrow Director for example, and the police radios at the same time...)
As far as training, the FAA is very specific about the knowledge & ability required to obtain a commercial rotorcraft rating. Equipment varies a bit between agencies due to the mission requirements. While there are exceptions, most police air units in the USA are excellent in the manner they cooperate with each other.
Blimey Dave, are you a pilot??? You need to go flying a bit more, before I use all of our hours up. I thought you were the unit admin officer
And people wonder why only 11 of the 94 ex mil guys in the job are ex crabs.
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And after this, what is the likelyhood of joining the British Police as a Helicopter Pilot?
If you cannot continue a career in the commercial airlines due to medical, then you wouldn't be able to go the Police; it's the same medical - if you fail it, you fail it.
The career structure, to a point, is very similar; PPL(H), ATPL exams and commercial flying course; after that, it is down to hours and experience. Most Police pilots are ex-military although there are some civilian trained pilots.
Cheers
Whirls