Whats happening with NSW EMS / Paramedics refuse to fly
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Nsw Ems
I heard today that CareFlight has just taken delivery of one of the best IFR A109’s around. The fit out was carried out at a secrete location in NSW. Does any body know what CareFlight are going to do with this aircraft?
Are they getting ready for the new ambulance contract? Are CareFlight going to take over all EMS in the Sydney region?? What is going on with Surf?
I herd CHC is out of it due cost! Is that true?
Are they getting ready for the new ambulance contract? Are CareFlight going to take over all EMS in the Sydney region?? What is going on with Surf?
I herd CHC is out of it due cost! Is that true?
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To answer a few questions,
The 109 was fitted out ar their orange base (not so secret) just convenient as this is where most of their major maintenance is carried out.
It is to be used on a new contract sponsored by NRMA for an insurance viability study called HIRT (Head Injury Response), designed to get care to car crash victims with head injuries within the scope of the study to see if early intervention in this type of injury is benificial to the patient, therefore reducing insurance costs paid out in 3rd party claims (greenslips).
Generally It is a study for an eventual cost saving to insurance company payouts, that is if the study proves successful.
It will be carried out over 3 years or until the quota is met, could be shorter if they are busy!!
I think the current EMS operators are pretty safe as CHC cant afford to operate at the pricing levels the ambulance service are paying them. A pittance for the services they provide, just another example of the government riding off the backs of 'not for profit organisations'
It is about time they paid properly for the services they are provided with
The 109 was fitted out ar their orange base (not so secret) just convenient as this is where most of their major maintenance is carried out.
It is to be used on a new contract sponsored by NRMA for an insurance viability study called HIRT (Head Injury Response), designed to get care to car crash victims with head injuries within the scope of the study to see if early intervention in this type of injury is benificial to the patient, therefore reducing insurance costs paid out in 3rd party claims (greenslips).
Generally It is a study for an eventual cost saving to insurance company payouts, that is if the study proves successful.
It will be carried out over 3 years or until the quota is met, could be shorter if they are busy!!
I think the current EMS operators are pretty safe as CHC cant afford to operate at the pricing levels the ambulance service are paying them. A pittance for the services they provide, just another example of the government riding off the backs of 'not for profit organisations'
It is about time they paid properly for the services they are provided with
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Illawarra Mercury report
Chopper CEO's contract withdrawn
October 19, 2004
THE board of the region's rescue helicopter service has voted to remove beleaguered boss Peter Mangles from the top job.
Mr Mangles was informed yesterday afternoon that his two-year contract as the chief executive officer of the Southern Region Westpac Life Saver Rescue Helicopter Service would not be renewed when it expires on December 5.
It is the latest in a series of controversies that has dogged the service in recent months. Mr Mangles was stood down from active duty in early September, however no reason was given for his suspension. Sources close to the helicopter service said he was suspended because of his independent management style and personality clashes within the organisation.
Yesterday board member Greg Nance held a meeting with Mr Mangles in Cronulla and informed him of the board's decision not to renew his contract. Mr Nance, who is also the CEO of Surf Life Saving Australia, said the board's five members held a teleconference last week and voted unanimously not to reinstate Mr Mangles. He could not detail the reasons for the decision.
"I can say that the board has determined not to renew Peter's contract," he said. "I'm not prepared to go into the reasons for that until the chairman (John Donohue) is back in Australia."
Mr Mangles last night said he could not comment on his position. The Mercury believes he is considering taking legal action, and will meet his lawyers today.
The service has been in crisis since August 27, when the Wollongong and Sydney helicopters were suspended from open-door rescue missions.
Sydney paramedics who fly on the Sydney chopper had refused to fly on rescue missions because they had safety concerns about a harness used to winch people to safety.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority later formally approved the harnesses.
However Sydney paramedics said they were uncomfortable to wear.
Mr Mangles was suspended amid the controversy.
Last month a working party was formed by the Illawarra's business, civic and community leaders to discuss the possibility of forming a breakaway Illawarra organisation to run the Wollongong helicopter service separate from Sydney.
