Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
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Apparently, If your a ringer, you cant, due to the fact that you dont have any writing ability. Dont worry mate, I used a burnt stick and signed an X and that was alright. 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
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A little advice from an old fart.....
Hours in the seat is just an indication of how long you have been taking money for the ultimate enjoyment, or paying money to be there.
The "employment capability" of all potential pilots is not necassarily measured in hours in the book, more so in the motivation of the individual to achieve as high as skill as possible.
Before you race off to chase those few hours flying tourists around the Rock or the Reef, get back into the books................
Your ATPL and IREX subjects are worth more to the industry than a few hundred hours on a piston or turbine....!!!!
Burn the midnight oil.....it will be worth it.
The "employment capability" of all potential pilots is not necassarily measured in hours in the book, more so in the motivation of the individual to achieve as high as skill as possible.
Before you race off to chase those few hours flying tourists around the Rock or the Reef, get back into the books................
Your ATPL and IREX subjects are worth more to the industry than a few hundred hours on a piston or turbine....!!!!
Burn the midnight oil.....it will be worth it.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
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Good in theory RED WINE. Try convincing the insurance companies that having below 500 hours constitutes far cheaper premiums!!
I too have ATPH & IREX but under 500......but still no job for me?????
I too have ATPH & IREX but under 500......but still no job for me?????
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
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RedWine.. All depends on where they want to go and what they want to do.. Getting their IREX and their ATPL(H) would be nice but that is a lot of cash and time and the big two won't touch them unless they have the min hrs req. Most other small operators couldn't give a rats if they did hold the subjects, even a bit sus to the fact that they might be using them as a stepping stone. Still the fact that there are more than plenty of pilots that bend over and take it up the pooshute just to get into the industry with low or no pay seems to point out the obvious that most of the newcomers will take any job that they can get.
Red Wine
I'd say that ATPL(H) and IREX are next to useless without at least 500 hours in the book. A pilot with no more than 105 hours and both the theory passes is still a pilot with no experience, even a pilot with 500 hours is still at the bottom of a steep learning curve.
Once you have the job, then get the study done, so that when the ads for pilots are in the press you have the experience and qualifications ready on your CV. Without the job you could be pouring more good money away.
I'd say that ATPL(H) and IREX are next to useless without at least 500 hours in the book. A pilot with no more than 105 hours and both the theory passes is still a pilot with no experience, even a pilot with 500 hours is still at the bottom of a steep learning curve.
Once you have the job, then get the study done, so that when the ads for pilots are in the press you have the experience and qualifications ready on your CV. Without the job you could be pouring more good money away.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
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Pohm 1.....
Sorry but I disagree...........
Looking at it from another viewpoint................
An aspiring CPL pilot with 500 hrs......or an aspiring CPL pilot with 200 hrs and ATPL and IREX........all personalities being the same....who will get the job?
Its a common discussion point within the industry......IREX and ATPL shows more than just a qualification............
It shows willingness to strive harder, shows you do have the mental capacity to pass that higher qual, and it illustrates your capacity to self improve yourself....
All attributes that employers look for......
Please don't feel that anyone with 500 hrs is going to be let loose in a machine in any PIC capacity........with a few Flight Schools/Charter Companies exceptions around the Rock.
You could hope/strive for a First Officers position......but there are hundreds of aspiring CPL's out there................but only a few with IREX and ATPL........and even less that feel the industry doesn't owe them anything.
Burn the midnight oil....
Looking at it from another viewpoint................
An aspiring CPL pilot with 500 hrs......or an aspiring CPL pilot with 200 hrs and ATPL and IREX........all personalities being the same....who will get the job?
Its a common discussion point within the industry......IREX and ATPL shows more than just a qualification............
It shows willingness to strive harder, shows you do have the mental capacity to pass that higher qual, and it illustrates your capacity to self improve yourself....
All attributes that employers look for......
Please don't feel that anyone with 500 hrs is going to be let loose in a machine in any PIC capacity........with a few Flight Schools/Charter Companies exceptions around the Rock.
You could hope/strive for a First Officers position......but there are hundreds of aspiring CPL's out there................but only a few with IREX and ATPL........and even less that feel the industry doesn't owe them anything.
Burn the midnight oil....
If I were an employer looking to take on a low hour pilot in their first job, say to fly scenics, and I had the choice of your two applicants ie 200hrs and IREX/ATPL or 500hrs and no extra theory I would very likely go for the one with a few more hours. Those extra 300 hours are going to be a minimum of 350/400 extra take offs and landings, and maybe a bit of downwind or hot/high experience. Those first few of hundred hours are where you start to get a feel for the machine that you fly. My insurance company is most likely to support the decision as the theory means nothing to the excess!
