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Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects

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Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects

Old 20th Sep 2002, 09:22
  #101 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: asia/pacific
Posts: 30
Thumbs up

Many thanks for the email address John. I seem to have lost my H.A. contacts since Dennis left.
captk is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2002, 15:50
  #102 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,048
Ahhhh... yep yep yep... no worries mate....yep yep yep.
Steve76 is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2002, 17:06
  #103 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: standing by my bbq
Posts: 105
Cool expatriate

I wanted to know what expatriate actually means, so I looked it up. According to www.dictionary.com:

"ex·pa·tri·ate Pronunciation Key (k-sptr-t)
v. ex·pa·tri·at·ed, ex·pa·tri·at·ing, ex·pa·tri·ates
v. tr.
To send into exile.
To remove (oneself) from residence in one's native land.

v. intr.
To give up residence in one's homeland.
To renounce allegiance to one's homeland.

n. (-t, -t)
One who has taken up residence in a foreign country.
One who has renounced one's native land.

adj. (-t, -t)
Residing in a foreign country; expatriated:

So by my reckoning, if you are no longer a resident of Australia, a true expat. then you are not bound by Australian tax laws, only the laws of the country where your primary residence is located. However, if your primary residence is still in Australia then you are not an expat, and must abide by Aussie tax laws. It sucks, but I think most countries are that way now. Gov'ts love to get their grubby mitts on any money they can, any way they can now.



Last edited by Randy_g; 20th Sep 2002 at 17:12.
Randy_g is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2002, 13:24
  #104 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Thumbs up

The word around the campfire is that another co-joe has resigned so get your applications in now.
Bluey Zarseoff is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2002, 01:39
  #105 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2
After this subject first came up, I did a bit of research on the ATO web site, and came across ruling IT2015. This concerns those working equla time tours overseas, and, in effect, says that in that case, if you're working everyday, exceeding the 40 hour working week, and not accruing leave, then the time off does not constitute a break in foreign service.

Therefore, under the 91 day rule, no tax is payable. If anyone else has read this ruling, I'd like to hear how you interpret it.

I gather the ATO is gunning for those pilots working for asian airlines, but living in Australia, not those genuinely living overseas for half their lives.

TorqueSplit is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2002, 02:25
  #106 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,615
Randy.....for what it is worth....there are about 260 million US citizens for a country about the same size as OZ.....and our rates are about 17%/28%/33%.......don't have the exact numbers to hand....thus I am sure someone will trump me. We would have had a real tax break under the new administration but we are still paying off Bill Clintons paternity suits!
SASless is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2002, 04:59
  #107 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Asia/Oz
Posts: 218
I have found the amendment as sent to me by the ATO and it is posted in its entirety below. As you say, normal time off does not constitute a break in foreign service, however it appears the amendment puts a limit on such breaks at a total of approx. 60 days per year. If you exceed that the whole lot will be taxed at Australian rates. I rang the ATO official responsible for taking submissions prior to the amendment becoming law, and quoted the specific example of a helicopter pilot doing 6 on/6 off tours. I was told quite categorically that a pilot in this situation would be subject to full Australian tax as a result of the amendment. The problem is that unless you get a ruling prior to commencing a touring job, you may not know whether or not your interpretation was correct until you get audited.

Income tax: foreign tax credit system: issues relating to the practical application of section 23AG

The following changes to TR 19/15 apply from 17 July 2002.

· Add the following paragraph:

9A. Whether a person is absent from foreign service because of recreation leave is a question of fact. However, for subsection 23AG(6) to apply, the recreation leave taken in Australia or elsewhere during a period of foreign service must be attributable to the period during which the person was engaged in foreign service. This means that, for the purposes of subsection 23AG(6), recreation leave can only arise where it accrues during the days that a person is actively engaged in foreign service. Annual leave that meets the requirements of subsection 23AG(6) will be regarded as recreation leave.

· Replace the content contained in subparagraph 11(b) with the following:

A period of foreign service is taken to include weekends, public holidays, rostered days off, ‘compulsory lay off/over days’, ‘grounded days’ and flexidays (which are not ‘available days’ spent in Australia), and days off in lieu of such, provided:
(i) such breaks are authorised by the terms and conditions of the foreign service employment or engagement; and
(ii) where such breaks are used by the person to visit or return to Australia they must not be excessive by comparison with the scheduled period of foreign service or, if the period of foreign service is ongoing, by comparison with the income year. As a guide, the Commissioner considers that where such breaks are used to visit or return to Australia, they will be excessive where the total of such breaks are more than one-sixth of the period of scheduled foreign service or, if the period of foreign service is ongoing, more than one sixth of the income year. Therefore, where the total of temporary absences is excessive in terms of this paragraph, each temporary absence will be taken to break the foreign service period, subject to section 23AG(6A) to (6E).
Rostered days off, compulsory lay off/over days, grounded days and flexidays are not considered to be recreation leave for the purposes of section 23AG(6). That is because such absences are not recreation days that are granted as a result of leave that has accrued while a person is actively engaged in foreign service.
Available days spent in Australia are not considered to be a period of foreign service. Where an employee spends available days in Australia, this period is considered to be a break in foreign service, unless subsections 23AG(6A) to (6E) apply. That is because such time is not recreation leave for the purposes of subsection 23AG(6), nor does it come within any of the temporary absences set out in paragraph 11 of this Ruling. If available days are spent in a foreign country, it is considered that those days will form part of the foreign service period.

