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Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects

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Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects

Old 13th Sep 2002, 12:55
  #81 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: queensland australia
Age: 74
Posts: 563
hi steve 76,

if i remember rightly you got your first job ***was it in australia as a copilot ***.

australia has done a lot for you, in a previous post you reckoned that working for a mustering company was a dead end, go nowhere job, in fact it is the largest part of the australian helicopter industry ( over one third of the aussie fleet), and has employed more pilots and sent them out into the world, (helicopters and airlines), with massive experience than any other part of it. helimuster has been the best and most generous company for employing new pilots and giving them their start in life than any other. it certainly has done you well even if you were only carrying bums around the gorge, then there is the trans tasman agreement that would have helped you. don't forget your roots boy. those that complain usually had problems getting on with people in remote commnties. too far from mummy.

by the way couldn't you get a job in nz ????.

and pohm1,

i see that you use "we" a lot so we can assume that you are "in" the company. so you might be able to tell us how many pilots get trained and end up on a 206 at the rock and how many get trained and don't. the ones that you reckon don't work hard that is. i guess that they can't give everyone a job can they. so we can also assume that the phones out there will be answered with a british accent.

i see by the last part of your post that you think that people knock your system why would that be ???

so i guess that means that when they (you) are training a pilot that won't make the grade they tell them to give it away or do they keep training them without telling them they are not pulling their weight and giving them a chance to go to another school, before they spend (and waste) $40,000. on false hope yea really!!

flying schools canvassing students with the promise of work has left a lot of unhappy pilots out there.

do your homework mikehuk, i see your in australia you may even be in melbourne, so the conversion rate should not be a problem so ring about. there are schools that will give advice without predjudice, i promise

(*** edited by request by PedalStop)

Last edited by PedalStop; 18th Sep 2002 at 01:33.
imabell is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2002, 14:02
  #82 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SE ASIA
Posts: 50
Australian Tax Laws For Expats

Hi Guys,

I am being bombarded with questions from my mates around the globe as to what I think of this new tax law that the ATO has put in place which affects Aussie Pilots and Engineers working abroad.

Can someone enlighten me as to what this change is all about?

RoamingCyclic is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2002, 14:17
  #83 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 325
One viewpoint amongst the Tax Agents [Leaked from the ATO] is that following the demise of Ansett.....a stack of guys [girls as well I suspect]..started working in Asia, and giving the ATO the impression that they were based there as well, where in fact they were still living in OZ.

Their "false" Asian addresses were discovered....and the ATO put plans in place to stop the activity.

Pity about the long standing Rotorheads/Engineers who spend more time away than in Oz getting snared due to the selfish attitude of some recent newcomers.
Red Wine is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 00:27
  #84 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: perth
Posts: 231
Im interested in exploring this more, if you are working in another country and paying the full tax rate there but tour out of Australia, what do you have to declare to the ATO?
sling load is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 05:06
  #85 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,048
My understanding was it was [email protected] all if you are out of the country for more than 180days. Somewhere around 2%.
I may have confused that with NZ laws however.
Steve76 is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 05:44
  #86 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 149
G'day All,

Think it has gotten a little more involved than that lately. I seem to remember quite a long discussion on D & G a few weeks ago on this topic. Probably get some more info if you do a search over there.


MPT is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 05:55
  #87 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,048
Coupla points champ....

* Never worked for HM. Never will.

* My first job in OZ was my 3rd in the industry. All previously in NZ.

* Signed up for frontal lobotamy and got citizenship in OZ, since I have spent more than half my life in OZ or PNG. LOVE the place.

* Plenty have tried to get on with those locals but few ever do. A couple of years was my limit. There is a first time for everything.. and that was mine. Still have a lot of friends with P&W thou

* Paid for my licence before the trans tasman agreement. Ask Doaky.

* No pilot owes any helicopter industry anything. I owe OZ nothing. I put in my blood sweat and tears downunder and got the rewards like any individual from any country working in OZ. Remember that immigrants built your country and the outback was opened up on the backs of chinese immigrants. Additionally, I received no help from any Australian but have helped plenty of aussies into good work up here.

