Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hi Nav,

Go for it, remember " Tempus Fugit" once fugit has gone so have all your chances, don't wait , I did and now all I can do is think back, some say it is never to late, well believe me it can be too late!!

[lagonda]

Thanks - you are all absolutely right, it always helps to have someone confirm you are not off your rocker and it was the right idea in the first place.

Now to convince the wife.

[ 15 October 2001: Message edited by: Navig8r ]

[The Nr Fairy]

Now I think Navig8r has grasped the nub of the problem . . .

[Robbo Jock]

Navig8r,

I've done almost exactly what you're considering. I'm 41 with a not so shiny new CPL(H) (got it two years back) and back doing what I was doing prior to starting the course. I did the CPL full time and had an absolute whale of a time on the course, all day every day learning about flying, talking about flying and flying. Fantastic. Unfortunately, at the end of the course, reality sets in - you're 40+, low/negligable hours, you've probably got commitments which mean you're not as cheap &/or flexible as you could be and, as someone has pointed out above, you've got competition from younger or more experienced (or both!) bods. Am I bitter? No, that's life. Am I sorry I did it? No way! As I said I had a fantastic time and have achieved a lifetime's ambition. I still, whether I'm using it at the moment or not, have a CPL(H) and I can still get a job flying (there's no way I could if I didn't have the Licence!)

My one regret is that I didn't go on to do an FI(H) immediately I finished the CPL(H). I could be getting paid to fly at weekends with one of those. I was perfectly set up to do one: confident, current, crammed full of theory. Unfortunately I was also broke

So, in short, go for it, but try and get an FI(H) at the end of the course and best of luck to you.

And I would recommend Cabair at Cranfield - the CFI(H) is superb.

RJ

[captaindeakin]

How easy to gain a ppl H in 35 hours?

I've recently qualified with a PPL 'A' over one year with 59 hours in the book, only a few of these hours were jollys.

I would know like to learn to fly a heli, once I have 100 hours so that I can get the 'H' bit in the miniumum 35 hours.

Has anyone done this?

[lagonda]

Thanks for that dose of reality!

It had occured to me that the path to happiness at my age may be through bringing the light to others and passing on the wisdom of age as well as that of aviatin law and lore!

In other words - I hear what all you guys are saying and the resolve is strengthening - thanks.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Good Morning Extreme,
According to my Log book, I was solo in R22 at 11.2 hours, and passed my test at 36.3 hrs, Then I started to learn how to fly, and am still learning new things about the H flying today, as for your question as to " How Easy", I think its purely down to the CFi and your ability to pick up how to control an unstable piece of kit, oh , and sweat buckets in the process!
My Regards

[helimutt]

Extreme Danger:
Unfortunately it isn't possible to get the PPL(H) in 35 hours any more.
I did my PPL(H) first then the PPL(A). It did mean I only needed to do 35 hours fixed wing for that licence. The new rules (I think) state if you have a licence for fixed wing, then you can reduce the amount of hours required for PPL(H) by 10% of total hours fixed wing, up to a maximum of 6 hours.
That would mean 39 hours required.

Like VFRPILOT, I solo'd at 11 hours during PPL(H) training but that was in 1994 and no-one in their right mind should let you go off solo with that many hours in an R22. Most schools say over 20 hours before you can go solo.
I also took the test with 38 hours under my belt and scraped a pass and yes, I too am still learning.
Remember the new JAR regs state 45 hours for the PPL(H). It has to include 5 hours instrument appreciation flying. The only realistic way of getting a licence in minimum time is to do a full time course over about 3 weeks.(weather dependant). It's a lot more fun and beneficial.
Hope this is of some help.

[ 18 October 2001: Message edited by: helimutt ]

[Whirlybird]

I too had a PPL(A) and hoped to get my PPL(H) in 35 hours. It took me a lot more, and I now think that was a good thing. You can never learn too much about flying helicopters, especially R22s. I recently talked to a very experienced instructor who got his PPL in the minimum number of hours; he said he later discovered just how little he knew about helicopters. At the school where he teaches people never qualify in the minimum number of hours; ditto at the one where I learned. I know some people do at some schools; I wonder how, and I seriously wonder if they know enough to be safe. It's not that they can't fly the thing; you can develop the skills and reactions required in 35 hours. But with a helicopter there's just so much more....