· Add the following paragraph:

31A. The following is an example where temporary absences spent in Australia would be regarded as excessive.
An international pilot resides in Australia and is employed by a foreign airline on an ongoing basis. During the 2003 income year, the pilot flies for approximately 800 hours. She is entitled to six weeks annual leave and also has other days where she is not actively performing service, such as compulsory lay off days, grounded days and rostered days off, which in conjunction with her recreation leave she chooses to spend in Australia.

Typically, the pilot flies internationally (including stopovers and rests) for ten days and receives six days off. Assume that each six day period is spent in Australia and falls within the types of temporary absences set out in paragraph 11(b) of this Ruling. She also has an absentee credit balance - section 23AG(6B) - of three days at the start of the 2003 income year. Looked at over the 2003 income year, this means the pilot spends approximately 120 days (in addition to six weeks annual leave) in Australia on those absences covered by paragraph 11(b) of this Ruling.

In judging whether the 120 days spent in Australia during the income year is excessive in terms of paragraph 11(b) of this Ruling, the Commissioner considers that as a guide the total of such breaks spent in Australia should not be more than one-sixth of the income year (61 days) because there is ongoing foreign service. In this case, the number of days spent in Australia during the income year on temporary absences covered by paragraph 11(b) of this Ruling is 120 days and is clearly excessive.

This means that each time the pilot returns to Australia during the 2003 income year for the six day break, there is a break in foreign service, unless there are sufficient absentee credits accumulated in accordance with section 23AG(6B). In this case, the absentee credit of three days at the start of the year would be extinguished the first time the taxpayer returns to Australia during the 2003 income year for a six day break.

Moreover, throughout the year there would not be sufficient absentee credits that accumulate each time there is foreign service to cover the pattern of six day breaks. This means that each time the taxpayer returns from a ten day period of foreign service during the income year for a six day break, there is a break in foreign service.
As a result, there is no period during the income year where the foreign service period is for 91 continuous days or more. Therefore, the pilot will not be entitled to the exemption under section 23AG.

· Add the following paragraph:

31B. The following is an example where temporary absences spent in Australia would not be regarded as excessive.

Frank is an Australian resident. As a helicopter pilot, he enters into a one-year employment contract to work for a company that operates in the Papua New Guinea and Indonesian areas. The contract runs from 1 July 2002 to 30 June 2003. During that year, Frank habitually returns to Australia on days off in lieu of weekends and rostered days off. In total, he returns to Australia on these temporary absences for 50 days during the 2003 income year.

The temporary absences covered by Frank’s return to Australia fall within the type of absences contemplated by paragraph 11(b) of this Ruling and are not excessive by comparison with the scheduled period of foreign service (50 days out of 365). Therefore, each time Frank returns to Australia on these breaks, such breaks are taken to be part of Frank’s foreign service period. Consequently, Frank is entitled to a section 23AG exemption during the 2003 income year in respect of his employment income as a helicopter pilot.

Commissioner of Taxation
17 July 2002

Related Rulings etc:
These changes previously issued in draft Taxation Determination TD 2002/D3.

ATO references:
NO T2001/013093
Mark Six is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2002, 06:04
  #108 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
ATO for expats

I have attached another opinion for all those who like myself have been very worried about our collective predicament re Aussie tax status....but rest assured the ATO is like CASA ....you ask one person you get one answer ask another and it is a completely different reply! SO here it is IF you are on a touring basis then you are EXEMPT from Aussie tax as the time off IS NOT CONSIDERED a break in service....I already know of one bloke who has a written ruling from the ATO which states this secondly if you wish to claim NON resident status which will also see your Ausie tax liability removed you must prove that your ABODE is o/s...you can still have a residence in Australia but you must fulfil the definiton of abode..see ATO website...if you get audited and you claim non res but have a wife and kids in Oz unless like many of us you are on the outer in that department then you'll have a hard time claiming non-res status....The ATO should realise that those of use who earn our $ o/s are net importers of foreign currency and we still pay 10% CGT on everything anyway so we contribute ....perhaps if anyone gets stung by the ATO a call to Alan Jones may move some pollies to reasses the ATO's position anyway see what a group of beans counters have said this is their job to interpret such regs we should stick to what we know and leave the rest to the experts.

