Chopper 4 Crash in New York (incl videos)
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The accumulator in the TR system ?
The NYC accident ship was a BA and they don't have a T/R accumulator. Some years back the Australian Army 350's had accumulators fitted but the Type Specification for the civil BA doesn't include an accumulator.
It seems that this guy had a definite problem with the T/R, and we will eventually find whether it was a drive or control problem. Note that one TV station reported that "a mechanic had fitted the wrong clutch".
The NTSB will put an end to all the guesses in due course and until then we should be thankful that it was a survivable accident.
STL
It seems that this guy had a definite problem with the T/R, and we will eventually find whether it was a drive or control problem. Note that one TV station reported that "a mechanic had fitted the wrong clutch".
The NTSB will put an end to all the guesses in due course and until then we should be thankful that it was a survivable accident.
STL
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Ok, maybe i'm geting mixed up between the 350 and 355 when it comes to post crash burning. Good job it did land on its backside though. Inverted it would have been a totally different picture. Amazing to watch the guy on the video just walk out of what looks like total carnage!
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I'm just picking up on SawThe Light s' last post ...
Can anybody describe with authority (hypothetical or otherwise)exactly what would/could happen if the FWU slipped/grabbed/slipped while in a hover?
It seems that this guy had a definite problem with the T/R, and we will eventually find whether it was a drive or control problem. Note that one TV station reported that "a mechanic had fitted the wrong clutch".
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Blimey!
Glad to see they walked away!
I'd like to see the moments before the video feed picks up..... a dirty dive for speed is certainly consistent with trying to get away from a tail-rotor failure.....but watching the machine at the bottom, when he pulls pitch to arrest the decent, it doesn't seem to induce the massive rate of spin the Squirrel is capable of without it's tail-rotor.....
Gob smacking footage! But I'm gonna lean more towards serious hydraulic problems at this point! I guess the accident investigators will let us know in due course......
The crash worthiness of any squirrel has, to my mind always been a bit suspect.....look where the main gearbox is when the aircraft finally comes to rest! Now I accept that it's just been subjected to an unbelievable impact....but I've seen the main gearbox collapse into the cabin before! & that can't be good! Absolutely amazing to see people walk away from an aircraft that has completely disintegrated!
To the pilot.....I salute you! No matter what people say, no matter what you did....it was right for the day....everyone walked! Well Done!
I'd like to see the moments before the video feed picks up..... a dirty dive for speed is certainly consistent with trying to get away from a tail-rotor failure.....but watching the machine at the bottom, when he pulls pitch to arrest the decent, it doesn't seem to induce the massive rate of spin the Squirrel is capable of without it's tail-rotor.....
Gob smacking footage! But I'm gonna lean more towards serious hydraulic problems at this point! I guess the accident investigators will let us know in due course......
The crash worthiness of any squirrel has, to my mind always been a bit suspect.....look where the main gearbox is when the aircraft finally comes to rest! Now I accept that it's just been subjected to an unbelievable impact....but I've seen the main gearbox collapse into the cabin before! & that can't be good! Absolutely amazing to see people walk away from an aircraft that has completely disintegrated!
To the pilot.....I salute you! No matter what people say, no matter what you did....it was right for the day....everyone walked! Well Done!
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Downloadable footage (MPEG)
Thanks to CaptHollywood we have this clip of downloadable footage of the crash, you can save this to your computer using the "Download to Disk" command on your computer (right mouse button)
(DialUp users beware, this is a 3.2 MB file and will take a while to download)
HERE !
Many thanks to CaptHollywood who sent this great clip along with another one in slow motion which I will try to post soon.
(DialUp users beware, this is a 3.2 MB file and will take a while to download)
HERE !
Many thanks to CaptHollywood who sent this great clip along with another one in slow motion which I will try to post soon.
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Has there been any release of a "cause" of this accident yet??
Answering my own questions!!
Its a sure sign of madness.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=NYC04FA117&rpt=p
Answering my own questions!!