Mr Nance said no decision had been made about Mr Mangles' replacement. Acting CEO Perry Wells will remain in the position until mid-December, when a replacement is expected to be announced.
THE board of the region's rescue helicopter service has voted to remove beleaguered boss Peter Mangles from the top job.
Mr Mangles was informed yesterday afternoon that his two-year contract as the chief executive officer of the Southern Region Westpac Life Saver Rescue Helicopter Service would not be renewed when it expires on December 5.
It is the latest in a series of controversies that has dogged the service in recent months. Mr Mangles was stood down from active duty in early September, however no reason was given for his suspension. Sources close to the helicopter service said he was suspended because of his independent management style and personality clashes within the organisation.
Yesterday board member Greg Nance held a meeting with Mr Mangles in Cronulla and informed him of the board's decision not to renew his contract. Mr Nance, who is also the CEO of Surf Life Saving Australia, said the board's five members held a teleconference last week and voted unanimously not to reinstate Mr Mangles. He could not detail the reasons for the decision.
"I can say that the board has determined not to renew Peter's contract," he said. "I'm not prepared to go into the reasons for that until the chairman (John Donohue) is back in Australia."
Mr Mangles last night said he could not comment on his position. The Mercury believes he is considering taking legal action, and will meet his lawyers today.
The service has been in crisis since August 27, when the Wollongong and Sydney helicopters were suspended from open-door rescue missions.
Sydney paramedics who fly on the Sydney chopper had refused to fly on rescue missions because they had safety concerns about a harness used to winch people to safety.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority later formally approved the harnesses.
However Sydney paramedics said they were uncomfortable to wear.
Mr Mangles was suspended amid the controversy.
Last month a working party was formed by the Illawarra's business, civic and community leaders to discuss the possibility of forming a breakaway Illawarra organisation to run the Wollongong helicopter service separate from Sydney.
Mr Nance said no decision had been made about Mr Mangles' replacement. Acting CEO Perry Wells will remain in the position until mid-December, when a replacement is expected to be announced.
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Boys,
As you should have gathered by now this is a VERY sensitive issue, what with the renewal of contracts coming up and all. I doubt very much that you will get anything from anyone who really knows anything.
GAGS
E86
As you should have gathered by now this is a VERY sensitive issue, what with the renewal of contracts coming up and all. I doubt very much that you will get anything from anyone who really knows anything.
GAGS
E86
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I see Westpac have advertised 3 positions in the Aussie last week. Surely you would have to think twice before applying with all the problems they are experiencing. Are they going to be there after Xmas?
Why would you give them the contract, Westpac have paramedics who get upset and spit the dummy when they can't get their own way. These guys are a poisonous breed who know very little about aviation but try to go beyond the rules that PICs and organisational management must follow to cover their behinds. Until these paramedics are put in their seat, (ie the back seat) and let the guys who know about aviation do their job then things won't change.
Why would you give them the contract, Westpac have paramedics who get upset and spit the dummy when they can't get their own way. These guys are a poisonous breed who know very little about aviation but try to go beyond the rules that PICs and organisational management must follow to cover their behinds. Until these paramedics are put in their seat, (ie the back seat) and let the guys who know about aviation do their job then things won't change.
RustyBitz: I note that you have created a username just for this thread - and used it just to snipe at the paramedics at Westpac.
Fishing hard?
OR: personal issues with paramedics/medical crews/backseaters?
OR: some contractual/political related interest in this?
Fishing hard?
OR: personal issues with paramedics/medical crews/backseaters?
OR: some contractual/political related interest in this?
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Maybe both to your "fishing hard" enquiry. No personal experience but through some close sources a lot of pretty ordinary things have happened over the past couple of months. Not really the stuff you want to be happening when these crews need to gel as one unit to perform some of the terrific tasks/missions they are called upon to do in the worst possible conditions.
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Lifesaver Sydney Fails Safety Audit ??
Heard an interesting rumour this morning and wanted to know if anyone knows if there is any truth to it.
Seems the rumour mill is running amuck with the topic of Lifesaver failing their safety audit and NSW Health deciding what to do about it.
Anyone got any info on this.