Tax Alert
Horwath Perth
Chartered Accountants
A Member of Horwarth International

Following the recent release of the addendum to Taxation Ruling TR 96/15, a number of changes were made to the original ruling to clarify the issue of rest and recreation leave and whether certain breaks in Foreign Service can be attributed to that Foreign Service. This will have no effect on Australian residence employees working overseas on fly-in fly-out work cycles. The addendum specifically addresses pilots with ‘grey days’ (grounded days, compulsory lay off days and rostered days off) which are in addition to recreation leave.

The addendum provides that period of Foreign Service is taken to include weekends, public holidays, rostered days off; compulsory lay off/over days,
And days in lieu of such, provided that these breaks are authorised by the terms and conditions of the Foreign Service employment or engagement and where such breaks are used by the person to visit Australia, they are not excessive in comparison to scheduled period of Foreign Service. Note, that these days are not considered to be recreation leave for the purpose of subsection 23AG (6).

The Commissioner of Taxation considers that where such breaks are more than one-sixth of the income year (61 days), they may be considered excessive and thus may not be included in an employee’s Foreign Service period.

It is important to note that this does not apply to rest and recreation leave as rest and recreation leave can be directly attributed to and is earned as a result of foreign service. Rest and recreation leave is not rostered days off. Rest and recreation leave is specifically included in an employee’s foreign service period in accordance with section 23AG of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936. Therefore the addendum will have no change to a contract or arrangement where an where an employee has a work cycle of, for example, 28 days in a foreign country followed by 28 days of rest and recreation leave.
mafesto is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2002, 00:46
  #109 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Utter drivel and misinformation

Unfortunately when you have a large area and a small population taxes tend to be higher. If Australia only had to deal with an area the size of Sydney then your taxes would be quite a bit lower.

Most of Australia's poulation is very high density (over 2/3 in 5 major cities) the rest mostly on the dense east coast habitat.

Unfortunate thing is most countrymen actually believe above spin from the dear people in govt and ato who have propagated this bullsh*t for so long that in has been ingrained into our culture.

The REAL reason income taxes ARE (not tend) higher:

1. extremely large section of poulation avoiding tax (eg small business and buliding and tradesmen.
2. extreme amounts of: govt administration, unecessary govt jobs, govt projects, etc (see Australian submarine industry)
3. large corporations, banks, etc avoid taxes in Australia

Any Australian working OS should NOT avail any information to the ato. Setup your salary paid into an offshore account - offshore countries have no income tax or laws pertaining to and bank accounts are kept private (www.wallstreetglobal.com)
if necessary obtain another offshore passport for travel on.
Finally do not vote for any Australian govt that has income tax rates above 30% as part of their policy.
Brudda is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2002, 06:17
  #110 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Howards land of opportunity
Posts: 23
To all you fellow Aussies round the world that have elected to work in professional positions overseas because the Australian income tax of 47%, plus the extra 10% GST tax plus the 1.5% Medicare levy tax and now the mongrels are considering an extra war tax. Just makes it impossible to get ahead here. Even if you work overseas you still have to declare your earnings to the Australian Tax Office. This mongrel Australian government encourage Superannuation savings for retirement, well you pay 15% tax on contributions, 15% tax on earnings and another 15% tax on final payout, what a laugh, the only country in the world that taxes super three times. There must be ways around this, apart from giving up your residential status here by having to move permanently overseas so you can earn a decent living to have a well deserved and comfortable lifestyle, have you found discreet ways of getting around this so that you don't have to pay this mongrel government anything of your well earned dollar?Sounds like tax free off-shore banking is the only way to go. there are only two ways to get ahead in Australia, be a politican or be unemployed with 4 or 5 kids living in sub standard conditions.
VH-WASA is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2002, 09:31
  #111 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Question Hours Building

Can any of you help me with regards operations that offer hour building in either Oz or NZ. Did hear of a guy who was happy to let you fly his Bell 47 while he was doing his commercial work and charged a low hire rate.

Am commercially qualified with NZ licence and am returning to NZ early next year to get my instructors rating to try and get my hours up to a point where people will atleast look at me.

Did get offered a position with Cabair last year as a Trainee Instructor in their part-sponsorship prog but not only did they want to sign me in to a 2yr contract at 12,000 pounds a year but wanted a further 24,000 pounds to bring me up to UK CAA spec even though I have a full NZ CPL(H) licence!!

Have also done a trip to Canada to find a job but no joy after travelleing 2500miles in BC. So any help will be most appreciated!

