Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
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Ahh Fellow Irishman<
your post brings very brief memories of the cold, wind and rain of Galway... brrr.. If it is gonna be misrable , I my as well ski....
I think your decision depends on what you want to do with your lic. It is much cheaper to train in the us or overseas. We are taliking thousands of pounds , sorry I mean euros.
If you are looking for good value for thr pound go to (cost of living, traing, exp of instructors) go to NZ several great places to train where you can do it in a reasonable amount of time. (NZ is like a third world country wher they speak english!!)
if you plan on being a professional pilot the us may be the best option. A J1 visa that would let you instruct for a year after you finshed all your ratings.... and build a heap of hours.
Good luck,
RB
Looks like tomorrow is gona be a great powder day for skiing.....
your post brings very brief memories of the cold, wind and rain of Galway... brrr.. If it is gonna be misrable , I my as well ski....
I think your decision depends on what you want to do with your lic. It is much cheaper to train in the us or overseas. We are taliking thousands of pounds , sorry I mean euros.
If you are looking for good value for thr pound go to (cost of living, traing, exp of instructors) go to NZ several great places to train where you can do it in a reasonable amount of time. (NZ is like a third world country wher they speak english!!)
if you plan on being a professional pilot the us may be the best option. A J1 visa that would let you instruct for a year after you finshed all your ratings.... and build a heap of hours.
Good luck,
RB
Looks like tomorrow is gona be a great powder day for skiing.....
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Chris,
I have 20 Hrs logged fixed wing from last year(Aerial in Weston) and want to go on to do my PPL H.
I have looked at both Eirecopter at Weston and European Helicopter Academy at Dunboyne, both schools use different machines(R-22, S300CBi)
EHA has full FTO status if you want to go on and do CPL H, whereas Eircopter are just a RTF.
Still havent made my mind up yet on which one to use.
e-mail me if you want any info.
Regards
Robino
I have 20 Hrs logged fixed wing from last year(Aerial in Weston) and want to go on to do my PPL H.
I have looked at both Eirecopter at Weston and European Helicopter Academy at Dunboyne, both schools use different machines(R-22, S300CBi)
EHA has full FTO status if you want to go on and do CPL H, whereas Eircopter are just a RTF.
Still havent made my mind up yet on which one to use.
e-mail me if you want any info.
Regards
Robino
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Old Man Rotors advice seems to have hit the nail on the head
<<I have found that you can [and you must] choose the school and Instructor that suits you......and not just be allocated an Instructor from the pool.........from my experience, choose the older guy/lady, who may be on the "other end" of his/her career, as they have more to offer than a younger hour builder [not to say there arn't exceptions to this....just generalising].
There are heaps of good quality Instructors in the Industry...........your challenge is to find the one that suits you>>
Can anyone (by private message) offer specific recommendations as to an instructor based either US or UK who fits Old Man Rotor's description above.
<<I have found that you can [and you must] choose the school and Instructor that suits you......and not just be allocated an Instructor from the pool.........from my experience, choose the older guy/lady, who may be on the "other end" of his/her career, as they have more to offer than a younger hour builder [not to say there arn't exceptions to this....just generalising].
There are heaps of good quality Instructors in the Industry...........your challenge is to find the one that suits you>>
Can anyone (by private message) offer specific recommendations as to an instructor based either US or UK who fits Old Man Rotor's description above.
Standto.
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Fixed Wing or Rotary
I am considering the self sponsored route for a CPL/IR and have previously been set on fixed wing flyinging, which I have looked in to quite a lot over the years. However, I have recently been giving thought to a CPL on helicopters and don't know quite as much about this. I am still undecided whether to go the fixed wing or rotary wing career route. Can anyone therefore help answer some of my questions regarding a CPL(H) and careers as a heli pilot.
1. What career opportunities are there for helicopter pilots with the relevant CPL(H) and how do they fair with career opportunities for those with a fixed wing licence?
2. What types of salaries can a helicopter pilot command and thus manage to pay off the loans for training?
3. I am currently thinking of Cabair or OAT as a training school. Are there any others I could be looking at?
4. Does anyone have any particular views or experiences as to the pros and cons of pursuing the rotary wing career route?
5. What can one hope to achieve with a CPL(H)?
Most people I read about or talk to seem fixated on becoming an airline pilot. Granted this would be nice and I wish the very best of luck to those of you who are resolute in achieving this. However, I would be happy with any type of flying as a career and would therefore value any comments any of you have in helping me decide on my career path.
