Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
Join Date: Apr 2000
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I'd agree with the very helpful post above with only one exception.
HeliAir at Denham is probably not much further from you. I think you'll find it cheaper than Cabair, and they have a far better reputation.
Good luck!
HeliAir at Denham is probably not much further from you. I think you'll find it cheaper than Cabair, and they have a far better reputation.
Good luck!
Join Date: May 2001
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I think there's not much to choose between Heli-Air and Cabair or any other -air, and even if there's a few pounds in it, go where you feel comfortable and they treat you well. Be demanding. You're the paying customer. Never pay a penny piece for anything up front, and if you don't like what you're getting, go somewhere else.
As stated above, get a medical first. I knew of a student who, despite urging, flew 17 hours before getting a medical, only to find she was diabetic. And yes, fly several hours before making a decision. Don't burn any bridges in the first flush of excitement.
Above all, know what you're getting yourself into. You'll pay a hell of a lot of money and work like crazy for years to get into a profession which offers little security, and even if you are moderately successful in it you will never be paid more than average wages. You've got to know you're going to love it for the whole of your life, because training for aviation means not training for anything else.
If you have the slightest doubt, go and be a lawyer or a doctor or an orthodontist or start a good business, then buy a helicopter and pay some mug to fly it around for you.
As stated above, get a medical first. I knew of a student who, despite urging, flew 17 hours before getting a medical, only to find she was diabetic. And yes, fly several hours before making a decision. Don't burn any bridges in the first flush of excitement.
Above all, know what you're getting yourself into. You'll pay a hell of a lot of money and work like crazy for years to get into a profession which offers little security, and even if you are moderately successful in it you will never be paid more than average wages. You've got to know you're going to love it for the whole of your life, because training for aviation means not training for anything else.
If you have the slightest doubt, go and be a lawyer or a doctor or an orthodontist or start a good business, then buy a helicopter and pay some mug to fly it around for you.
"Just a pilot"
helicopter pilot?
IF you decide to pursue helo flight, DON'T choose your training by price. You fly as you've been trained to fly,and (usually) you're alone at the controls. Build your experience base on a sound foundation and it will prove a bargain in the long run.
The major "scholarship" pogram in the U.S. is provided by the military. Costs/benefits have to be a seperate issue, if one is considering that option.
The major "scholarship" pogram in the U.S. is provided by the military. Costs/benefits have to be a seperate issue, if one is considering that option.
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I agree it's a mistake to go by price alone. On the other hand, more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better.
In fairness to Virgin, he wasn't suggesting HeliAir at Denham just because it's probably cheaper, but because it has a good reputation. I don't think any one who reads this forum regularly could disagree that HeliAir at Denham and at Wellesbourn always score highly in discussions when flight schools are discussed. Their other bases don't get mentioned so often.
Jof
A word of warning.
Experience shows that some people tend to recommend where they trained, or where they instruct. Take lots of soundings, a trial flight or two, and see what you think yourself.
Good luck whatever you decide - keep us posted.
In fairness to Virgin, he wasn't suggesting HeliAir at Denham just because it's probably cheaper, but because it has a good reputation. I don't think any one who reads this forum regularly could disagree that HeliAir at Denham and at Wellesbourn always score highly in discussions when flight schools are discussed. Their other bases don't get mentioned so often.
Jof
A word of warning.
Experience shows that some people tend to recommend where they trained, or where they instruct. Take lots of soundings, a trial flight or two, and see what you think yourself.
Good luck whatever you decide - keep us posted.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Hi,
I'm flying in Holland and recently finished my CPL (H) training. Finnally I now have my (dutch) CPL (H).
Indeed you should get a Medical and check out where you want to fly, but don't underestimate the theoretical part!
In Holland you need to pass for at least the CPL (H) theory, but if you want to join a big operator, you need to have passed for the ATPL (H) theory.
I saw a couple of enthusiasts begin with flying and the theory course. Some of them weren't able to pass for the theory, resulting in a big loan and a PPL with 50 hours of flight time, but no chance to obtain a CPL...
Check out how this works in the UK, and be honest to yourself, to determine if you're able to pass for the theory bit.
Good Luck!
Flying Dutchie.
I'm flying in Holland and recently finished my CPL (H) training. Finnally I now have my (dutch) CPL (H).
Indeed you should get a Medical and check out where you want to fly, but don't underestimate the theoretical part!
In Holland you need to pass for at least the CPL (H) theory, but if you want to join a big operator, you need to have passed for the ATPL (H) theory.