NeilBetts is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2002, 09:57
  #112 (permalink)  
Helicopter ringer
Posts: n/a
Smile Hour Building

I have also been told that you can pay to fly with someone who is already working, you are sort of training/hour building. I am in the same boat as you trying to score a job with low (130 hours) and would be very interested if anyone could post or e-mail me the details of anyone who will do this !
I have a cattle background and really want to get into the mustering side of the business but i need to get those command hours for the endorsement
Thanks for any advice
Old 3rd Nov 2002, 13:57
  #113 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In the Haven of Peace
Age: 75
Posts: 599
I've never worked for Cabair, but can assure that they were not trying to con you. You are one of the many people who have travelled to Canada, New Zealand and Australia and then discovered (too late) that the UK CAA will not recognise your licence (though they will give credit for half the hours you flew whilst gaining it to count towards the 150 you need for your UK commercial). It should be a warning to other would-be commercial pilots from UK seeking cheap training overseas to attend a schoool such as HAI (for whom I have also never worked, so I have no self-interest here) where it is possible to get a UK or JAA licence.
Have you thought of approaching a company like Bristow? They used to have an ab-initio training scheme and although it is now defunct, if you catch them at a time when they are in the market for new copilots they may offer you something. However, this will also probably consist of going to HAI in USA and signing a training bond - but at least you'd have a guarantee of employment with a large operator, with a reasonable salary at the end of it. Once you'd got a few years in with them you could apply to go to one of their overseas operations or look for employment elsewhere. I don't think they're hiring at the moment, but it would probably be worth sending your CV to Scotia in Aberdeen as well.
Good luck.
soggyboxers is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2002, 14:04
  #114 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 10

Thanks for the reply and wasn't trying to claim that Cabair was trying to con me. My point was that its a whole hill of money to spend and then be locked in on a pitance for 2yrs when it could be used to hour build with a commercial operation and be free to move if I wanted to.
The reason I learnt in NZ was due to personal reasons and am now back in the UK til early next year when I'll try to find work in Oz or NZ.
So if anyone knows of companies out there willing to do hour building at competitive rates please let me know
NeilBetts is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2002, 09:54
  #115 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1998
Posts: 15
Sorry to drag this one up again but I've been studying this and related posts and am still trying to get my head around it.

Say I am resident for tax purposes, ie house, wife & kids in Aus. But, I'm employed for an airline o/s. The airline is based in a country that has a dual taxation agreement with Aus. I manage to get maybe 8 (non-leave) days off per month in a block and I spend that time in Aus.

Do I:

1. Pay tax overseas only?
2. Pay tax overseas, claim it back and then pay tax to ATO, or
3. Pay tax overseas and then pay the difference between o/s and Aus tax to the ATO?

What happens if I am exempt from paying tax in the airline's base country because I spend most of my time out of that country on trips, which is the case? Do I then pay full tax to ATO?

I'm sure there are a lot of really smart guys out there who know how this works. Any advice hugely appreciated.
Finalgearup is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2002, 10:27
  #116 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 29
Here's some more...

Some photos flying around Sydney

Last edited by R405; 23rd Feb 2006 at 10:07.
R405 is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2002, 19:54
  #117 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Daylight Saving Free Zone
Posts: 731

This is a link to Cairns.

Cairns Airport

Last edited by Heliport; 10th Apr 2003 at 16:59.
sprocket is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2003, 19:55
  #118 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Thumbs up Just how do you find work with a bare CPl H in Australia

Hi, I have just gained my CPL H and am now looking for that first elusive position. I know people say go north but north is a big area in this country.
Can anyone tell me what operators are looking for in a new employee?
Where up north are the places that will hire new pilots?
Any hints or tips?
What are the best machines to be endorsed on?
Do people mind you phoning them or are they pestered by hundreds of phone calls everyday?
Any idea of how many new pilots are doing the rounds trying to find that first opening?
I have a cattle background and would like to get into aerial mustering but it seems like they have lines of pilots queing up to wait for a place.
I posted this cause i have no idea about your industry but really want to learn the ropes and prepare myself for my trip back up the top end, any help suggestions, advice or just having a laugh at my expense is welcome.
Thanks in advance
tippathplane is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2003, 06:03
  #119 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,858

Tippathplane, PM me some details, hours, types and background. I might have a lead for ya.
the wizard of auz is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2003, 02:34
  #120 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: AUS
Posts: 331
Where to start??

I would have thought that if you have good cattle experience a job in the top end wouldn't be too hard to come by. Forget the phone you are wasting your time.

Sell everything you own pack up the ute and head off. I would certainly visit NAH in Catherine and Heliwork in Kununurra. When you find an operator you like and a town you like, pull up get a job and keep on to them.

The hiring in the top end will start up again soon (feb & March) and you will need to be in place ready to start at a moments notice(or less). The guys on the spot get the jobs thats why you need to pick the company. If you are not around when they need you they will get somebody that is.

If you want to chase cattle obviously its all r22. If you are going to have a crack at top end tourist work don't bother talking to anyone until youv'e got that 47 endorsement.

Good Luck
overpitched is offline  

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