Many thanks.
1. What career opportunities are there for helicopter pilots with the relevant CPL(H) and how do they fair with career opportunities for those with a fixed wing licence?
2. What types of salaries can a helicopter pilot command and thus manage to pay off the loans for training?
3. I am currently thinking of Cabair or OAT as a training school. Are there any others I could be looking at?
4. Does anyone have any particular views or experiences as to the pros and cons of pursuing the rotary wing career route?
5. What can one hope to achieve with a CPL(H)?
Most people I read about or talk to seem fixated on becoming an airline pilot. Granted this would be nice and I wish the very best of luck to those of you who are resolute in achieving this. However, I would be happy with any type of flying as a career and would therefore value any comments any of you have in helping me decide on my career path.
Many thanks.
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As there are very few readers of Wannabes who can answer your questions, I shall move this thread to Rotorheads where you should find some of what you want to know.
Scroggs
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Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
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I spent 9 months looking at both Rotary and FW. Eventually came down on the side of FW. Basically due to the fact that I could sort my CPL/IR, fATPL out for 30K 'cos of my PPL hours. For the equivalent Rotary it would cost total of 70K.
Check out the advert for Bond Helicopters in Flight, talking about ab-initio sponsored scheme. Also try http://www.plh.co.uk costs a few quid but its worth while when looking at spending a large amount on training.
Thats my 2penneth hope it all goes well.
Check out the advert for Bond Helicopters in Flight, talking about ab-initio sponsored scheme. Also try http://www.plh.co.uk costs a few quid but its worth while when looking at spending a large amount on training.
Thats my 2penneth hope it all goes well.
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Okay, since the previous post was advertising a service, I would just like to make a quick comment on the downside of this service. If anyone is aiming to be a professional helicopter pilot, then why pay someone else to tell you the information which is out in the public domain already? Spend some time doing some homework. Why pay more per hour flying than someone else on the same course? If people haven't the common sense to work out what is right for them and what isn't, then maybe they aren't bright enough to be in the industry!
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kissmysquirrel
Rather uncalled for.
Just passing on some life experience that I found helpful.
Pitty some people can't accept it as that. If thats a typical example of a rotorhead comment I'll be off back to my FW hole.
Just passing on some life experience that I found helpful.
Pitty some people can't accept it as that. If thats a typical example of a rotorhead comment I'll be off back to my FW hole.
Unscientific poll of my friends yielded the following results:
RW.....0
FW.....3
Law Degree or Similar......12
RW.....0
FW.....3
Law Degree or Similar......12
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OK, kissmysquirrel may have been a tad blunt, but I'm inclined to agree with the sentiment.
Having made the decision to follow the heli-route, so to speak, I gave some consideration as to how to get some independant advice. I won't mention any company names, but after a chat with them I decided that I could do my own homework without paying someone else (who is NOT truly independant, let's be honest) to do the work for me.
Firstly, try joining an excellent organisation called AOPA - they very kindly answered a number of questions for me and pointed me in the right direction. Secondly, go and chat to the people who provide the training. Despite what the consultants may tell you, people who fly helicopters are generally very nice (generally...) and you can make your own mind up about them with the benefit of a few comparisons. I have flown with large and small companies around the SE while building hours and can recommend a few. Send a private message if you're interested, so I don't upset any fragile egos.
Just a word of warning if you choose the heli-route... it's damned addictive!
DBChopper
Having made the decision to follow the heli-route, so to speak, I gave some consideration as to how to get some independant advice. I won't mention any company names, but after a chat with them I decided that I could do my own homework without paying someone else (who is NOT truly independant, let's be honest) to do the work for me.
Firstly, try joining an excellent organisation called AOPA - they very kindly answered a number of questions for me and pointed me in the right direction. Secondly, go and chat to the people who provide the training. Despite what the consultants may tell you, people who fly helicopters are generally very nice (generally...) and you can make your own mind up about them with the benefit of a few comparisons. I have flown with large and small companies around the SE while building hours and can recommend a few. Send a private message if you're interested, so I don't upset any fragile egos.
Just a word of warning if you choose the heli-route... it's damned addictive!
DBChopper
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Just telling it like it is.
I happened to be on an instructors course with someone who was using a rip off agency. He was paying £5/hour more than the rest of us for the privilege. Does that seem right? Not to me it doesn't. Isn't learning to fly etc expensive enough.