Seems the rumour mill is running amuck with the topic of Lifesaver failing their safety audit and NSW Health deciding what to do about it.
Anyone got any info on this.
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I have been watching this topic with much intersts. Thursday's Illawarra Mercury has an interesting article on what may ahead for the surf fratenity in Wollongong. Is this the start of the end for SLSA in Wollongong. It appears that the community doesn't want them in their area, surely it will be difficult to be accepted after all these problems and why would you donate to an unstable organisation.
Phoenix Rising...
If you can't read the article let me know and I will attach the article in a new post.
Phoenix Rising...
If you can't read the article let me know and I will attach the article in a new post.
And yet another "sniper" registered on pprune for a 1 off go at something.
grenade, rusty bitz and one-are. Why not contribute instead of run off with personal vendettas? Or are you the same person? What is your interest here?
My interest is the truth, so lets clear up two issues you all seem to misinterpret so blindly:
1. The paramedics NEVER refused to fly. (Gee that makes a few of you look sillly - and the Illawarra Mockery)
2. Lifesaver did NOT fail their safety audit.
grenade, rusty bitz and one-are. Why not contribute instead of run off with personal vendettas? Or are you the same person? What is your interest here?
My interest is the truth, so lets clear up two issues you all seem to misinterpret so blindly:
1. The paramedics NEVER refused to fly. (Gee that makes a few of you look sillly - and the Illawarra Mockery)
2. Lifesaver did NOT fail their safety audit.
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Hemet Fire...
Just confirm with me you are not the moderator of Rotorheads because you seem to be the E- police on people of this site. No I am not Rustybits or Grenade but you do have to have your first post sometime, I am sure you started at number one post sometime ago?
We out here read what is presented through the print media and yes I grant they never let a good story get in the way of the truth, however, are we not to believe para's didn't obstruct the introduction of a new harness system into the aircraft. Are we also not to believe local businessmen are withdrawing their financial support because of the turmoil. Are we not to believe that local workers striked and marched to the base to show their displeasure in the service they have been receiving from their 'supposive' local chopper. The archives in the Mercury indicates a lot more but from all your reports this is all myth.
Maybe I should stop reading the newspaper and watch for your personal posts on this topic! We out here just want to know the truth on a organisation that seems to be having a lot of internal problems. I wait with baited breath.
Just confirm with me you are not the moderator of Rotorheads because you seem to be the E- police on people of this site. No I am not Rustybits or Grenade but you do have to have your first post sometime, I am sure you started at number one post sometime ago?
We out here read what is presented through the print media and yes I grant they never let a good story get in the way of the truth, however, are we not to believe para's didn't obstruct the introduction of a new harness system into the aircraft. Are we also not to believe local businessmen are withdrawing their financial support because of the turmoil. Are we not to believe that local workers striked and marched to the base to show their displeasure in the service they have been receiving from their 'supposive' local chopper. The archives in the Mercury indicates a lot more but from all your reports this is all myth.
Maybe I should stop reading the newspaper and watch for your personal posts on this topic! We out here just want to know the truth on a organisation that seems to be having a lot of internal problems. I wait with baited breath.
I can confirm that I am not the moderator (you seem to know the system well) nor the e police. Just seems to be a lot of first timers attracted to this thread, but please accept my appology one-are, and welcome to pprune. I look forward to your contribution.
The newspaper "truths" are based on the falsity that the paramedics refused to fly in SYDNEY. Then the issue about a harness that was (contrary to inferences in the paper) NOT approved by CASA - seems to me to be a reasonable position not to fly in it doesnt it?
Only the paper can draw a connection between that and some misconception about whose helicopter it is. The businessmen, local workers, and you (by your comments of "supposive local chopper") , all believe there is an issue too - and as you point out, the paper certainly would leave that impression - so believe me, I am not having a go at you (or them).
Can you draw the connection between the falsity of "Paramedics refuse to fly", and "supposive" local chopper for me please? Is there something about this issue I, or my source are not getting?
The newspaper "truths" are based on the falsity that the paramedics refused to fly in SYDNEY. Then the issue about a harness that was (contrary to inferences in the paper) NOT approved by CASA - seems to me to be a reasonable position not to fly in it doesnt it?