I saw a couple of enthusiasts begin with flying and the theory course. Some of them weren't able to pass for the theory, resulting in a big loan and a PPL with 50 hours of flight time, but no chance to obtain a CPL...
Check out how this works in the UK, and be honest to yourself, to determine if you're able to pass for the theory bit.
Good Luck!
Flying Dutchie.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Experience shows that some people tend to recommend where they trained, or where they instruct. Take lots of soundings, a trial flight or two, and see what you think yourself.
although I always recommend where I fly / Train, i tell people to look around for themselves before moving to fly / train.
I myself took a week down here to look at several operators, even though I kinda knew I would like Volar. You NEVER make a decision on training without at least visiting the place in question first.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Flight school
i would like to ask you somethink on this topics theme...
I'm 16 years old and in the january 2003 i will go in flight scool and hopefuly become motor-sport-pilot.
Here in slovenia you could then fly,helicopters or aircraft(with some extra studying for helicopters).
so i am asking you...witch ist the best helo to start flight training for helicopters on it?
we are small country so we only have these private helos:
r-22
EC-120
AS-350
SA-342 Gazelle
ENSTROM-....
...and on witch helos your pilots in yours country are having their first flights?
I'm 16 years old and in the january 2003 i will go in flight scool and hopefuly become motor-sport-pilot.
Here in slovenia you could then fly,helicopters or aircraft(with some extra studying for helicopters).
so i am asking you...witch ist the best helo to start flight training for helicopters on it?
we are small country so we only have these private helos:
r-22
EC-120
AS-350
SA-342 Gazelle
ENSTROM-....
...and on witch helos your pilots in yours country are having their first flights?
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Hi Jof,
I go along with most comments above but what I still miss and what is often overlooked ( I think with most of these questions like yours) in most cases is:
What are you going to do once you have obtained your CPL(H) and spent lots of money with only approx. 150 hrs in your logbook??
AND subsequently how are you going to bridge the time from obtaining your licence to becoming anywhere remotely employable, say with approx. 1000hrs... AND how long do you estimate that is going to take you??
I think these questions are also very relevant to consider.
All the best
Off road
I go along with most comments above but what I still miss and what is often overlooked ( I think with most of these questions like yours) in most cases is:
What are you going to do once you have obtained your CPL(H) and spent lots of money with only approx. 150 hrs in your logbook??
AND subsequently how are you going to bridge the time from obtaining your licence to becoming anywhere remotely employable, say with approx. 1000hrs... AND how long do you estimate that is going to take you??
I think these questions are also very relevant to consider.
All the best
Off road
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Have you considered the military option?
they pay you to learn, you get some excellent training in good machines.... and lots of hours.
there are probably lots of pitfalls in the military approach too, like having to go to places you may not like and minor things like being shot at.
there have been several threads on this option, I suggest that you search the forum. depends on age, too, as over approx 26 you are too old.
R
they pay you to learn, you get some excellent training in good machines.... and lots of hours.
there are probably lots of pitfalls in the military approach too, like having to go to places you may not like and minor things like being shot at.
there have been several threads on this option, I suggest that you search the forum. depends on age, too, as over approx 26 you are too old.
R
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military
i consider that,my father is also military helicopter pilot on B-206 and Bell 412. But i can apply for that when i will be on universe.
but i'm confused if they will acsept me,cause from 300 appled they only took 15. and it happens only in three years.
plus that im consernd about my health. if my eye-sight is not good will they acsept me?(my dioptry is -1 ; -0,5)
but i'm confused if they will acsept me,cause from 300 appled they only took 15. and it happens only in three years.
plus that im consernd about my health. if my eye-sight is not good will they acsept me?(my dioptry is -1 ; -0,5)
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
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Jof,
To get down to basics, if you want a JAR CPL(H) you will need:
1) PPL(H) - minimum of 45 hours, takes most people a bit longer.
2) Build hours to 155 hours.
3) CPL ground exams. I did the old National ones, so I'm not sure about the details of the JAR ones, but it's a lot of theoretical work, and at least some formal ground school required. A lot of the stuff you'll learn is not that relevant, and a lot of it is quite tough going and hard on the memory.
4) 30 hour (minimum) CPL(H) flying course, plus 5 hours for a night rating.
5) Skills Test.