As DB said, most schools are quite happy to talk to people, especially if it looks like you'll give them your business.
I happened to be on an instructors course with someone who was using a rip off agency. He was paying £5/hour more than the rest of us for the privilege. Does that seem right? Not to me it doesn't. Isn't learning to fly etc expensive enough.
As DB said, most schools are quite happy to talk to people, especially if it looks like you'll give them your business.
The Original Whirly
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OK, I'll try to answer your questions. Just so you know, I have a CPL(H) and nearly 300 rotary hours, and I'm about to start an instructors course. I also have a PPL(A) and nearly 200 f/w hours. I'm an...er...older-than-average wannabe, hoping for a bit of part time paid flying, and I''ve managed nearly the whole thing without any debts. But I've been around a while and talked to people and learned a bit, so here goes....
1) Career opportunities. With a CPL(H) and low hours, not a lot, at least in the UK. But that probably applies to f/w as well. Until recently you could get a left hand seat on the North Sea, build up your hours, then go for things like the police, SAR etc. 9/11 meant that the dual qualified airline pilots who'd been laid off went back to the North Sea, and the companies there are now asking for at least an IR, which will cost you around £23,000. And I'm not sure if they'll guarantee you a job even then. Most people are getting 300 rotary hours and an FI rating, and then...? See what happens I think.
2) Salaries. There are people here who know a lot more than I do. But one thing is certain - no helo flying pays as well as the airlines. I think First Officers on the North Sea are getting around £30,000, if you can get there. Instructing pays better - around £40/hr, but you tend to do less hours than in f/w. Anything else I don't know.
3) Training Schools. Ask around when you start, and keep asking. I have no connection with PLH Associates, and I've heard some good things about them from people who've used them, but it will cost you and I don't know if it's worth it - you can find out most of the info yourself.
4) Pros and cons of helos. Only one big pro - helicopter flying is totally wonderful, tremendous fun, ridiculously addictive, and...I love it. Apart from that it pays less, has no equivalent of nice comfortable well paid airline flying, jobs tend to be hard and dirty and uncomfortable and dangerous. In fact there's nothing in its favour...unless you love helicopter flying. Try it and see. If you do, that's what you'll go for. If you don't, forget the whole idea and have a nice comfortable airline career.
5) Achieve with a CPL(H)? I think I've answered that above. Well...total bankruptcy perhaps???
I hope some of that helps. Hopefully you'll get some of the more experienced people answering you as well as bickering among themselves - you never know; miracles happen even on Rotorheads.
1) Career opportunities. With a CPL(H) and low hours, not a lot, at least in the UK. But that probably applies to f/w as well. Until recently you could get a left hand seat on the North Sea, build up your hours, then go for things like the police, SAR etc. 9/11 meant that the dual qualified airline pilots who'd been laid off went back to the North Sea, and the companies there are now asking for at least an IR, which will cost you around £23,000. And I'm not sure if they'll guarantee you a job even then. Most people are getting 300 rotary hours and an FI rating, and then...? See what happens I think.
2) Salaries. There are people here who know a lot more than I do. But one thing is certain - no helo flying pays as well as the airlines. I think First Officers on the North Sea are getting around £30,000, if you can get there. Instructing pays better - around £40/hr, but you tend to do less hours than in f/w. Anything else I don't know.
3) Training Schools. Ask around when you start, and keep asking. I have no connection with PLH Associates, and I've heard some good things about them from people who've used them, but it will cost you and I don't know if it's worth it - you can find out most of the info yourself.
4) Pros and cons of helos. Only one big pro - helicopter flying is totally wonderful, tremendous fun, ridiculously addictive, and...I love it. Apart from that it pays less, has no equivalent of nice comfortable well paid airline flying, jobs tend to be hard and dirty and uncomfortable and dangerous. In fact there's nothing in its favour...unless you love helicopter flying. Try it and see. If you do, that's what you'll go for. If you don't, forget the whole idea and have a nice comfortable airline career.
5) Achieve with a CPL(H)? I think I've answered that above. Well...total bankruptcy perhaps???
I hope some of that helps. Hopefully you'll get some of the more experienced people answering you as well as bickering among themselves - you never know; miracles happen even on Rotorheads.
"Just a pilot"
UNderstand, this is all from a Yanks perspective...
>1. What career opportunities are there for helicopter pilots with the relevant CPL(H) and how do they fair with career opportunities for those with a fixed wing licence?