Its a sure sign of madness.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=NYC04FA117&rpt=p
Last edited by Aussie Mate; 15th May 2004 at 04:42.
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TV doc about 2004 NY city Chopper 4 crash
Russ Mowray talks about the NY city Chopper 4 crash in 2004.
Very light on science, but the interviews with Russ are worth watching.
"its like a big hand grenade"
A lot of courage to enter a simulator programmed to replicate the incident, since it was the first time he had "flown" since the crash.
Entire show (30 minutes)
videobb - Free Video Hosting - Your #1 Video Site - the.indestructibles.s01e01.720p
Preview here
The Indestructibles - Indestructibles - Helicopter Crash Video on TV.com
Mickjoebill
Very light on science, but the interviews with Russ are worth watching.
"its like a big hand grenade"
A lot of courage to enter a simulator programmed to replicate the incident, since it was the first time he had "flown" since the crash.
Entire show (30 minutes)
videobb - Free Video Hosting - Your #1 Video Site - the.indestructibles.s01e01.720p
Preview here
The Indestructibles - Indestructibles - Helicopter Crash Video on TV.com
Mickjoebill
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I chanced upon this show the other day on the Discovery channel and I'm sorry to say that it's pure fiction.
It all starts well enough with an opening sequence in which the viewer is introduced to the pilot and the airborne reporter and then walked through the accident footage all the way to the dramatic scene where the two emerge from the wreckage. But from there onward it willfully and cynically departs from the truth. Carefully edited out from the video, and omitted in the commentary, is the fact that there were three people on board, not two.
This is not some minor bit of trivia. It's not like the producers innocently failed to mention his presence for the benefit of cinematographic efficiency. The mysterious 'third man' was in fact another pilot, riding along in the backseat as part of a new-hire orientation. He was left out purposely because his story contradicts the show's narrative of airborne heroics in the face of a crippling mechanical failure.
The truth, as contained in the NTSB report, is much more mundane, more sobering, and less satisfactory than the fairytale presented here. There was a malfunction, to be sure. The hydraulic belt was installed inside-out and broke as a consequence. But the failure was all human: an incorrect response to a 'HYD FAIL' warning light and horn.
I'm not here to cast aspersions. Every year, in the simulator, I always make at least one mistake (and usually several) when performing emergency checklist items. On the few occasions that I've had a real emergency, I was able afterwards to identify areas where I could have done better. It's okay to make mistakes, even ones that lead to an accident. What is important is that we are honest about what happened and that we all treat it as a learning experience.
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...2012120000.pdf
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...2012120000.pdf
It all starts well enough with an opening sequence in which the viewer is introduced to the pilot and the airborne reporter and then walked through the accident footage all the way to the dramatic scene where the two emerge from the wreckage. But from there onward it willfully and cynically departs from the truth. Carefully edited out from the video, and omitted in the commentary, is the fact that there were three people on board, not two.
This is not some minor bit of trivia. It's not like the producers innocently failed to mention his presence for the benefit of cinematographic efficiency. The mysterious 'third man' was in fact another pilot, riding along in the backseat as part of a new-hire orientation. He was left out purposely because his story contradicts the show's narrative of airborne heroics in the face of a crippling mechanical failure.
The truth, as contained in the NTSB report, is much more mundane, more sobering, and less satisfactory than the fairytale presented here. There was a malfunction, to be sure. The hydraulic belt was installed inside-out and broke as a consequence. But the failure was all human: an incorrect response to a 'HYD FAIL' warning light and horn.
I'm not here to cast aspersions. Every year, in the simulator, I always make at least one mistake (and usually several) when performing emergency checklist items. On the few occasions that I've had a real emergency, I was able afterwards to identify areas where I could have done better. It's okay to make mistakes, even ones that lead to an accident. What is important is that we are honest about what happened and that we all treat it as a learning experience.
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...2012120000.pdf
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...2012120000.pdf
Last edited by Charles Marlow; 16th Jan 2012 at 14:16.
