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Old 14th Jul 2011, 05:13   #841 (permalink)

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Training in Sydney?

Hey guys just a little background I'm a 21 yr old very interested in begining training to be obtain my CPL (H) and have been doing research about how to go about it. I have found some training schools in Sydney not to far from me (aerowasp helicopters and bankstown helicopters) but have heard alot more people talkin about PHS and chopperline which I am aware aren't based in Sydney. My question is does anyone know much about the training schools in Sydney or would I be better off relocating to Melbourne or QLD for example to complete my training at a more reputable training school and go from there? Any info would be very helpful and thanks in advance.
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Old 29th Jul 2011, 16:02   #842 (permalink)

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choosing a helicoptor school on Sydney Australia

Hi I am thinking of getting a helicoptor licence and have seen 2 schools at Bankstown in Sydney: 1)HTT helicoptor transport and training run by Mark Donohoe and 2)Bankstown helicoptors by Bill Miller.

The helicoptor transport and training have just purchased son cbri G2 helicoptors which they plan to use in their training as well as R22
Does anybody have comment or recommendations about either school.
Also does anyone have any comment about using a cabri G2 for learning to fly helicoptors?

Thanks for your advice
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Old 29th Jul 2011, 22:33   #843 (permalink)

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Hi Chopper77
I was in in the same situation in late 2007 when I had to choose a flight school in Sydney for my JAA license conversion. I was having the best feeling with Bankstown helicopters form the beginning but initially I chose HTT because it was a bit cheaper. I had 3-4 lessons with them before I went across the street! I found HTT very unorganized and impersonal A world of difference at bankstown helicopters, had a great time there with very professional instruction and a personalized plan for my CASA conversion. Would recommend it any time..
Best of luck
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Old 3rd Sep 2011, 15:58   #844 (permalink)
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Becker Helicopetrs and Chopperline in Australia

Hi guys

Love the forum, I've found it an invaluable research tool for someone like me hoping to join the industry.

And to that matter I have a question (or 2)...

I currently live in the UK but I'm looking at the possibility of training for a CPLH in Australia. Two schools I'm considering are Becker Helicopters or Chopperline, both on the sunshine coast. I did consider Banks Town in Sydney but I've been speaking to friend who lives there and she says the cost of living there is similar to London, so I don't think that is a viable option for me.

Does anyone have any experience/opinions of these two schools? Also does anyone have any experience of living/training anywhere else in Oz?

Anything you guys can offer I'd love to hear.

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Old 3rd Sep 2011, 17:28   #845 (permalink)
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I cannot comment on the schools themselves as it is many years since I had anything to do with flying training in Australia but purely on a location basis it is a no-brainer (for me anyhow).

Bankstown is in the Western Suburbs of Sydney and is (or certainly was) a very busy GA airport with more runways than I was entirely happy with and I found it all a bit confusing - I did my FW IR there. I stayed in a scruffy motel next to the airport and was more than happy when the course was over.

The Sunshine Coast is a very different proposition and is a very pleasant part of Australia with beautiful beaches, great food and a very laid back lifestyle. Both Caloundra and Maroochtdore airports are (or again - were) nice airports and close to everything.

Don't expect Australia to be a cheap option anymore though as the Aussie dollar is still very strong and prices for many things are comparable with the UK on a £ for $ basis.

Whatever you decide I am sure it will be a pleasant experience and you will be well looked after.
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Old 3rd Sep 2011, 17:55   #846 (permalink)
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chopperline uncontrolled airspace, becker, training conduct in controlled airspace

i prefer this :

Chinook Helicopters - Helicopter Flight Training School in Western Canada

(if you are serious to be professional pilot, just my 2 cents )

Last edited by rancid; 3rd Sep 2011 at 18:25.
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Old 3rd Sep 2011, 18:22   #847 (permalink)
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check your PM's
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Old 3rd Sep 2011, 18:33   #848 (permalink)
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I was just at Becker at the end of last year. All very friendly and good staff. A well run operation, and a very nice flying environment. I visited at Chopperline, and for me, Becker was a better fit. I had friends there, and I liked the airport environment better. Close to Noosa and some good beaches for some surfing, and a pretty laid back area.

