KEWR FLOSI3 STAR
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From: Ankh Morpork, DW
KEWR FLOSI3 STAR
On the KEWR FLOSI3 STAR there is a note that reads: Turbojet and turboprop aircraft 250k or greater are authorized.
There are no speeds or speed restrictions on the chart. There are some altitude restrictions.
I'm guessing it mean those aircraft may use the STAR, but when is that note ever needed? Could it be an authorization to exceed 250k below 10,000?http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1709/00285FLOSI.PDF
There are no speeds or speed restrictions on the chart. There are some altitude restrictions.
I'm guessing it mean those aircraft may use the STAR, but when is that note ever needed? Could it be an authorization to exceed 250k below 10,000?http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1709/00285FLOSI.PDF
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From: Ankh Morpork, DW
Do you really need an "authorization" for that? The KEWR DYLIN4 STAR uses the term "applicability." I'm not a lawyer, but it seems those are pretty different terms.
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From: Texas
FAA rules -
ATC can not waive 91.117, the 250 below 10 rule. However 91.117 (d) says if the minimum safe speed of an aircraft exceeds the limits stated in 91.117 the aircraft can be operated at that minimum safe speed. No requirement to request high speed. ATC knows a "heavy" departing on an eight or twelve hour flight will be exceeding 250 when it cleans up. The one exception ( that I know of) is the O'Hare departure in Chicago which requires 250 until ATC approves a higher speed. Clearance Delivery normally asks heavys to "confirm you are able to meet the speed and altitude restrictions of the O'Hare departure." I reply that we'll make the altitudes but are unable the speed, that we'll be climbing at 275 and request they pass that information to Departure.
ATC can not waive 91.117, the 250 below 10 rule. However 91.117 (d) says if the minimum safe speed of an aircraft exceeds the limits stated in 91.117 the aircraft can be operated at that minimum safe speed. No requirement to request high speed. ATC knows a "heavy" departing on an eight or twelve hour flight will be exceeding 250 when it cleans up. The one exception ( that I know of) is the O'Hare departure in Chicago which requires 250 until ATC approves a higher speed. Clearance Delivery normally asks heavys to "confirm you are able to meet the speed and altitude restrictions of the O'Hare departure." I reply that we'll make the altitudes but are unable the speed, that we'll be climbing at 275 and request they pass that information to Departure.
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From: On the Beach
Can't read their collective minds on the differences.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Ankh Morpork, DW
FAA rules -
ATC can not waive 91.117, the 250 below 10 rule. However 91.117 (d) says if the minimum safe speed of an aircraft exceeds the limits stated in 91.117 the aircraft can be operated at that minimum safe speed. No requirement to request high speed. ATC knows a "heavy" departing on an eight or twelve hour flight will be exceeding 250 when it cleans up. The one exception ( that I know of) is the O'Hare departure in Chicago which requires 250 until ATC approves a higher speed. Clearance Delivery normally asks heavys to "confirm you are able to meet the speed and altitude restrictions of the O'Hare departure." I reply that we'll make the altitudes but are unable the speed, that we'll be climbing at 275 and request they pass that information to Departure.
ATC can not waive 91.117, the 250 below 10 rule. However 91.117 (d) says if the minimum safe speed of an aircraft exceeds the limits stated in 91.117 the aircraft can be operated at that minimum safe speed. No requirement to request high speed. ATC knows a "heavy" departing on an eight or twelve hour flight will be exceeding 250 when it cleans up. The one exception ( that I know of) is the O'Hare departure in Chicago which requires 250 until ATC approves a higher speed. Clearance Delivery normally asks heavys to "confirm you are able to meet the speed and altitude restrictions of the O'Hare departure." I reply that we'll make the altitudes but are unable the speed, that we'll be climbing at 275 and request they pass that information to Departure.
I suspect it's just bad writing, but there is the slim possibility that somehow it allows for 250kts below 10k.
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From: On the Beach
True. ATC can't waive, but the Administrator may authorize. And that's the verb on the chart - Turbojet and turboprop aircraft 250k or greater are authorized.
I suspect it's just bad writing, but there is the slim possibility that somehow it allows for 250kts below 10k.
I suspect it's just bad writing, but there is the slim possibility that somehow it allows for 250kts below 10k.
The "Administrator" authorized 280 below 10,000 at Houston quite a few years ago. It was a bad project that sank into the sunset after several months. And, the authorizing language was much more specific than what is written on this Newark procedure.
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From: USA
All the transitions on this STAR begin above 10,000 MSL. They don't want slowpokes going 220 KIAS clogging up the works. All they had to do to make the restriction clearer was to add a single word so that it reads:
"NOTE: ONLY TurboJet and Turboprop aircraft capable of 250 KIAS or greater are authorized."
Instead of " NOTE: TurboJet and Turboprop aircraft capable of 250 KIAS or greater are authorized."
Just a single word can make all the difference.
"NOTE: ONLY TurboJet and Turboprop aircraft capable of 250 KIAS or greater are authorized."
Instead of " NOTE: TurboJet and Turboprop aircraft capable of 250 KIAS or greater are authorized."
Just a single word can make all the difference.