Only the paper can draw a connection between that and some misconception about whose helicopter it is. The businessmen, local workers, and you (by your comments of "supposive local chopper") , all believe there is an issue too - and as you point out, the paper certainly would leave that impression - so believe me, I am not having a go at you (or them).
Can you draw the connection between the falsity of "Paramedics refuse to fly", and "supposive" local chopper for me please? Is there something about this issue I, or my source are not getting?
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I have been reading all the comments on this issue for several months. All are very interesting, and most prove why this is called the Rumour Network.
However, as an ex member of the organisation, I would like to present a few facts......just in the interests of truth you understand.
1. After a series of disastrous and fraudulent CEO's, Peter (Alby) Mangles was appointed CEO. There were a few of us who saw this as our last hope. The organisation had for many years been run behind the scenes by "the boys club", a mix of part timers and Surf. A part timer even ran the Crweman roster. These part timers I might add, had full time jobs in Fire, Ambulance & Police. But they had the power at the time. Any desire to put the organisation on a more permanent and professional level was World War 3.
2. Peter Mangles mangement style was brilliant. He had just come from CEO of the Prince of Wales hospital, and had turned that around during his tenure. Such was his belief and passion about the organisation, he was also a volunteer crewman in Wollongong during his time as CEO of the P of W.
3.Peter tried to put the organisation on a more professional and equitaqble footing. When he joined, it was broke. we couldn't even afford to buy a full uniform set for new employees. At the time of his standown, he had brought in over a million dollars. And this is the guy the boys club wanted to get rid of!! They were too short sighted to realise he was the last hope.
4. Wollongong communnity has always been very supportive and proactive about their helicopter. They are understandable upset at what has happened. In contrast to their city cousins, the "gong paramedics are a great bunch of professionals, very keen to do anyhting to support the helicopter. And again unlike their city cousins, they leave the runing of it to those who are responsible for it.
5. The issue with the safety equipment was a total red herring. The club used it as a means to get rid of Peter Mangles and his supporters.
6. The pilots grouped together to get rid of a chief pilot with whom they disagreed. Instead of open, frank and honest discussion, they went behind his back and caused him to resign. The culture of the place was like a vipers nest. Huddled conversations between small groups, conversations that would stop when one entered the room. It was a terrible place to work.
It is all very sad, but as a few of us have said over the years, the best thing would be to sack the lot and start agian with a new fresh group. Many have tried to bring a modicum of sense to the organisation, but failed. I sincerely hope thatwhoever takes it on, has better luck. The community deserves better, but that was never a priority with most of the members.
However, as an ex member of the organisation, I would like to present a few facts......just in the interests of truth you understand.
1. After a series of disastrous and fraudulent CEO's, Peter (Alby) Mangles was appointed CEO. There were a few of us who saw this as our last hope. The organisation had for many years been run behind the scenes by "the boys club", a mix of part timers and Surf. A part timer even ran the Crweman roster. These part timers I might add, had full time jobs in Fire, Ambulance & Police. But they had the power at the time. Any desire to put the organisation on a more permanent and professional level was World War 3.
2. Peter Mangles mangement style was brilliant. He had just come from CEO of the Prince of Wales hospital, and had turned that around during his tenure. Such was his belief and passion about the organisation, he was also a volunteer crewman in Wollongong during his time as CEO of the P of W.
3.Peter tried to put the organisation on a more professional and equitaqble footing. When he joined, it was broke. we couldn't even afford to buy a full uniform set for new employees. At the time of his standown, he had brought in over a million dollars. And this is the guy the boys club wanted to get rid of!! They were too short sighted to realise he was the last hope.
4. Wollongong communnity has always been very supportive and proactive about their helicopter. They are understandable upset at what has happened. In contrast to their city cousins, the "gong paramedics are a great bunch of professionals, very keen to do anyhting to support the helicopter. And again unlike their city cousins, they leave the runing of it to those who are responsible for it.
5. The issue with the safety equipment was a total red herring. The club used it as a means to get rid of Peter Mangles and his supporters.