As Eipiphany said. I was completely shocked at how much everything cost. It was my first time in Australia, and the Australian dollar is very strong at the moment. Add to that, the rental and training costs are very high in Australia. It was definitely a good spot for foreign pilots, and Becker had a lot of them there when I was hanging out, but towards the end of last year, they were really hurting for money as they were paying for their training in Euros, and this was no longer a saving, with the cost of living being so high as well. So make sure you have plenty of dosh to pay for training. R22 will run you over AUD$500 an hour, and R44 over AUD$1000 an hour. Plus the CASA costs and very high, and a nightmare to deal with. From my experience with Transport Canada, FAA, CAA and JAA, I found CASA to be the worst aviation agency to deal with.

Good luck anyways. PM me if you have any questions about Becker. Still know a lot of the people down there, and the Chief Pilot is an awesome guy!
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Old 4th Sep 2011, 11:58   #849 (permalink)
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Heliwest (Toowoomba - 1 1/2 hours from Brisbane & Jandakot - Perth)
R22 is $465 /hr for CPL and R44 I $715/hr for CPL.
(Add 10% GST for PPL(H))
Cheaper to live in Toowoomba than on the coast.
Heliwest Group
Just a thought.
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Old 12th Sep 2011, 21:36   #850 (permalink)
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As the winter and the offseason is closing in on the northern hemisphere I wonder if there is a chance off working down under during the next 6-7 months?
Would some company hire for the season and is it possible to get a visa?
I am to old for the working holiday visa, but maybe some sponsored visa?
I have 1400tt, 600 turbine, aw experience including longline. Also have a FI-H but no experience.
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 05:13   #851 (permalink)
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R22 is $465 /hr for CPL and R44 I $715/hr for CPL.
Still pretty dear compared to US rates. So, the AUD gets stronger against most other currencies, especially USD, significantly, but the rates don't seem to reflect the change in parts/whole ship purchase cost. Never going down.

$A465.00 = $US481.81 = ₤303.72
$A715.00 = $US740.84 = ₤467.01

Man. I could get R22 in the UK (!!!) for ₤280-290 dual and and ₤180 10hr block rate self fly hire. Or R44 for ₤460/hr dual (10hr block) or ₤390 (10hr block) rental. That is inclusive of ridiculous UK VAT rate. Sure, some non-English speaking countries in Asia can have even higher rates for Robinsons, due to the market and living cost/insurance/mx, but that's not likely destination for English speakers.

Australia's rates are about same in Canada for R22 and R44. NZ is bit cheaper, still a lot. South Africa, cheaper than Australia.

I know my quick review isn't fully on topic, but if Australia's schools don't look into things, they may lose way more potential customers/students to US. Or are they operating on tiny margins, considering the cost of Robinson stuff from across the Pacific?
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 08:13   #852 (permalink)
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Margins are as thin here as anywhere. It's not just schools charging that kind of money for Robinsons. $A800-1,000/hr is the going hire rate for a R44 with pilot. If it was possible to sell them cheaper, someone would.

Another difference is that Instructors here are usually more experienced than in the US, and that flight training is regulated a lot more. No Pt. 61 training down under.

Going to the US to train, then coming back to Australia and converting is not that easy, and about to become a lot harder, as CASA is going to increase the minimum hours for CPL conversions.
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 09:26   #853 (permalink)
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They way Australia is at the moment I'd train in the states. Australia is a very expensive option for visitors due to our strong dollar.
I've not seen or heard anything about CASA making it harder to covert your FAA CPL H when you come back. Sit an exam and do a flight test the last time I looked.
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 09:43   #854 (permalink)
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CASA is planning to change the rules to require at least 300hrs R/W before allowing a conversion to OZ CPL. At least that's what I was told by 2 different FOIs.

I also heard something about theory requirements, don't remember the details though.
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 14:21   #855 (permalink)
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I know heli hourly rate is more than just parts and machine depreciation. Labour, insurance, fuel, margin, pilot's wages etc. Still pretty expensive for what used to be relatively cheap country thanks to exchange rates.

Well, heard that too, on PPRuNe or Bladeslappers, about the conversion. I think it's not just about 'training standards' but more of a protectionist thing.

If I were Australian, I'd tell this bull to ehrm off and go to US, do 200hrs here for the price of 100 in Australia, then drop in to NZ to do CPL training as required and to meet NZ CAA reqs for CPL, then CASA can tell big, sweet NADA to NZ CPL holder. OR, simply do CPL module in Australia, whatever it's called, the CPL part, if that's feasible.

