Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
I was fortunate enough to learn at a school that could cover all the desirable add-ons. In a concentrated 3-month course, I did all the ground school, aircraft knowledge, and 105 hours of flying training to get: basic qualification, endorsements for low level , night VFR, sling , hoist , turbine, formation, and Instrument Rating. Very hard work, but achievable.
They even gave me a job straight out of school, as long as I wore their Blue Suit for a certain number of years.
They even gave me a job straight out of school, as long as I wore their Blue Suit for a certain number of years.
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theraingod....
About 5 years in total, including instructor rating, CPL and an instructing job.
I didnt believe it possible 5 years ago, but I just took it one step at a time and I ended up at the right place at the right time. Dont ask me how I managed that bit......there are some things in this world you cant explain.
cod
About 5 years in total, including instructor rating, CPL and an instructing job.
I didnt believe it possible 5 years ago, but I just took it one step at a time and I ended up at the right place at the right time. Dont ask me how I managed that bit......there are some things in this world you cant explain.
cod
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thanks crashondeck, sounds like you did well.
Good to know that people have got what they wanted within some kind of decent time frame and that it is not all ex-army.
Just out of interest does anyone have any idea of the percentage of ex-army to civilian pilots?
Good to know that people have got what they wanted within some kind of decent time frame and that it is not all ex-army.
Just out of interest does anyone have any idea of the percentage of ex-army to civilian pilots?
Crashondeck - perhaps you can post some advice to Calli on his 'flying for HM coastguard thread' since you appear to be in the job.
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Crashondeck
Do you think the only way to SAR is through NS job??
I am in your position 5 years ago and think the same thing you did, nice to know that there is a chance, even if it is a small one.
SAR..ahh my dream job
Do you think the only way to SAR is through NS job??
I am in your position 5 years ago and think the same thing you did, nice to know that there is a chance, even if it is a small one.
SAR..ahh my dream job
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Training and Job Prospects - Help !!!!!
For the last six months I have been researching a career in fixed-wing aviation. Right now things seem to be (very) gloomy at the recruitment end of things, with what seems to be a surplus of well-qualified pilots. I hadn't really thought about rotory as I assumed the cost to be prohibitive. That is until now.
Having recently checked out a few websites I have formulated a few ideas and would appreciate if anyone could help substantiate these or blow me out the sky (pardon the pun).
Is the job-market reasonably buoyant at the moment, and how do things seem to be going? I would not look to become qualified for about 3 years.
Also, what prospects are there for a new guy with low-hours?
Finally, I understand that there is not much logic in going abroad for cheaper training. Is this the case? Will I just end up shelling out more to convert or can the costs be justified?
Any advice to a wanabee is appreciated as I've now confused myself ie. fixed wing/rotory.........
Regards,
Skint.
Having recently checked out a few websites I have formulated a few ideas and would appreciate if anyone could help substantiate these or blow me out the sky (pardon the pun).
Is the job-market reasonably buoyant at the moment, and how do things seem to be going? I would not look to become qualified for about 3 years.
Also, what prospects are there for a new guy with low-hours?
Finally, I understand that there is not much logic in going abroad for cheaper training. Is this the case? Will I just end up shelling out more to convert or can the costs be justified?
Any advice to a wanabee is appreciated as I've now confused myself ie. fixed wing/rotory.........
Regards,
Skint.
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Skint,
you are not the first (and probably won't be the last) guy to raise this one. Do a search into past threads and you will dig up all sorts of detailed advice & opinions, some of it good.
A couple of thoughts about your comments:
Helicopters is not the place to go to earn either a good or an easy living at any time. There is only one reason to do it, IMHO: because you love it, and aren't going to be happy unless you do.
Planks are easier, cheaper and with more scope for earning more.
From where I am in the industry, now is not a good time to be starting. Demand is low, supply is not short.
If you are going to succeed in helicopters nothing I say will stop you anyway..................
Good Luck, if you decide to do it.
you are not the first (and probably won't be the last) guy to raise this one. Do a search into past threads and you will dig up all sorts of detailed advice & opinions, some of it good.
A couple of thoughts about your comments:
Helicopters is not the place to go to earn either a good or an easy living at any time. There is only one reason to do it, IMHO: because you love it, and aren't going to be happy unless you do.
Planks are easier, cheaper and with more scope for earning more.
From where I am in the industry, now is not a good time to be starting. Demand is low, supply is not short.
If you are going to succeed in helicopters nothing I say will stop you anyway..................
Good Luck, if you decide to do it.