[H-43]

ED:

Here in the States I was able to add-on a helicopter rating to my previous fixed wing rating in 32 hours. This was great in terms of cost and I really did feel quite comfortable in the helicopter, however, once I decided to go for my commercial and CFI ratings that wasn't so great because of low hours. I recieved my CFI rating at around 95 hours and it was a real chore getting a job. Finally found one flying with a guy in a Rotorway. I don't know if you plan to go on with helicopters but if you do fly as much as you can afford.

Brian

[captaindeakin]

Thanks for the info.

I'm really tempted to book my first lesson in the next four week to see how I feel about it.

What are the really differences between fixed and rotary in terms of enjoyment and do you ever get confused?

[Balance!]

Extreme
I must agree with all the previous comments. I don't think I really understood what was going on until Mr Balman shook me awake during my instuctor course.

On an hours front, we've just had a student (with PPLA) pass the LST with just 40 hours. He was good, had excellent feel, a sensible approach and was absolutely committed and like all 'go get 'em' youngsters we had to rein him in a bit every now and then. Nice thing is though, he realises that he's on the bottom step and considers that he has a licence to learn now

Regards the enjoyment of Fixed versus Rotary - Beware! I thought I'd had all the enjoyment I could manage after 22 years of fixed wing including a couple of years of aerobatics in a Pitts. However, someone stupidly suggested that I take a heli trial lesson. Wham - I was hooked. Nothing beats it for flying. Honest. I still do some fixed wing to stay current, but the pleasure and satisfaction of flying then blades beats trolling around in a plank anyday.

On a cautionary note though - in the early days it is possible to get confused with some of the control inputs necessary, particularly when under stress - but if you want it, you'll work it out

Go for it - you'll not regret it

[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: balance_trim ]

[The Nr Fairy]

In terms of enjoyment, I get more fun out of helicopters a) because it's an ambition held since I was 10 or 15 years old and b) because you can't relax on the controls in a Robbie you can't think about anything else - all your worldly woes are left behind.

[Whirlybird]

My experience was similar to Balance Trim's. I was perfectly happy, had a PPL(A) for a year or so, flown all over the country during my first full summer of flying, and then for something different I took a trial heli lesson. Half an hour, and I was hooked. I fought it, I really did. I said I was just going back for a day, then I said I'd just learn to hover. Then I did a quick calculation, and decided I could manage to get a PPL(H) without completely bankrupting myself, but then just fly once a month or so, which maybe I could afford, and stick with f/w the rest of the time. As the date for my GFT came closer, I began to realise that was never going to be enough. After I was told I'd passed my GFT, my first question was about going commercial. You see, I just HAD to keep flying helicopters, which meant I was going to have to get paid for it, somehow, someday...

While I was learning to fly helos I got a bit confused switching between the two, but that could have been because at the same time I moved to a different airfield and was trying to learn to fly a new f/w type! The consequent overload meant I had to keep reminding myself what I was flying. Although the airfield was happy for me to fly solo (f/w this is), I didn't feel confident, and for a while I always flew with someone else. But after a while that sorted itself out, and it's not really a problem now. Helis are much more fun, for the same reasons everyone else has mentioned. But I like flying both, and I'm determined to keep both licences if I can manage it, though it's difficult in terms of both time and money. Another thing is that R22s aren't really touring machines; they're small and uncomfortable. I have flown from Wolverhampton to Paris in one; I enjoyed it but don't recommend it really. Which means unless I can afford a bigger helicopter - or get paid to fly one - I prefer f/w to tour, helicopters to play

[Whirlybird]

Navig8r and Robbo Jock,

I'm older than both of you (oh no, I've just confessed that I'm not the sweet young thing I pretend to be!), and in the same sort of situation. I've nearly finished the CPL(H) course, and I'm nearly broke too. But I've had a great time, and I'll be so chuffed to get that licence that I don't give a damn. I'll go back to doing what I was before (and still am doing), get enough money to do the FI course, then hopefully instruct part time. Or whatever. No, it wasn't and isn't sensible in the usually accepted meaning of the word. But how can doing what you really really want to do and which you enjoy so much not be sensible? I too was afraid I was too old. But I was even more afraid that if I waited another ten years until I really was too old, I'd look back and say: "If only". Which someone once said are the two saddest words in the English language.

[Blade88]

The FUTURE?