I don't drive airplanes, but my observation is it's harder to get to an employable level of experience in helos. Once you're a "journeyman" helo pilot and widely employable, the jobs open up-but you're essentially topped out, salarywise. A few go on to specialist skills-longline, ag, etc.-and make decent money, but not comparable to flag carrier airline pay.
2. What types of salaries can a helicopter pilot command and thus manage to pay off the loans for training?
IN the US., the average for-hire line pilot starts at somewhere in the mid-30s. Merit and seniority raises run around 5%, so you'll be a while cutting that financial tail (and eating too).
3. I am currently thinking of Cabair or OAT as a training school. Are there any others I could be looking at?
IN the US, I recommend picking your instructor rather than a particular school, training helo or accepting bids-which are SWAGS anyhow...
4. Does anyone have any particular views or experiences as to the pros and cons of pursuing the rotary wing career route?
If you have to ask, don't do it. 34 years on, and I still love it.
5. What can one hope to achieve with a CPL(H)?
Job satisfaction and years of easy tax returns.
>1. What career opportunities are there for helicopter pilots with the relevant CPL(H) and how do they fair with career opportunities for those with a fixed wing licence?
I don't drive airplanes, but my observation is it's harder to get to an employable level of experience in helos. Once you're a "journeyman" helo pilot and widely employable, the jobs open up-but you're essentially topped out, salarywise. A few go on to specialist skills-longline, ag, etc.-and make decent money, but not comparable to flag carrier airline pay.
2. What types of salaries can a helicopter pilot command and thus manage to pay off the loans for training?
IN the US., the average for-hire line pilot starts at somewhere in the mid-30s. Merit and seniority raises run around 5%, so you'll be a while cutting that financial tail (and eating too).
3. I am currently thinking of Cabair or OAT as a training school. Are there any others I could be looking at?
IN the US, I recommend picking your instructor rather than a particular school, training helo or accepting bids-which are SWAGS anyhow...
4. Does anyone have any particular views or experiences as to the pros and cons of pursuing the rotary wing career route?
If you have to ask, don't do it. 34 years on, and I still love it.
5. What can one hope to achieve with a CPL(H)?
Job satisfaction and years of easy tax returns.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Whirlybird,
IMHO, most of what you posted is along the right lines and good advice except for one thing.
You appear to give the impression that a left hand seat on the north sea qualifies a pilot to carry out police flying or SAR.
Sorry, but that isn't true and never has been. Both of those roles require much more experience.
Best regards,
IMHO, most of what you posted is along the right lines and good advice except for one thing.
You appear to give the impression that a left hand seat on the north sea qualifies a pilot to carry out police flying or SAR.
Sorry, but that isn't true and never has been. Both of those roles require much more experience.
Best regards,
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Forgive me if my figures are out, as I actually gave my handcuffs, bullet proof vest and machine gun ( ) back a while ago, but the CAA minimum hours for police ops (laid down in the PAOM) are something like:
1500 hrs total
500 hrs captain
50 hrs night
A significant amount of low flying.
These are the CAA minima. I think the requirement is also for the time to be on twin engined helis, quite a lot of self improvers don't fly twins before moving to the north sea and that therefore can be a problem on the captaincy time.
It's the last bit that also catches out the north sea chaps.
Some units do require significantly more than this and lay down additional experience requirements, sometimes at least double these figures. However, they are all subject to the usual problems of supply and demand so some units might be flexible, others stand absolutely firm on the minima.
Most units are manned almost entirely by ex-mil pilots as they tend to have more relevant "bread and butter" experience.
Standing by for incoming flak from the north sea area
) back a while ago, but the CAA minimum hours for police ops (laid down in the PAOM) are something like:1500 hrs total
500 hrs captain
50 hrs night
A significant amount of low flying.
These are the CAA minima. I think the requirement is also for the time to be on twin engined helis, quite a lot of self improvers don't fly twins before moving to the north sea and that therefore can be a problem on the captaincy time.
It's the last bit that also catches out the north sea chaps.
Some units do require significantly more than this and lay down additional experience requirements, sometimes at least double these figures. However, they are all subject to the usual problems of supply and demand so some units might be flexible, others stand absolutely firm on the minima.
Most units are manned almost entirely by ex-mil pilots as they tend to have more relevant "bread and butter" experience.
Standing by for incoming flak from the north sea area