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Skint
I just wrote a nice big reply but lost it all....nice....so here it is in brief.
1. Helicopter industry is just as hard if not harder to crack than fixed wing (in my opinion)
2. Will cost you alot more to achieve
3. Money is not as good etc etc
4. Training overseas, loads of links. but in general, conversion costs etc, meeting the right people, blah blah, loads more im sure.
Anyway there's my ten cents worth
Good luck
RM
I just wrote a nice big reply but lost it all....nice....so here it is in brief.
1. Helicopter industry is just as hard if not harder to crack than fixed wing (in my opinion)
2. Will cost you alot more to achieve
3. Money is not as good etc etc
4. Training overseas, loads of links. but in general, conversion costs etc, meeting the right people, blah blah, loads more im sure.
Anyway there's my ten cents worth
Good luck
RM
This comment about the money not being as good is BS.
Plank drivers live on pitance all around the world because there is usually a surplus of them. Certainly the heavy drivers are on 6 figure but on average you need to be flying a 737 to get that or be in command of something like and RJ90/146. The cojoe on the RJ and the captains of things like the Dash 8 are most likely on 60K. If you do your time in the bush (1000-2000hrs) then convert to IFR (twins) you can do your cojoe time in 2 years and then pick up a captains slot on 60K-70K.
So that's 5-6 years verses 10 to 15+ in the FW world. Remember, only a small small portion of the FW mob end up in the 6 figure bracket and they are often in the twilight of their career......and who the hell wants to be a bus driver anyway?
Plank drivers live on pitance all around the world because there is usually a surplus of them. Certainly the heavy drivers are on 6 figure but on average you need to be flying a 737 to get that or be in command of something like and RJ90/146. The cojoe on the RJ and the captains of things like the Dash 8 are most likely on 60K. If you do your time in the bush (1000-2000hrs) then convert to IFR (twins) you can do your cojoe time in 2 years and then pick up a captains slot on 60K-70K.
So that's 5-6 years verses 10 to 15+ in the FW world. Remember, only a small small portion of the FW mob end up in the 6 figure bracket and they are often in the twilight of their career......and who the hell wants to be a bus driver anyway?
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How many CPLs are produced in the US every year?
I have been looking at a lot of flight schools to begin this as a career. The more schools I talk to, the more it adds to this nagging question I have. Will there be a job for me after I get over one thousand hours? The irrational, "Flying is so cool" part of my brain says go for it a job will come.
The logical part of my brain says don't be a fool. By my count, the latest FAA advisory circular lists 44 Part 141 operators. If I conservatively estimate that each of these graduates 10 people in a year that means 400 pilots are added to the market annually. Who knows how many the Part 61 schools pump out. Yes some foreign people will leave, but that number is nominal. From the research I've been able to do on the BLS and other websites, industry job growth is much less than 400 jobs per year. I think schools now are too adept at signing students. They are getting too many people to join up. The only result I see from this is an ever-growing capacity for instructing new students.
Most schools have an enticement in their marketing materials about the demographic change that's sweeping through the pilot ranks now. They say all the Vietnam era pilots are on the verge of retiring. From what I see on the forum, that is inaccurate at best. With no FAA age restriction and (theoretically) better working conditions, why would you leave this gig? Even if you all magically left, operators will just starting hiring 300 hour pilots in droves? Not likely.
Now I know I will never get rich being a pilot, but I would like to get a job so I can pay off whatever I have to borrow. As an instructor flying 20 hours per week, the banks will have my a$$ in no time.
I am looking for opinions on either side of the argument -- to be or not to be. And if my numbers are out of line, let me know.
Thanks from a newbie. And sorry for a massive post.
Andy
The logical part of my brain says don't be a fool. By my count, the latest FAA advisory circular lists 44 Part 141 operators. If I conservatively estimate that each of these graduates 10 people in a year that means 400 pilots are added to the market annually. Who knows how many the Part 61 schools pump out. Yes some foreign people will leave, but that number is nominal. From the research I've been able to do on the BLS and other websites, industry job growth is much less than 400 jobs per year. I think schools now are too adept at signing students. They are getting too many people to join up. The only result I see from this is an ever-growing capacity for instructing new students.
Most schools have an enticement in their marketing materials about the demographic change that's sweeping through the pilot ranks now. They say all the Vietnam era pilots are on the verge of retiring. From what I see on the forum, that is inaccurate at best. With no FAA age restriction and (theoretically) better working conditions, why would you leave this gig? Even if you all magically left, operators will just starting hiring 300 hour pilots in droves? Not likely.