This is the modular course; I don't know about anything else. If you do the above, which will cost you around 30,000 pounds at least, you will have a CPL(H). Great! Except no-one will employ you with a CPL and 185 hours. You then have some choices. You used to be able to apply for the North Sea oil companies, who'd probably pay for you to get an instrument rating, and then employ you. Since Sept 11th, they want you to pay for your own instrument rating - approx 23,000 I hear. Or you can somehow get to 300 hours and then do an instructors course, and hope that'll give you some work and a chance to build hours. That's what I'm doing, but there's no guarantee of work at the end of it.
There are other options, like going to the US, either to get a FAA CPL, as some people do, or doing some training/hours building here where it's cheaper (that's what I'm doing right now). But check carefully if you want to live in the UK; the CAA won't count a lot of it.
I'm in no way trying to put you off. I think heli flying is absolutely wonderful, and it's changed my life. But I had a means of earning my living anyway, and then inherited enough money to fund most of my training, and if it doesn't lead to a job, I don't mind too much. Go into this with your eyes open. I've seen too many people go to flying schools, get caught up in the heli training atmosphere of have fun today and to hell with tomorrow; they borrow tens of thousands with no thought of what happens if they don't get a job. Some of those are instructing part time and trying to pay off huge debts and somewhat disillusioned; I know some of them. It isn't worth it. Maybe better to get a decent career and fly for fun, or get some funding behind you and then do the helicopter training.
But if in spite of all I've said you decide to go for it, first do lots of research, and good luck. Flying helicopters really really is lots of fun.
To get down to basics, if you want a JAR CPL(H) you will need:
1) PPL(H) - minimum of 45 hours, takes most people a bit longer.
2) Build hours to 155 hours.
3) CPL ground exams. I did the old National ones, so I'm not sure about the details of the JAR ones, but it's a lot of theoretical work, and at least some formal ground school required. A lot of the stuff you'll learn is not that relevant, and a lot of it is quite tough going and hard on the memory.
4) 30 hour (minimum) CPL(H) flying course, plus 5 hours for a night rating.
5) Skills Test.
This is the modular course; I don't know about anything else. If you do the above, which will cost you around 30,000 pounds at least, you will have a CPL(H). Great! Except no-one will employ you with a CPL and 185 hours. You then have some choices. You used to be able to apply for the North Sea oil companies, who'd probably pay for you to get an instrument rating, and then employ you. Since Sept 11th, they want you to pay for your own instrument rating - approx 23,000 I hear. Or you can somehow get to 300 hours and then do an instructors course, and hope that'll give you some work and a chance to build hours. That's what I'm doing, but there's no guarantee of work at the end of it.
There are other options, like going to the US, either to get a FAA CPL, as some people do, or doing some training/hours building here where it's cheaper (that's what I'm doing right now). But check carefully if you want to live in the UK; the CAA won't count a lot of it.
I'm in no way trying to put you off. I think heli flying is absolutely wonderful, and it's changed my life. But I had a means of earning my living anyway, and then inherited enough money to fund most of my training, and if it doesn't lead to a job, I don't mind too much. Go into this with your eyes open. I've seen too many people go to flying schools, get caught up in the heli training atmosphere of have fun today and to hell with tomorrow; they borrow tens of thousands with no thought of what happens if they don't get a job. Some of those are instructing part time and trying to pay off huge debts and somewhat disillusioned; I know some of them. It isn't worth it. Maybe better to get a decent career and fly for fun, or get some funding behind you and then do the helicopter training.
But if in spite of all I've said you decide to go for it, first do lots of research, and good luck. Flying helicopters really really is lots of fun.
Last edited by Whirlybird; 25th Apr 2002 at 23:54.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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HELIPORT,
Unfortunately I do not have the answer and nor has anyone else.
The lenght of time between obtaining a CPL(H) licence and finding a position is highly variable and it is very difficult to estimate and in my opinion comes down to getting a lucky break somewhere from someone. This is not a problem if you are in it for the longhaul and have lots of patience and in the case you are married an understanding wife who has lots of patience as well.
I do not think that upcoming heli pilots realise how difficult it is to actually find a position once they get their licence.
I have had the same problem it has taken me 6 years to get full time flying employment and I travelled halfway around the world to finally get one.
I do not want to be pessimistic but rather tell the facts how I think they are.
Safe flying
Unfortunately I do not have the answer and nor has anyone else.
The lenght of time between obtaining a CPL(H) licence and finding a position is highly variable and it is very difficult to estimate and in my opinion comes down to getting a lucky break somewhere from someone. This is not a problem if you are in it for the longhaul and have lots of patience and in the case you are married an understanding wife who has lots of patience as well.