Anyway, I won't go to NZ or Australia (subject to no jobs etc) with much less than 300hrs rotary, so this won't scare me. True, getting job, even fresh FI in Australia and being foreigner, is another story..
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Old 13th Sep 2011, 16:58   #856 (permalink)
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Would it not be worthwhile to train in Australia rather than the states considering the difficulty of gaining a visa for the US and how easy it is for Australia? Also I have been in touch with a number of schools in both Florida and California looking for employment as a flight instructor and they have all warned me off going to America, stating the current state of the industry is very poor and the chances of getting a work sponsor is practically non-existent! Even though Oz maybe more expensive than the US I think I will choose to emigrate to there rather than the states...I am a recently qualified CPL(H) from the UK and its just depressing the lack of opportunities...any thoughts?
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 10:03   #857 (permalink)

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Just done my OZ conversions (JAR to CASA) and am selling up my books, they were hard to get in the UK so if anyone wants them you can pm me and I will tell you where on a popular auction site they are.

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Old 9th Dec 2011, 10:28   #858 (permalink)
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Best thing about Australia is the departure gate of any international airport
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Old 7th Jan 2012, 13:24   #859 (permalink)

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Questions from another damn newbie

After a TIF for my birthday I've been lurking this site the last few weeks chewing through the 10,000 posts and trying to digest everything.
I'm living in Australia, Sydney based for now but considering the likely hood I'll need to relocate at some point, either nationally or possibly worldwide.
Iím confident I can make it though a CPL. It looks like with (potentially much) time and perseverance and a lot of soothing words for the girlfriend it seem I may be able to get enough hours that someone will let me polish their helo and maybe sit in the back while they fly it.
I've weighed going back to Uni against flying, and figure the 3 years and $50 oddK stacks up about the same.
The main question is in 5 years time what is a reasonable expectation in terms of job/ money.
Give or take, what tends to be the break even point for people who do tick all the right boxes, get reasonable breaks and stay motivated to a long term plan?
Iíve read plenty of the "if you want money, go fly planes" posts, and thatís not so much the issue but at some point the missus is going to ask if we get back some of the 100 grand we have 'invested' in me having fun (it IS fun right?)

Is it fair to assume that the sort of company Iím going to want to eventually fly for gets calls/ emails daily from newbies asking all the usual questions and may not be especially helpful. Am I smarter heading to offfices/ hangers for an afternoon and chatting to anyone who will talk, or does everyone always have something to do? Will this change if Iím carrying beer/ cupcakes/ pizza?

Iím also trying to get a picture of the available seats in the industry, particularly Australia (because I like it here, and also due to the girlfriend having a fresh degree she should use)
Is there a summary of spots vs turnover vs incoming training?
I've read a little bit suggesting a heck of a lot of people finish their CPL then never open their log books again.
I presume plenty of this is folks completing, finding there isnít an EMS company begging them to come fly, then chucking it in.
Is there some other pitfall(s) I'm missing on the trip from CPL to 1500hrs
If at the end of the road thereís only really 25 "good" jobs and 8000 qualified applicants perhaps Iím better staying with the current job and paying one of you to take me heli biking/ skiing a few times a year.
Iíve spent a bit of time hunting around the CASA site but even if you know what you are looking for its a bit of a run around.

While Iím here, I cant seem to find a Glossary / summary of abbreviations(a sticky on the newbie page would be even better)
Have I just missed it? Can it be started? Iím happy to add the things that have confused me over the last 6 weeks

Finally I would like to state my great appreciation for all those who have contributed to the wealth of information on this site in the last
decade, Iím about sorry my rather long contribution, it did start out a lot smaller...
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Old 8th Jan 2012, 09:33   #860 (permalink)
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Location: Australia
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CASA is planning to change the rules to require at least 300hrs R/W before allowing a conversion to OZ CPL. At least that's what I was told by 2 different FOIs.

Are you referring to any overseas conversion to an Australian CPL(H)? Does that include CPL(H) conversions from NZ to Australia under the TTRMA?

If so, when are they proposing to change the rules?
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australia, becker, cabri g2, chopperline, helicoptor, r22, training

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