Now I know I will never get rich being a pilot, but I would like to get a job so I can pay off whatever I have to borrow. As an instructor flying 20 hours per week, the banks will have my a$$ in no time.
I am looking for opinions on either side of the argument -- to be or not to be. And if my numbers are out of line, let me know.
Thanks from a newbie. And sorry for a massive post.
Andy
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Don't apologize for a massive post. Good questions, and ones that need to be looked at before venturing in to a very expensive field.
I'd check with HAI, as they keep pretty good statistics on this sort of thing.
The pool of suitable pilots is, in my view, quite shallow, and once the aviation business picks up, will rapidly become much more shallow. This is particularly true in the helicopter business. No detailed, rational basis for my view, except some discussions with operators.
Get a variety of types, and keep learning.
Is joining a military an option? Might be a cheaper way than paying for it yourself.
I'd check with HAI, as they keep pretty good statistics on this sort of thing.
The pool of suitable pilots is, in my view, quite shallow, and once the aviation business picks up, will rapidly become much more shallow. This is particularly true in the helicopter business. No detailed, rational basis for my view, except some discussions with operators.
Get a variety of types, and keep learning.
Is joining a military an option? Might be a cheaper way than paying for it yourself.
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starting out
Hi Guys and Gals,
I need some help please!
I want to become a pro-pilot and do my ppl(h) which I am going to pay for up front, followed by my cpl(h) which I know is going to cost me a arm and a leg. On passing these what would you advise my next step to be in order to build hours. Also what ratings will I need in order of importance to get a job.
I have heard I can get a interest free loan for training and payment holidays from the goverment. is this true.
I am 33, am I to old to start a career or sholud I just get my ppl and have a hobby?
Also what kind of hours will I need to get my first job and whats it likely to pay and what will it be doing.
determined to live my dream.
Thanks for the help ppl.
Bill
I need some help please!
I want to become a pro-pilot and do my ppl(h) which I am going to pay for up front, followed by my cpl(h) which I know is going to cost me a arm and a leg. On passing these what would you advise my next step to be in order to build hours. Also what ratings will I need in order of importance to get a job.
I have heard I can get a interest free loan for training and payment holidays from the goverment. is this true.
I am 33, am I to old to start a career or sholud I just get my ppl and have a hobby?
Also what kind of hours will I need to get my first job and whats it likely to pay and what will it be doing.
determined to live my dream.
Thanks for the help ppl.
Bill
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hi,
there are basically 3 career paths once you have your shiny new CPL(H)
1) go straight to the north sea as a co-pilot on the super puma, or maybe S76 or dauphine. starting salary approx £30k
very difficult at moment because you also need an instrument rating, IR(H), and they cost maybe £30k, and the offshore companies arent hiring either at the moment they are losing people (CHC), I know bond are hiring but IMO the chances are poor, given the competition.
2) get commercial work onshore with your shiny new CPL, on a jetranger or such like, with less than 200 hours total, the chances of getting this kind of work are low, most companies will not even entertain the thought. starting salary, freelance maybe £150 a day or even for free sometimes
3) build your hours to 300 total, then do a flight instructor course which lasts 30 hours, and then start teaching people for trial lessons and for their PPL(H), then when you have many more hours i.e. 1000+, you hopefully will start to pick up commercial work and maybe go to north sea, the only problem is that the PPL + CPL will cost you at least £40k, and the extra hourbuilding plus instructor course will cost another £20k. starting salary freelance at maybe £35-40 per hour flight time. you will be lucky to get 200 hours in first year, difficult to fly more than about 500 hours per year after that i.e £20k, it is hard work and always have to work weekends
option 3 is the best and lowest risk option and will cost you £60k+
options 1/2 are high risk and less likely to work and will cost you £40k+
when you have got some regular flight instruction, add to your ratings with an R44 and B206 to add more strings to your bow.
this is my opinion as a pilot now working offshore who built experience via instruction and then onshore commercial work first.
anyone care to expand / take issue with the above ?,
there are basically 3 career paths once you have your shiny new CPL(H)
1) go straight to the north sea as a co-pilot on the super puma, or maybe S76 or dauphine. starting salary approx £30k
very difficult at moment because you also need an instrument rating, IR(H), and they cost maybe £30k, and the offshore companies arent hiring either at the moment they are losing people (CHC), I know bond are hiring but IMO the chances are poor, given the competition.