6. The pilots grouped together to get rid of a chief pilot with whom they disagreed. Instead of open, frank and honest discussion, they went behind his back and caused him to resign. The culture of the place was like a vipers nest. Huddled conversations between small groups, conversations that would stop when one entered the room. It was a terrible place to work.
It is all very sad, but as a few of us have said over the years, the best thing would be to sack the lot and start agian with a new fresh group. Many have tried to bring a modicum of sense to the organisation, but failed. I sincerely hope thatwhoever takes it on, has better luck. The community deserves better, but that was never a priority with most of the members.
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Stirring yes, personal vendetta NO.
We perhaps should take the Illawarra Mercury with a grain of salt, even Media Watch has given up trying to get sense there.
REMINDER
This is not a Westpac thread, its supposed to be about NSW EMS and the new contracts. We are still waiting to hear from anyone who has seen the 'Operational Research & Health' or 'Avipro' submissions to NSW Health. These documents could reshape the future of many aviators in NSW. Lets find them and post them.
We perhaps should take the Illawarra Mercury with a grain of salt, even Media Watch has given up trying to get sense there.
REMINDER
This is not a Westpac thread, its supposed to be about NSW EMS and the new contracts. We are still waiting to hear from anyone who has seen the 'Operational Research & Health' or 'Avipro' submissions to NSW Health. These documents could reshape the future of many aviators in NSW. Lets find them and post them.
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Well it is nice to hear the truth Katfish from someone who has been there. Interesting comment " but as a few of us have said over the years, the best thing would be to sack the lot and start agian with a new fresh group".
Looks like you are on the money Katfish with that one as I hear the ball has started to roll and it is beginning to pick up speed in the local area. No doubt surf will try to fight it out but I can't see them having much local support if the old CEO is at the helm of the new consortium. What do you think helmet fire (no I am not being a smart ar5e) just looking for your thoughts as you seem to be closer to it than the rest of us. Do you think Westpac will remain in the 'gong, a long struggle could be costly? And as it is rightly pointed out as a NSW EMS outfit, would Careflight or even the Hummingbird be anymore welcome than Westpac?
Looks like you are on the money Katfish with that one as I hear the ball has started to roll and it is beginning to pick up speed in the local area. No doubt surf will try to fight it out but I can't see them having much local support if the old CEO is at the helm of the new consortium. What do you think helmet fire (no I am not being a smart ar5e) just looking for your thoughts as you seem to be closer to it than the rest of us. Do you think Westpac will remain in the 'gong, a long struggle could be costly? And as it is rightly pointed out as a NSW EMS outfit, would Careflight or even the Hummingbird be anymore welcome than Westpac?
one-are,
I think you posed the $64,000 question. I have no idea what the intent is at Lifesaver, and my mates aren't saying (or wont). But having worked in Wollongong as a casual some years back, I will say that the organisation went through hell to establish a helicopter there, and the people working there were passionate and proud of both the organisation and of being in Wollongong. The work ethic was outstanding and they busted a gut to bring a credible response asset to the people of Wollongong.
I should say "re establish" because Illawarra Resuce have been there, the NSCA, and even the Red Hummingbird briefly (post NSCA) I believe. The real question though is to what extent the asset fits into the NSW Ambulance and NSW Health review because it doesnt matter how credible the asset is if it is not manned, supported, and tasked by NSW Ambulance. As grenade calls for: any rumours from the review?
I think you posed the $64,000 question. I have no idea what the intent is at Lifesaver, and my mates aren't saying (or wont). But having worked in Wollongong as a casual some years back, I will say that the organisation went through hell to establish a helicopter there, and the people working there were passionate and proud of both the organisation and of being in Wollongong. The work ethic was outstanding and they busted a gut to bring a credible response asset to the people of Wollongong.
I should say "re establish" because Illawarra Resuce have been there, the NSCA, and even the Red Hummingbird briefly (post NSCA) I believe. The real question though is to what extent the asset fits into the NSW Ambulance and NSW Health review because it doesnt matter how credible the asset is if it is not manned, supported, and tasked by NSW Ambulance. As grenade calls for: any rumours from the review?
