Bell 407 down off Queensland coast
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Flungdung - So obviously according to you I am not allowed to have an opinion. I have been involved in this industry more than some of the posters here and get to see things from all corners of the globe, so why shouldnt I input my two cents worth. I got my PPL in helos some years ago and just because I dont have thousands of hours and a CPL or ATPL doesnt mean my opinion doesnt matter. In fact being in my position where I can watch various operations worldwide actually gives me the advantage of being able to compare apples with apples. Look at some of the other posts on this forum, and you say mine arent worth two cents???.
Secondly I dont see where I threatened to leave the forum. Trimpot wanted to make it personal by making the comments he did, then so be it, but he sure as heck can receive it if he wants to dish it out.
Yes I am arrogant outspoken SOB but thats life and will continue to be so. So bottom line, in my opinion, my opinion matters, if you dont think so then so be it. But if people like Trimpot want to attack me then I sure as heck am going to fight back.
Again just my two cents worth.
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Secondly I dont see where I threatened to leave the forum. Trimpot wanted to make it personal by making the comments he did, then so be it, but he sure as heck can receive it if he wants to dish it out.
Yes I am arrogant outspoken SOB but thats life and will continue to be so. So bottom line, in my opinion, my opinion matters, if you dont think so then so be it. But if people like Trimpot want to attack me then I sure as heck am going to fight back.
Again just my two cents worth.
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Australia
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High Nr
You made the point that the Lismore guys would dearly love to move on from the 365 but the $$$ are tight. Don't you think, as I have said, the same applies to CQRESQ. I bet a EC135 would be terriffic but what community based service provider could afford that. Whilst the 365 is dated at least it meets QLD govt specs for night work and was close at hand and affordable by CQRESQ. It wont operate IFR but night VFR as per current requirements.
My reason for concern regarding the direction this thread was heading was due to the level of subjective comment and reactive comment being made which dosn't lend itself to a rational debate based on fact. I have not refered to or been personnaly critical of anyone in particular so I will leave the growing up to those disposed to monosylabic adjectives.
You made the point that the Lismore guys would dearly love to move on from the 365 but the $$$ are tight. Don't you think, as I have said, the same applies to CQRESQ. I bet a EC135 would be terriffic but what community based service provider could afford that. Whilst the 365 is dated at least it meets QLD govt specs for night work and was close at hand and affordable by CQRESQ. It wont operate IFR but night VFR as per current requirements.
My reason for concern regarding the direction this thread was heading was due to the level of subjective comment and reactive comment being made which dosn't lend itself to a rational debate based on fact. I have not refered to or been personnaly critical of anyone in particular so I will leave the growing up to those disposed to monosylabic adjectives.
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So out of all the EMS programs in Australia how many are VFR operations and how many are IFR operations, and that includes the RAAF SAR S-76s.
Everyone has said how important it is that they are getting a twin but can you explain how that relates to the actual cause of the accident if it was some sort of spatial disorientation. Would it still have happened if it had been a twin.
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Everyone has said how important it is that they are getting a twin but can you explain how that relates to the actual cause of the accident if it was some sort of spatial disorientation. Would it still have happened if it had been a twin.
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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I have deleted the offending post.
I'm sure CQRESQ could have had another 407 but they really need a twin and for the money the 365 was a good (and probably the only) choice. Bit of a moot point really as that is what they have got.
Lets hope it leads to a newer machine in the future.
I do love a spirited debate, but maybe 200psi is right about giving it a rest out of respect to the crews and families.
I'm sure CQRESQ could have had another 407 but they really need a twin and for the money the 365 was a good (and probably the only) choice. Bit of a moot point really as that is what they have got.
Lets hope it leads to a newer machine in the future.
I do love a spirited debate, but maybe 200psi is right about giving it a rest out of respect to the crews and families.
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Likewise I have deleted my response. Doesnt do much good for the thread.
I got an email from Andy Carpenters parents a couple of weeks ago and out of respect for them and his fellow workmates will let it rest.
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I got an email from Andy Carpenters parents a couple of weeks ago and out of respect for them and his fellow workmates will let it rest.
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Great debate.....go getum.
I think the salient point here is that 24/7 EMS/SAR operations should be full Dual/SP IFR.
The point in my view is not a multi vs single, but more VFR verses IFR.
And of course IFR will win every time.
The point in my view is not a multi vs single, but more VFR verses IFR.
And of course IFR will win every time.
I posted a while back that when an accident occurs there should be two threads set up - one for those who wish to express their sympathy and concerns, and another to freely debate the accident in order to gain as many possible lessons out of it without offending people connected to the accident.
It looks like this accident could use two threads!
I find it absolutely amazing that, although the cause of the accident has yet to be determined, the QLD government have said that there will no longer be single engine ops on govt contracts at night. Blimey. Is that really true? Who is the expert that they took that advice from? How can a govt department be allowed to react so subjectively and so emotively?
Lastly - I note the complete absence of arguements for NVG. Why do we continue to send out competent pilots like this with one hand tied behind his back? Lets do the maths - NVG upgrade to 407 Vs acquisition and running costs of a multi engine that (unless equiped with an autopilot) does not improve anything about night flying stability/ability. Why not spend the money so he can SEE instead?
Perhaps questions need to be directed to CASA as to why this flight was not equipped with NVG - it has been around for 10 plus years in civilian EMS.
It looks like this accident could use two threads!
I find it absolutely amazing that, although the cause of the accident has yet to be determined, the QLD government have said that there will no longer be single engine ops on govt contracts at night. Blimey. Is that really true? Who is the expert that they took that advice from? How can a govt department be allowed to react so subjectively and so emotively?
Lastly - I note the complete absence of arguements for NVG. Why do we continue to send out competent pilots like this with one hand tied behind his back? Lets do the maths - NVG upgrade to 407 Vs acquisition and running costs of a multi engine that (unless equiped with an autopilot) does not improve anything about night flying stability/ability. Why not spend the money so he can SEE instead?
Perhaps questions need to be directed to CASA as to why this flight was not equipped with NVG - it has been around for 10 plus years in civilian EMS.
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HF
Well said....100% behind you.
And with your words of wisdom you have just identified yourself......I spoke to you at the meeting.!!!
Yes, why indeed was this, and other perfectly disciplined operations around the country, not equipped with NVG’s??
Believe it or not, CASA is presently laying out the legislation to allow civil NVG operations……it will be presented in the form of a CAAP, so operators can expand that into their Operations Manual….expect something within six months.
Giving the extreme limitation of IFR operations in EMS / SAR, together with the dangers of undertaking the same in a VMC scenario, NVG’s can be a perfect alternative.
And with your words of wisdom you have just identified yourself......I spoke to you at the meeting.!!!
Yes, why indeed was this, and other perfectly disciplined operations around the country, not equipped with NVG’s??
Believe it or not, CASA is presently laying out the legislation to allow civil NVG operations……it will be presented in the form of a CAAP, so operators can expand that into their Operations Manual….expect something within six months.
Giving the extreme limitation of IFR operations in EMS / SAR, together with the dangers of undertaking the same in a VMC scenario, NVG’s can be a perfect alternative.
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Red Wine, Do you mean to say that CASA has actually got their head out of the sand and considered NVG's. Are you sure, how do you know this is the case. I hate to sound like I don't believe you, but that brick wall had seemed almost unpenetrable. I do hope it wasn't someones demise that acted as the smelling salts, that would be one hell of a shame.