When looking to move on from that first job I entirely agree, 1000hrs and IREX/ATPL may make a candidate preferable to one who had done nothing to further his theory knowledge.
And I am burning that midnight oil!
When looking to move on from that first job I entirely agree, 1000hrs and IREX/ATPL may make a candidate preferable to one who had done nothing to further his theory knowledge.
And I am burning that midnight oil!
The proof is in the pudding guys..I got my first job with only 190 hours total helicopter, but ONLY because I had my IREX subject passed. That got me in the left hand seat of an S76 and earning a decent salary (like I mean, earning MONEY to fly helicopters!!), during which I studied in my own time and passed the ATPL exam. Passing the ATPL exam got me a big pay rise and a ticket over to the right hand seat in an S76. I've never looked back since starting out, never worked for free, never swept a hangar floor to "earn" a few hours. All I did was study hard, learn my craft from other professionals, and now with 3 twin-command endorsements (none of which I've had to pay a cent for) there are plenty of jobs going around from which I can choose. I could have had 500 or 1,000 hours and it still wouldn't have got me that first job without the IREX, and I'd still be flying an R22 (if anything at all). Instead I'm installed in a nice big B412, or if I feel like a change ocassionally I can go fly an S76, or if I'm really desperate then back to "stick and rudder" flying in a B212. And I've still only got 190 hours total R22, just like I had when my first pilot job landed at my feet. So, speaking from experience, to all you basic CPL's out there, go get your IREX and ATPL subjects passed as soon as you can, and don't go paying for any additional endorsements. It won't cost you much if you study privately (like I did), and it could lead to your dream job and a future as a helicopter Captain.
Yes, Divine Wind, that is the question!!
Gullibell sounds like an ideal candidate for the HAA Executive. He has "Get up and go", not somebody for whom it already got up and went. Initiative, doesn't mind some hard work, lots of industry experience, should understand the rules affecting the helo industry.
OK, that's got the president sorted, now who will be the Treasurer? This is a fun job, I had it for 7 years and then joined the list of burnt-out execs.
Plenty of committee positions too. Just list your names below:
Gullibell sounds like an ideal candidate for the HAA Executive. He has "Get up and go", not somebody for whom it already got up and went. Initiative, doesn't mind some hard work, lots of industry experience, should understand the rules affecting the helo industry.
OK, that's got the president sorted, now who will be the Treasurer? This is a fun job, I had it for 7 years and then joined the list of burnt-out execs.
Plenty of committee positions too. Just list your names below:
Red Wine and GulliBell,
Three phone calls re co pilots in Australia.
Bristows-min 500hrs pic & IREX.
CHC-min 300hrs pic more often 500 & IREX.
HA- don't need them anymore.
Hours seem to be the main thing to get, once you are racking them up get the study done. Its not cheap but once working in the industry its tax deductable.
GulliBell- you seem to have had a smooth ride into the industry, was it some time ago? (Not trying to be funny, but those breaks don't come too often now, even into the co pilot spaces.)
Also one company seems reluctant to move copilots into captains slots without a large slice of PIC time, so you could get into a dead end, ie no PIC time=no captains slot, no captains slot=no PIC time. I'd love to be proved wrong, but thats the way it has appeared recently.
I've got the IREX, am doing ATPL and counting up the hours as we speak. I vowed not to spend any more money after the completion of licence and turbine endorsement until I was working. It's too easy to pour cash away in this industry, pay for what you need, but not before you can use it.
All the young achievers have got their heads in the books, not reading PPRUNE!
Three phone calls re co pilots in Australia.
Bristows-min 500hrs pic & IREX.
CHC-min 300hrs pic more often 500 & IREX.
HA- don't need them anymore.
Hours seem to be the main thing to get, once you are racking them up get the study done. Its not cheap but once working in the industry its tax deductable.
GulliBell- you seem to have had a smooth ride into the industry, was it some time ago? (Not trying to be funny, but those breaks don't come too often now, even into the co pilot spaces.)
Also one company seems reluctant to move copilots into captains slots without a large slice of PIC time, so you could get into a dead end, ie no PIC time=no captains slot, no captains slot=no PIC time. I'd love to be proved wrong, but thats the way it has appeared recently.
I've got the IREX, am doing ATPL and counting up the hours as we speak. I vowed not to spend any more money after the completion of licence and turbine endorsement until I was working. It's too easy to pour cash away in this industry, pay for what you need, but not before you can use it.
All the young achievers have got their heads in the books, not reading PPRUNE!
