Converting non-JAA (Including FAA) license to JAA licence
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 259
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From: Oz
A little help for the newcomer, please...?
So, if you need to get a JAA ATPL(H), you need to sign up with a bona fide course provider? Are there any recommendations/links etc?
Presumably, if you sign up for the course, you can't take the tests until after 650 hours are elapsed!
So, if you need to get a JAA ATPL(H), you need to sign up with a bona fide course provider? Are there any recommendations/links etc?
Presumably, if you sign up for the course, you can't take the tests until after 650 hours are elapsed!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 900
Likes: 26
From: The Wild West... and Oz
mongoose237, I think you will find that most people object to taking exams that they effectively have already sat, plus the associated high cost (14 x 55 GBP?) and loss of time from work etc. The conversion of a CPL is just as bad.
Do you honestly think that the JAA standard is better than anywhere else world?
Do you honestly think that the JAA standard is better than anywhere else world?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 148
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From: europe
No I do not, but that is a totally different argument. And yes, I have done the conversion which I agree was expensive and time consuming but like many the lure of JAA was the larger earning capacity once converted.
Many people will argue that the subject matter is vast and largely irrelevant. An argument which by its very nature will show that many ICAO licence holders have not been taught several of the syllabus points.
The JAA is not imposing more onerous requirements on a licence convertee than on an ab initio. To allow people to convert without having covered the syllabus which they have, rightly or wrongly, deemed necessary undermines their entire system.
I fully appreciate that if I choose to go to say, Japan, that I will have to either jump through, or have demonstrated that I have already jumped through, all the requirements that they prescribe for licence issue. And pay exorbitant fees. Any argument that I may have about the relevancy of their syllabus is a totally different matter IMVHO
If I felt there was a disparity between how licence convertees and ab initios were treated, then yes my argument would be different.
Many people will argue that the subject matter is vast and largely irrelevant. An argument which by its very nature will show that many ICAO licence holders have not been taught several of the syllabus points.
The JAA is not imposing more onerous requirements on a licence convertee than on an ab initio. To allow people to convert without having covered the syllabus which they have, rightly or wrongly, deemed necessary undermines their entire system.
I fully appreciate that if I choose to go to say, Japan, that I will have to either jump through, or have demonstrated that I have already jumped through, all the requirements that they prescribe for licence issue. And pay exorbitant fees. Any argument that I may have about the relevancy of their syllabus is a totally different matter IMVHO
If I felt there was a disparity between how licence convertees and ab initios were treated, then yes my argument would be different.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 394
Likes: 2
From: Aus, Europe & everywhere in between
Mongoose
Obviously the Aussies, Kiwis, USA, Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc think that an ICAO licence holds alot of water if a bridging exam is done but the Poms do not! Cayman and Bermuda just validate another ICAO licence. You are not saying that the pilots flying these aircraft are somewhat sub-standard I hope?
Look, I (luckily) do not need a JAA licence and I am well aware of the requirements if I one day need one but the differences are huge between countries. Maybe the JAA should leave ICAO altogether.
Obviously the Aussies, Kiwis, USA, Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc think that an ICAO licence holds alot of water if a bridging exam is done but the Poms do not! Cayman and Bermuda just validate another ICAO licence. You are not saying that the pilots flying these aircraft are somewhat sub-standard I hope?
Look, I (luckily) do not need a JAA licence and I am well aware of the requirements if I one day need one but the differences are huge between countries. Maybe the JAA should leave ICAO altogether.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 148
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From: europe
No, I hold several of the licences that you list there. I have tried to make a clear distinction between what I see as 2 separate arguments:
1. The licencing standards; and
2. Disparity in treatment between people trying to obtain a particular licence
Yes, JAA should have a bridging exam, and I am sure that eventually there will be one. But expect it to be very large to cover the huge differences in syllabus requirements. Will that change much in reality? Surely just jumping through the same hoops but under a different title.
If the JAA felt that your flying ability was substandard then they would require you to undertake more flying training, which isn't generally the case.
1. The licencing standards; and
2. Disparity in treatment between people trying to obtain a particular licence
Yes, JAA should have a bridging exam, and I am sure that eventually there will be one. But expect it to be very large to cover the huge differences in syllabus requirements. Will that change much in reality? Surely just jumping through the same hoops but under a different title.
If the JAA felt that your flying ability was substandard then they would require you to undertake more flying training, which isn't generally the case.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 148
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From: europe
i4iq
Yes you will need to sign on with a course provider as either you are required to undertake their full course, or their Head of Training is required to say how much training you require. You can undertake the courses either full-time residential, or distance-learning with a series of progress tests and revision courses.
See Page 9, Standards Document 31 for a list of Training Providers
Bristol Groundschool do a very good distance learning ATPL theory course IMO
Yes you will need to sign on with a course provider as either you are required to undertake their full course, or their Head of Training is required to say how much training you require. You can undertake the courses either full-time residential, or distance-learning with a series of progress tests and revision courses.