In rebutal:

Your profile advertises you are with Bluetongue. Good on ya.
Obviously you are one of their instructors, so how about advertising your work history so we know who you are?

Q: Remember a harley riding, league player you trained? One of the most decent and nicest guys I have worked with. Ask him about his outback experience and the 7 months of FREE work (slaving) that he did at KG. He ended up out on his arse as well. Then ask him why after his commercial licence that he couldn't hover the aircraft he had 100hrs in? The operator up there treated him like sh$t and used his labour for the sake of it. He was never going to get a job and they verbalised it behind his back. That is the type of company up there.

I replied to all previous thread in an honest manner. Perhaps I am overly pessimistic at times. However, the opportunities outback are few and far between and it is a crying shame to see blokes spend hard earned bucks for a job that just isn't there. The training organisations on both sides of the Tasman are blowing smoke up these guys arses. What pisses me off are these "guys" are my friends or me. I hate the deception that goes on and will gladly stand up for my mates. Everyone I knew at the rock was doing it hard: Fact.
Perhaps things have changed and I apologise now if that is the case. But be sure to do your homework.

I will gladly supply you names and phone #'s of guys who will say good and bad things about mustering. It is a go nowhere occupation. I have two guys here on the 76 who combined have 12000hrs of mustering and are counting there lucky stars they are out. Others are too far into it to escape. I love the lifestyle too, but it has a used by date.

What you do not realise is that an english guy has a limited work visa. He will hound the outback, spend more bucks and generally come up fruitless. Seen them come and seen them go.

The bottom line is basic. Don't get sucked in by the rhetoric. As Blue Tongue state in their introduction. It is hard and its all about who you know. Good luck to you.

Last edited by Steve76; 16th Sep 2002 at 01:38.
Steve76 is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 06:05
  #88 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 149
G'day Mike,

Mr. Bell gives some good advice there. Professionals have a really good PR thing going regarding their job prospects after training. The question to ask is "how many pilots did you train last year?" The answer will be significantly more than 5, I would imagine!

There are quite a few schools around with very good reputations for the standard of their training. I'm not excluding PHS here, but my plan would be to visit / contact as many of these "quality" schools as possible before forking out my 40 grand. The cost of a couple of TIF's would be a good investment IMHO. Feel free to email me if you want any contacts / phone numbers, etc.

Good luck mate,

MPT is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 07:51
  #89 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 29
For those who may not be aware there are 2 operators at the 'Rock'. I would suggest calling/emailing both of the companies and touch base with the boys/girls actually doing the time.

Both operations are linked with Melbourne based training schools and of course both training schools would mention the fact that 'some' of the students do get the opportunity to fly punters around at the 'Rock'. I know for a fact that no promises are made. It would be a very short sighted policy to do so.

This is no different to other schools claiming a link or association with other sectors of the industry (mustering springs to mind) in a bid to attract students. As long as no promises are made then they are only stating fact.
Aladdinsane is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 08:09
  #90 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Asia/Oz
Posts: 218
I started the original discussion on D&G a few weeks back when I was emailed a copy of the amended tax law by the ATO. I published the amendment on D&G but didn't keep a copy myself, otherwise I would post it here. From that, and other correspendence I had with the ATO on the proposed amendment it appears that anyone doing normal helicopter tours (4 on/4 off, 6 on/6 off, etc), will be liable to pay Australian tax on the whole amount, just as if it had been earned in Australia. I think you get credit for any tax paid overseas but basically you will be forking out the same amount of total tax as you would on Australian sourced income. It all boils down to how much time you spend in Australia. I think you are allowed something like 60 days per year in Oz on top of "normal" annual leave (whatever that is), before you are considered to be residing in Australia, and therefore subject to normal Australian tax on your TOTAL foreign income. No doubt everyone will have their own interpretation so ask an accountant or talk to the ATO direct.
Mark Six is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2002, 11:12
  #91 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2