Last edited by pohm1; 14th May 2003 at 17:38.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
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Mate.............
You are putting far to much reliance on hours.............
How is your interviewing technique?.....your ability to breeze through the pre employment testing?....your tracking record, appearance, proven motivational aspects....these are what the industry is focusing on now.
If you really rang a number of local operators, all you got was the standard answer.......
If you fit the bill, and they want you....a few hundred hours will not be a consideration.
All you have to do is to become the wanted one!!!.....the one that stands out in the crowd....the one that has gone that extra mile......ok ok I will bid you goodnight now.
How is your interviewing technique?.....your ability to breeze through the pre employment testing?....your tracking record, appearance, proven motivational aspects....these are what the industry is focusing on now.
If you really rang a number of local operators, all you got was the standard answer.......
If you fit the bill, and they want you....a few hundred hours will not be a consideration.
All you have to do is to become the wanted one!!!.....the one that stands out in the crowd....the one that has gone that extra mile......ok ok I will bid you goodnight now.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Australia
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Redwine... I totally agree with you.
If a company wants you they will give you what you need... eg Instrument Rating, Sling, Winch, NVFR etc. Just make yourself standout from the rest...
I should know I was a lucky Son of a B!@ch a long time ago. A company needed experienced FO's to operate on a major offshore contract they had won. I had less than 100 hours on a robbie, no turbine, no NVFR, no IREX, no ATLP subjects, no nothing!!!! and as such I didn't get a slot , however I put myself in a position to be noticed and was put on as a FO to replace the guys who went off to the new contract. I now enjoy a multi-enginge/IFR Captains position on a number of twins, even though it took me a while to get there, they gave me everything I needed.
Hang in there!
If a company wants you they will give you what you need... eg Instrument Rating, Sling, Winch, NVFR etc. Just make yourself standout from the rest...
I should know I was a lucky Son of a B!@ch a long time ago. A company needed experienced FO's to operate on a major offshore contract they had won. I had less than 100 hours on a robbie, no turbine, no NVFR, no IREX, no ATLP subjects, no nothing!!!! and as such I didn't get a slot , however I put myself in a position to be noticed and was put on as a FO to replace the guys who went off to the new contract. I now enjoy a multi-enginge/IFR Captains position on a number of twins, even though it took me a while to get there, they gave me everything I needed.
Hang in there!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
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gullibell, how did you afford 190h heli?
there's no doubt about it, there is some lucky barstards out there (knowing somebody in a high place is a good one). i made a lot of phone calls but thats not the way to get your first job. driving 3600 km's didnt do it either. working in the hangar proved worthy though (i got a start at 77h heli).
and yes i would have my ATPL if it was'nt $2000 just for the books and what about the stupid money milking sceme from casa to do the exams?
ill do my irex first ($70 + exam i hope), cant afford anything else.
and yes i would have my ATPL if it was'nt $2000 just for the books and what about the stupid money milking sceme from casa to do the exams?
ill do my irex first ($70 + exam i hope), cant afford anything else.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Both Hemisphere's...Unfortunately
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Mr. Selfish!
Well you asked for advice!!
Having trouble getting invited to an interview?
Firstly I would obtain the services of a very experienced writer of resumes!!
In your post, there are at least three spelling errors, poor grammar, and you used the "I" word at least eight times.
Hopefully you don't sign your applications: Mr. Selfish [Nick names are sometimes reflective of a person’s character].
Seriously, if any application letter is poorly written, and not addressed correctly, the Operations Support Folk will put it to one side, and the Chief Pilot may not ever get to read it.
Image, confidence, grooming and presentation in all its forms "may" get you through the door, but a poor application won't get you invited to the party!
Having trouble getting invited to an interview?
Firstly I would obtain the services of a very experienced writer of resumes!!
In your post, there are at least three spelling errors, poor grammar, and you used the "I" word at least eight times.
Hopefully you don't sign your applications: Mr. Selfish [Nick names are sometimes reflective of a person’s character].
Seriously, if any application letter is poorly written, and not addressed correctly, the Operations Support Folk will put it to one side, and the Chief Pilot may not ever get to read it.
Image, confidence, grooming and presentation in all its forms "may" get you through the door, but a poor application won't get you invited to the party!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CH
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Apart from offshore and some EMS why do you need an ATPL and IREX? These aren't the only jobs available are they? I guess if you want to be an offshore jockey so be it. Pretty narrow occupation though.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Just wondering what an IREX is all about, how much flight and ground training is needed and what are the costs? Do you need a CPL first? Had a look on CASA but couldn't find any clear answers, many thanks.
Which Oz flight schools offer the course?
Which Oz flight schools offer the course?