I do not think that upcoming heli pilots realise how difficult it is to actually find a position once they get their licence.
I have had the same problem it has taken me 6 years to get full time flying employment and I travelled halfway around the world to finally get one.
I do not want to be pessimistic but rather tell the facts how I think they are.
Safe flying
Just Dropped In
Join Date: May 2001
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Just a quick note!
Cabair!
I did my licences with them after I left the Navy.
The Helo instructor himself was top notch.
The company was terrible!
Obviously each to their own, but I wouldn't go to them if it were me!
Look around & find what best suits you.
Cabair!
I did my licences with them after I left the Navy.
The Helo instructor himself was top notch.
The company was terrible!
Obviously each to their own, but I wouldn't go to them if it were me!
Look around & find what best suits you.
Join Date: May 2001
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If Cabair is so bad, how come they're still in business when so many others have fallen by the wayside? I've hardly seen a good word about them on this forum, so it can't be word of mouth.
"Just a pilot"
helicopter pilot?
The type of helo used for your flight training is not particularly important. I can't tell who trained on what type by the time they're experienced professionals-or serious amateurs, for that matter.
Quality of instruction is everything. Big, formal school or one guy with access to a helo-a serious student and a knowledgeable professional instructor who's available and compatible, is the successful combination you want to make. Advanage big school-if you and the instructor don't click for whatever reason (it happens), you may be able to switch without starting the hunt again.
You'll learn a lot after the course is complete. You'll understand more, and more quickly with good basic instruction-not to mention surviving the first 1,000 hours because you were well taught.
Quality of instruction is everything. Big, formal school or one guy with access to a helo-a serious student and a knowledgeable professional instructor who's available and compatible, is the successful combination you want to make. Advanage big school-if you and the instructor don't click for whatever reason (it happens), you may be able to switch without starting the hunt again.
You'll learn a lot after the course is complete. You'll understand more, and more quickly with good basic instruction-not to mention surviving the first 1,000 hours because you were well taught.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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How long did it take you...
Hi Folks,
Well we have quite a number of pilots on this forum now and more and more wannabees and starters joining this forum I thought it maybe prudent to give an insight to these W's and S's to tell them what really happens once you've obtained your licence.
How long did it take you to become full time employed after you got your licence?
How many hours did you have when you became employed?
In what field did you work when you started flying?
What endorsements did you hold?
Feel free to add other questions to this as you answer.
I know there are (ex)military pilots amongst us well,and although they started off in a different way than most commercially trained pilots, I would still appreciate their comments as well.
Thanking you for the input in advance.
Safe flying
Off road
Well we have quite a number of pilots on this forum now and more and more wannabees and starters joining this forum I thought it maybe prudent to give an insight to these W's and S's to tell them what really happens once you've obtained your licence.
How long did it take you to become full time employed after you got your licence?
How many hours did you have when you became employed?
In what field did you work when you started flying?
What endorsements did you hold?
Feel free to add other questions to this as you answer.
I know there are (ex)military pilots amongst us well,and although they started off in a different way than most commercially trained pilots, I would still appreciate their comments as well.
Thanking you for the input in advance.
Safe flying
Off road
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, wife nagging, make sure that, prior to forking out the dosh, you can pass all the medical requirements!
Good luck, enjoy.
Good luck, enjoy.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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At the time I completed my Commercial Helicopter licence, I was employed as a licenced Engineer (AME-R) with OKanagan Helicopters in Vancouver BC. I still had to work a further YEAR on the ground before getting a shot at a flying seat.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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FAA Commercial gained on 15th December.
Home for Christmas and weather like you wouldn't believe through Jan, Feb and March.
Instrument Instructor 6th April.
Employed 22nd April.
Same State different company, Instructing.
200 hours total.
Personal opinion is get every rating out there and then bang on doors. I choose the telephone directory, spent a few days in the library researching, then calling. Just got lucky and found an empty hole.
Seven years ago with three months unemployed since.
Home for Christmas and weather like you wouldn't believe through Jan, Feb and March.
Instrument Instructor 6th April.
Employed 22nd April.
Same State different company, Instructing.
200 hours total.
Personal opinion is get every rating out there and then bang on doors. I choose the telephone directory, spent a few days in the library researching, then calling. Just got lucky and found an empty hole.
Seven years ago with three months unemployed since.