What does the future for our profession as helicopter pilots look like?
Serving in the US military, I am very sheltered from the commercial helicopter industry, so my information is only from what I read or second hand from folks in the industry. I have been hearing of increased helicopter usage and decreasing pilot banks. In the US, I've been told that in the past, you could not swing a dead cat without hitting a helicopter pilot, thank you Vietnam era glut, is that changing? Two years ago the FAA showed a decrease in the amount of active CPLs and ATPs for helicopters, the first such decline in ages. Job sites are now posting want adds for pilots with much less than the 3K hour minimun we have seen in the past. I visited two EMS outfits in NW US and the pilots I spoke with were, well, I hate to say old, because I'm 41 myself, so perhaps, very, very experienced.
So what is the future for our profession, too many pilots and not enough jobs or future shortages of experienced pilots, any thoughts?

[whobob]

My two cents worth, since you asked !
Future looks great, if you consider why
( from a civilian point of view !!).
Companies don't care about you, so the attraction for "newcomers" is zip, zero,nada.
First you have to get the money to pay for flighttraining, which in Europe just hit
app.us$90.000 to get a CPL(H)+IR(me) from scratch. Then you have to get a "first" job, since you have no experience. If you do get one, the guy who hired you probably will pay you less than McD, burger king an the likes !
So most candidates, looking into the scoop of things, decide....Nah, not worth it ! Then you have a few, that makes it, but realistically, there's not that many selfpropelled people to secure the helicopter industry's future. Millitary pay's 1/3 more than civilian, so why leave ? So the people left, that hasen't turned 55, will soon be able to ask any $$ from these (soon to be) people loving helicopter companies, that really, REALLY likes you, and will give you all the things, like pensions, more $$$$ etc,etc,etc. My guess is this will happen in about 3years time, when most of the small to medium operators have gone belly up, and no pilot will believe any offers unless there's a written contract, sign up bonus, fair working conditions, pension ( a real one )and FAIR PAY etc.
Cheers

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

I've just started pottering about in an R22, because I am doing a deal with my heli instructor to convert him to fixed wing CPL. (3 hours in a Tomahawk for 1 hour in an R22) He told me that it was in the R22 flight manual that you had to have 20 hours before you could fly one solo, is that true?

Anyway I'm having a ball, loving every second of it, boring my husband and my friends to tears going on and on about it etc etc and eveloping very strong muscles in my right arm.
Trouble is ATC, who know me well, keep taking the pi$$ out of me when they hear my wobbly squeaky voice transmitting from one of the "angry palm trees". Especially when I hit the wrong button and say things like "Why the f*** does it keep DOING that??? OH **** YOU HAVE CONTROL!!!!!"
So to answer your question, Exreme Danger, the push to talk buttons are definately a source of confusion! And the proximity to trees makes me want to close my eyes, probably not a very good idea. And everytime I get close to the ground I try to flare it like an aeroplane, also not a very good idea, apparently.
Other differences...it freaked me out at first not having a nice plank wing to look at, and seeing the ground disappear between my feet. Still, I'm very proud that after 3.5 hours I can keep my hover within about an acre and haven't hit the wind sock yet.

I take back everything I said about you guys!!

[Rotorbike]

CFI

It isn't in the flight manual that it indicates that you must have 20 hours before solo, unless it is an Australian requirement/extra but a US FAA regulation.

In the US back in 1995 there was a FAA regulation by the name of SFAR 73 in which it states <<A person who does not hold a rotorcraft category and helicopter class
rating must have had at least 20 hours of dual instruction in a Robinson R-22
helicopter prior to operating it in solo flight.>>

Should you which to read the whole regulation it can be found at http://www.faa.gov/avr/AFS/FARS/far-61.txt and a short way down the page.

This is what is probably being stated to you and by the sounds of what your instructor is telling you it is also an Australian requirement.

[chips_with_everything]

Having just been through the CPLA to PPLH thing myself, and now going to work on getting comfy with flying both, I agree with the pile of terrific advice given on this thread.

My own extra- after completing the license I decided on a bit more training to cover techniques that are not in the Aussie PPL syllabus.

If the British situation is similar I'd recommend allowing about 40 hours for the license conversion training and test, then say 5 or 10 more for a bit of low-level, pedal turns, quick stops and torque turns.

These are items from the CPL syllabus that will sharpen your flying, and give you some options in your toolkit you will appreciate. Quick stops in particular might save the day in some situations.

Also I'm finding that autorotation proficiency slips, so need to practice autos with an instructor from time to time. See this as essential.