Yeah Airwork Helicopters are a good training organization, however you wont get a job from them, You might be lucky and get some scenic stuff with PHS or the Helicopter group both out of YMMB. ( I do hope those Brit pilots flying at the Rock have the proper Visa's and are not here stealing an Australians job. If they have the right to work here thats fine)
Steve i think i might have met you up at KT i was there looking for work a few years ago now, never got any and still havent found any!!! I remember the CP telling me "we got this 76 pilot working as a slave at the moment and about five other pilots in town waiting for his spot!!! I knew ARAB and had a bit of an accent
Anyhow i think most of the flying schools in OZ are pretty good, but it is very hard to get a start unless
1. You know the right people
2. You jump on the dole and work in the hanger for free!!!!!
3. You are just very very lucky
I dont agree with number two which is probably why i'm not working in the helicopter industry
fredmcknight is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2002, 00:07
  #92 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: queensland australia
Age: 74
Posts: 563
steve 76,

i answered your email before i read your repy in the forum so i will reply again, and yes is was not good what happened to gn , i was as disappointed as you seem to be. he played fror my local footy team while he was doing his flight training, we were all sad to lose a good player. what happened to graeme is very typical of what happens to many who try to break in to the australian helicopter industry. but i promise you he was very well warned before he started training, as all should be.

as i said in the private mail to you mustering is not a dead end go nowhere job in fact it is the largest part of the australian helicopter industry with nearly a third of the fleet engaged in it.
not that we have big fleet here, only about 800 machines in total.

friends that started in helicopters at helimuster and gained their experience there include four pilots that now work for, qantas, 707 captain, emirates, 777 check and training, chc, check and training on super pumas to name but a few. there are many success stories

i apologise to you here as i did in my private mail if you take offence at someone defending the system.

it is regrettable that so many pilots shell out so much money and don't achieve the goal of a working pilot but there are only so many jobs to go around. i have stated the statistics of aussie industry in the past and as long as we keep punching out as many hopefulls as we do it is not going to improve in the near future and tales of woe will continue to be heard.

those that succeed are the lucky ones that were there at the right time and place, like i was, and then it seems to all fall into place but for all the rest, and there are many many more of them, it's back to the old job.

as far as my backgound goes yes i do work for bluetongue helicopter services, (it is in my profile), as an instructor and i have trained about 250 commercial helicopter pilots (90% working) and i did tell the boss about what i wrote???. did he get up me??

you'll have to ask him youself,

graeme gillies
imabell is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2002, 01:40
  #93 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,048
Gidday Grahame,

Check your PM's

Steve76 is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2002, 05:03
  #94 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here,there &everywhere
Posts: 248

Depending on where you want to go.
Try Bankstown Helicopters in Sydney if you're heading that way.Prices are good and they have a variaty of machines.

you can find their details on the net.
Dynamic Component is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2002, 13:23
  #95 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SE ASIA
Posts: 50
Thanks Guys,

Seems that those of us that had the B's to leave our secure little jobs in Aus to seek a "Realistic Living" O/S are about to be screwed again! Good Old Aussie Government.

Thanks for the input guys.
Best Regards.
RoamingCyclic is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2002, 20:24
  #96 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Scotland
Posts: 169
Mark six

Can you give us some idea of the tax thresholds in Oz at present, I just wondered how it compared to the UK
MaxNg is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2002, 22:54
  #97 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Asia/Oz
Posts: 218
Sorry mate, I live in Hong Kong and I'm a bit out of touch with the scales. I wouldn't want to give you the wrong information but I seem to remember the top rate is close to 50%. For what it's worth the maximum rate in Hong Kong is 15%.
Mark Six is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2002, 16:15
  #98 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: standing by my bbq
Posts: 105
Unhappy Oz tax rates

For the chart on the ATO's tax rates go to http://www.ato.gov.au/content.asp?do...uals/12333.htm

0-6000 no tax
6,000-20,000 17%
20,001-50,000 30%
50,001-60,000 42%
60,001+ 47%
plus the medicare levy of 1.5%

Unfortunately when you have a large area and a small population taxes tend to be higher. If Australia only had to deal with an area the size of Sydney then your taxes would be quite a bit lower.



Randy_g is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2002, 00:09
  #99 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: asia/pacific
Posts: 30
Question Helicopters (Australia) contact

Has anyone got the email address for Helicopters (Australia) I can't seem to find it anywhere.
captk is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2002, 05:38
  #100 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 72
Posts: 4,227

[email protected] came up the web site, which you can find here
John Eacott is offline  

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