Disclaimer: I knew Russ when we worked together in the 1970's. He was a great guy, and I liked him. Back then he was an excellent, enthusiastic, well-rounded professional pilot whose skills were beyond reproach. I have no doubt that he got even better as his career progressed.
...But none of us is perfect.
Look, Russ knows he screwed up. He knows that he misidentified the emergency, calling it a tail rotor failure to JFK Tower when in fact it was a hydraulic failure. He even knows that he *probably* should have caught the inside-out hydraulic drive belt on preflight, given all the publicity that Astar hydraulic failures have had.
But we don't have to beat him up over this. (That ride-along pilot sure threw him under the bus!) Who among us has never made a mistake? I know we're not "supposed to" make mistakes but I've sure made my share! At least Russ's worked out okay, let's be charitable and give him that. We don't often get to speak to those involved after the fact; they're usually dead. We'd prefer that he say, "Yeah, I wish I would've done better, but I did not. Oops." But hey, it can be hard admitting your mistakes, even years later. (Just ask me about my first marriage sometime - it was all HER fault!)
And if some TV show wants to overdramatize the event, well, that's TV for you. But yeah, they really did a poor job on it.
On the other hand, I think it was brave of Russ to put himself into that sim. Holy cow, I would've freaked out! But I also think that he should have flown sooner after the initial crash - not let so much time go by. (Did the FAA not require a "709" ride of him?)
Lesson learned, eh? Preflight those hyrdraulic drive belts well. And be more spring-loaded for the hydraulic failure in a single-belt Astar, not the tail rotor failure because the former is *probably* more likely to happen than the latter.
...But none of us is perfect.
Look, Russ knows he screwed up. He knows that he misidentified the emergency, calling it a tail rotor failure to JFK Tower when in fact it was a hydraulic failure. He even knows that he *probably* should have caught the inside-out hydraulic drive belt on preflight, given all the publicity that Astar hydraulic failures have had.
But we don't have to beat him up over this. (That ride-along pilot sure threw him under the bus!) Who among us has never made a mistake? I know we're not "supposed to" make mistakes but I've sure made my share! At least Russ's worked out okay, let's be charitable and give him that. We don't often get to speak to those involved after the fact; they're usually dead. We'd prefer that he say, "Yeah, I wish I would've done better, but I did not. Oops." But hey, it can be hard admitting your mistakes, even years later. (Just ask me about my first marriage sometime - it was all HER fault!)
And if some TV show wants to overdramatize the event, well, that's TV for you. But yeah, they really did a poor job on it.
On the other hand, I think it was brave of Russ to put himself into that sim. Holy cow, I would've freaked out! But I also think that he should have flown sooner after the initial crash - not let so much time go by. (Did the FAA not require a "709" ride of him?)
Lesson learned, eh? Preflight those hyrdraulic drive belts well. And be more spring-loaded for the hydraulic failure in a single-belt Astar, not the tail rotor failure because the former is *probably* more likely to happen than the latter.
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FH1100 Pilot, you are absolutely, 100 percent right. I don't mean to ding this gentleman at all, except to say that he was an obviously willing participant in this phony documentary. But I have to make a disclaimer as well. I happen to know the pilot who was in the back seat. He is also a great guy. And I don't think he threw anybody under the bus. He merely gave the NTSB an unvarnished account of his observations, including the (apparent) lack of pre-flight attention to the hydraulic system. Enough said about this. I wish both pilots well. Like you, I feel that 'there but for the grace of etc. etc.' and it could have easily been me or any of us. Lesson learned here.
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Lesson learned, eh? Preflight those hyrdraulic drive belts well.
Rant over.
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Higher level lesson: dont fly those helos with belt drive hydraulics.
except to say that he was an obviously willing participant in this phony documentary.
Given the dubious editorial slant chosen by the production team it is possible that Russ does not agree with how his interview was edited.
Make your own audio recording of the interview so you are able to defend your honor.
Broadcasters do not give editorial control to interviewees.
Mickjoebill