See Page 9, Standards Document 31 for a list of Training Providers
Bristol Groundschool do a very good distance learning ATPL theory course IMO
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 259
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From: Oz
Thanks for the link mongoose237
I'd need to do the course from outside the UK. In which case, would the Head of Training assess what I've done by qualifications (eg FAA CFII) or by some kind of test? Also, would the stage tests be able to be done remotely too? Or are they done in some kind of controlled environment?
I'd need to do the course from outside the UK. In which case, would the Head of Training assess what I've done by qualifications (eg FAA CFII) or by some kind of test? Also, would the stage tests be able to be done remotely too? Or are they done in some kind of controlled environment?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 148
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From: europe
You would have to speak to the course providers themselves as to how they will assess your training requirements if you fall into an exempted category.
Certainly some of the ATPL distance learning courses can be done from outside the country, however others do require attendance periodically.
Bristol have a computerised notes and testing system, which can be faxed or submitted electronically for marking.
The only attendance is in the 2 weeks immediately preceeding the exams, which can be waived if you fall into the "determined by the Head of Training" exemption.
Certainly some of the ATPL distance learning courses can be done from outside the country, however others do require attendance periodically.
Bristol have a computerised notes and testing system, which can be faxed or submitted electronically for marking.
The only attendance is in the 2 weeks immediately preceeding the exams, which can be waived if you fall into the "determined by the Head of Training" exemption.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Likes: 38
From: England
Converting costs
Converting from FAA to JAA is really not that expensive. As far as the flying portion, as long as you have 185 hours (incl. the required no. of night, X country, P1 etc) you can do your skills test without having to do a 30 hour modular course of flying training.
The rules are the rules and if you want the benefits just get on with it rather than moan. If you dont like the rules then respect those who have had to endure 'The system' and have put their money where their mouth is.
Thankyou.
The rules are the rules and if you want the benefits just get on with it rather than moan. If you dont like the rules then respect those who have had to endure 'The system' and have put their money where their mouth is.
Thankyou.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
Someone above mentioned other countries just validate you license. Now that's something different then getting the countries full-license.
If you have a FAA license with enough hours, you can get that license validated here as well. But it's a validation and only valid for 1 year.
There is no real conversion to a JAA license as far CPL, IR and ATPL go. And there lies the problem. But everything will be solved when EASA takes over the licensing and the whole JAA system will be binned.
If you have a FAA license with enough hours, you can get that license validated here as well. But it's a validation and only valid for 1 year.
There is no real conversion to a JAA license as far CPL, IR and ATPL go. And there lies the problem. But everything will be solved when EASA takes over the licensing and the whole JAA system will be binned.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Likes: 38
From: England
Convering.
Originally Posted by jeepys
Converting from FAA to JAA is really not that expensive. As far as the flying portion, as long as you have 185 hours (incl. the required no. of night, X country, P1 etc) you can do your skills test without having to do a 30 hour modular course of flying training.
The rules are the rules and if you want the benefits just get on with it rather than moan. If you dont like the rules then respect those who have had to endure 'The system' and have put their money where their mouth is.
Thankyou.
The rules are the rules and if you want the benefits just get on with it rather than moan. If you dont like the rules then respect those who have had to endure 'The system' and have put their money where their mouth is.
Thankyou.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: ?
Originally Posted by HillerBee
But everything will be solved when EASA takes over the licensing and the whole JAA system will be binned.
I don't understand "binned".
And the JAR's are new. When will this be replaced by another system?
regards...
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 82
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From: Allovertheplace
Originally Posted by HillerBee
Someone above mentioned other countries just validate you license. Now that's something different then getting the countries full-license.
If you have a FAA license with enough hours, you can get that license validated here as well. But it's a validation and only valid for 1 year.
If you have a FAA license with enough hours, you can get that license validated here as well. But it's a validation and only valid for 1 year.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Allovertheplace
Originally Posted by Vertolot
Do anybody know when the EASA will take over the licensing from the JAA
This is written on my countries CAA website.
JAA asumed being shut down within 2007-2008, and will be replaced by a smaller organisation witch in co work with EASA will handle countries who is not a member of the EU or a EASA member. This is extremly important for a safe flightlevel in Europe.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 148
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From: europe
Well, that might be. But if you want the full license of another ICAO countrie. All you need is take the airlaw exam, and 1 flight with a "examiner".
For example, and I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the NZ licence requires some external load training. If you do not have that training, I am led to believe that they will not afford you the licence until you complete such training.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 8
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From: n/a
JAR to Canadian licence
hi!
I wonder about what should I do for a conversion from JAR licence to a candian licence. (sorry to be a little off topic).
Also I don't really know much about EASA, but should I wait after the 1-1-2007, to make a conversion of licence (maybe easier)?
Canada is all over! yeah!
I wonder about what should I do for a conversion from JAR licence to a candian licence. (sorry to be a little off topic).
Also I don't really know much about EASA, but should I wait after the 1-1-2007, to make a conversion of licence (maybe easier)?
Canada is all over! yeah!