2) get commercial work onshore with your shiny new CPL, on a jetranger or such like, with less than 200 hours total, the chances of getting this kind of work are low, most companies will not even entertain the thought. starting salary, freelance maybe £150 a day or even for free sometimes
3) build your hours to 300 total, then do a flight instructor course which lasts 30 hours, and then start teaching people for trial lessons and for their PPL(H), then when you have many more hours i.e. 1000+, you hopefully will start to pick up commercial work and maybe go to north sea, the only problem is that the PPL + CPL will cost you at least £40k, and the extra hourbuilding plus instructor course will cost another £20k. starting salary freelance at maybe £35-40 per hour flight time. you will be lucky to get 200 hours in first year, difficult to fly more than about 500 hours per year after that i.e £20k, it is hard work and always have to work weekends
option 3 is the best and lowest risk option and will cost you £60k+
options 1/2 are high risk and less likely to work and will cost you £40k+
when you have got some regular flight instruction, add to your ratings with an R44 and B206 to add more strings to your bow.
this is my opinion as a pilot now working offshore who built experience via instruction and then onshore commercial work first.
anyone care to expand / take issue with the above ?,
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bill bridge
This is going to cost you the white out of your eyes to.
I suggest you look into going to the US and do your training there. There are JAA helicopter flight schools in the US and much better opportunities to get a flight instructor job there than anywhere else.
Do some research on your own and pick one way to go and do it sooner than later because, well, you aren't getting any younger...
I have heard of guys starting flying around the age of 40 and making it all the way to a nice heli job. Still anything can be done.
PM me if you like.
Best of luck.
Heli Ice
This is going to cost you the white out of your eyes to.
I suggest you look into going to the US and do your training there. There are JAA helicopter flight schools in the US and much better opportunities to get a flight instructor job there than anywhere else.
Do some research on your own and pick one way to go and do it sooner than later because, well, you aren't getting any younger...
I have heard of guys starting flying around the age of 40 and making it all the way to a nice heli job. Still anything can be done.
PM me if you like.
Best of luck.
Heli Ice
The Original Whirly
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Bill,
You've got some good advice there. Just one thing no-one's answered yet for you...you can indeed get a Career Development Loan, up to £8000 interest free for two years, and it can be extended for up to another 17 months. The school you're training with needs to have the forms (be an official training provider or whatever term they give it), and you need to be aiming for a CPL...which you are. It's worth getting this, even if you have the cash upfront you can keep the £8000 in the bank and get the interest; every little helps.
Also, if you think you're going to instruct you'll be self-employed, which means you can register for VAT now, and claim it back on all your helicopter training. It helps if either the school you're with, or your accountant, knows about this, as lots of people will tell you it can't be done...do a search on here for recent threads on the subject. But you can do it, the paperwork is easy, it's quite legal, and it will save you 17 and a half% on all your training in the UK!!!!!!
I can't think of anything else to add, except GOOD LUCK...unfortunately unless things change in the helo world you're going to need lots of it.
You've got some good advice there. Just one thing no-one's answered yet for you...you can indeed get a Career Development Loan, up to £8000 interest free for two years, and it can be extended for up to another 17 months. The school you're training with needs to have the forms (be an official training provider or whatever term they give it), and you need to be aiming for a CPL...which you are. It's worth getting this, even if you have the cash upfront you can keep the £8000 in the bank and get the interest; every little helps.
Also, if you think you're going to instruct you'll be self-employed, which means you can register for VAT now, and claim it back on all your helicopter training. It helps if either the school you're with, or your accountant, knows about this, as lots of people will tell you it can't be done...do a search on here for recent threads on the subject. But you can do it, the paperwork is easy, it's quite legal, and it will save you 17 and a half% on all your training in the UK!!!!!!
I can't think of anything else to add, except GOOD LUCK...unfortunately unless things change in the helo world you're going to need lots of it.
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Thanks for all your reponses.
Helinut
I'd found your earlier thread. Oddly enough I was given Simon Spencer Bower's card last week by a 206 owner who had flown with him a couple of years ago. Small world.
Reynoldno1
Am I missing something about winter? - I thought that cold, thick air was good, so long as it wasn't wet!
Roll on July
FlyAnotherDay
Helinut
I'd found your earlier thread. Oddly enough I was given Simon Spencer Bower's card last week by a 206 owner who had flown with him a couple of years ago. Small world.
Reynoldno1
Am I missing something about winter? - I thought that cold, thick air was good, so long as it wasn't wet!
Roll on July
FlyAnotherDay